Prison Mike
Don't drop the soap!
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BP2 is the end of Phase 4. Ant-Man 3 is the start of Phase 5
I’m rewatching Phase 4 films and I have to say it really was a bit of a mess.
I read somewhere online that the main point of this phase was to allow the MCU to expand into all the others areas from the comics from the multiverse to magic to gods to celestials as well as the more grounded stories, meanwhile Feige talked about the phase being about grief.
However the net result has been a mess. I think they would’ve been better off picking one or two of those elements and focusing on them rather than doing everything at once.
So as not to just criticise without offering alternatives this is what I would’ve done.
I would’ve focused on two themes: the fall out from Phases 1-3 and the multiverse.
And here’s how I’d do it….
Black Widow I would’ve had her wake up in the soul universe and used the film to go back over key moments of her life including the Red Room (as depicted in Age of Ultron). It would’ve been more of a psychological drama; a kind of Scrooge/It’s A Wonderful Life meets Red Sparrow meets The Seventh Seal type thing. It also would’ve introduced us to the multiverse because we’d see a different Natasha who grown up in different circumstances and that is how we’d get to meet Yelena.
Shang-Chi basically the same movie but when he’s working as a valet Tony Stark drops off his car. Tony Stark is a playboy, arms dealer. It’s a parallel universe. That one scene puts to bed questions about “where were you for Thanos?” that has plagued every new hero in Phase 4 (who had their powers when Thanos turned up). Speaking of which….
Eternals I wouldn’t have touched it and instead introduced them in Phase 7 or whenever probably as the basis for introducing the Xmen.
So there’s a space for a movie here and I’d probably have either turned Loki into a movie or made Guardians of the Galaxy 3, the Marvels or Ant Man 3 to round those out in this phase - this would’ve kept it sufficiently connected to the previous phases to stop it from becoming disconnected. Any of those movies did or could expand on the multiverse whilst developing established characters and returning us to the “original” universe after Shang-Chi.
On balance I’d probably have gone for GofG as that could’ve also continued Thor’s development without needing to go down the path of Love and Thunder.
Spider-Man and Dr Strange wouldn’t need to change much.
Thor Love and Thunder on balance I’d have folded this into GofG3 and then added one of the other movies above to the slate. Also no gods. It would need to explore the multiverse. That’s the theme we’re building to.
As for the TV shows:
WandaVision: wouldn’t change
The Falcon and the Winter Soldier: also wouldn’t change.
Loki actually would’ve kept it as a TV show.
What if would’ve really tied all this together even better
Hawkeye ditto. No change.
Moon Knight wouldn’t have made it. They needed to have something that built on the above themes rather than introducing gods.
Ms Marvel why not but on only on the basis that the Noor dimension follows the same rules as the rest of the multiverse. The same with Ta Lo in Shang-Chi.
She Hulk again why not but try and tie it back to the multiverse somehow perhaps by having Hulk working on that on side (rather than heading off to space).
These small changes I think would’ve made the phase more connected.
That's a lot of multiverse
I'm glad they didn't go that direction
And I don't know what you're talking about with Shang Chi. He wasn't around for Endgame because he didn't have powers yet, and nobody knew who he was anyway. Thank god that movie wasn't set in an alternate universe, and that they didn't cram Tony Stark in there, even just for a cameo
Well first he was trained in martial arts and could handle himself as well as the non-enhanced humans in the Battle of Earth.
Then there’s his father who had the ten rings. There’s also the issue that his father seemed to be toppling government and changing history at the exact same time as the Winter Soldier/Hydra/Black Widow and whoever else is apparently responsible for JFK in the MCU.
It all starts to grate this many films into the franchise which is why I think the multiverse offered an out.
I’m not sure how one gets too much multiverse. There’d be no need for constant hoping. Shang-Chi would’ve been the exact same film just with a slightly different setting that would have given it space to breath.
This is the issue with so many of the new entrants. They have baggage to overcome whether or not they were powered by the time of the Battle of Earth. For some it works e.g. Ms Marvel but for others it doesn’t e.g. Shang-Chi and definitely for Eternals!
Really? You said in your original post that you felt more of the movies/shows should have dealt with the multiverse. Black Widow, Shang-Chi, She-Hulk, etc...That seems pretty clear cut.I’m not sure how one gets too much multiverse
Is Thanos an Eternal in the MCU? They could easily say he isn’t.
That's a lot of multiverse
I'm glad they didn't go that direction
And I don't know what you're talking about with Shang Chi. He wasn't around for Endgame because he didn't have powers yet, and nobody knew who he was anyway. Thank god that movie wasn't set in an alternate universe, and that they didn't cram Tony Stark in there, even just for a cameo
There are hundreds if not thousands or millions of people in the world who are top shelf hand-to hand fighters. The Avengers never recruited all of them, why would they recruit Shang-Chi? And how would they when he was actively trying to ignore his previous life so that literally no one knew who he was or how good he was.
Also, his father the vague and mysterious international crime lord should have been approached to help fight Thanos? Why? And again, how?
I really don't see any problem, either, with the Ten Rings having an affect on history - since we *already knew that* - without the Ten Rings, there is no Iron Man just for one. The fact that Hydra was manipulating people into a prison state doesn't and shouldn't mean that every major event that happened was entirely under Hydra's control with no outside influence.
This sounds like a list of 'problems' from someone who just doesn't like (the idea of) the movie and is just looking for things to complain about. Certainly it sounds like at the very least, your problem in these areas is entirely down to your own very strange and indefensible expectations of what the movie 'should' be.
And wait, I'm just thinking about this, if Eros and Thanos are brothers, and the Eternals are basically just robots, does that mean Thanos was a robot? The Deviants and Eternals also have no familial relationship, so is MCU Thanos not a deviant? Just an Eternal trying to stop Celestials across the universe from emerging?
Well unless it's an adoption situation somehow, where Eros assumed a life with Titanian parents whose real son was Thanos. Doesn't make much sense that they're actual brothers, since they're space robots, but maybe they were created together and stationed on Titan together
There are hundreds if not thousands or millions of people in the world who are top shelf hand-to hand fighters.
Eternals it was also explained pretty clearly:
"Our orders were, don't do s**t unless deviants are involved"
And wait, I'm just thinking about this, if Eros and Thanos are brothers, and the Eternals are basically just robots, does that mean Thanos was a robot? The Deviants and Eternals also have no familial relationship, so is MCU Thanos not a deviant? Just an Eternal trying to stop Celestials across the universe from emerging?
He was a sufficiently high profile super hero to get his own movie!
Look this really is a matter of opinion but it’s something that has grated the whole way through Phase 4.
Black Widow and possibly my GofG3/Thor, Dr Strange and Spiderman, would probably be the only movies I’d have had universe hoping (I really feel I should get more credit for my idea of using the soul stone to do a reverse origin story!). Shang Chi is the exact same movie except without the baggage.
And look if you feel that strongly about it I’m not going to die in the ditch over it (although the dad killing JFK (I know he didn’t I’m making a hyperbolic point) would need to be looked at it, I just didn’t find it “credible” (credibility measured on the basis of those moments in a superhero movie where you think “come on”)).
What you are calling baggage is you nitpicking a movie wasn't made the way you would have wanted it. That isn't baggage.Shang Chi is the exact same movie except without the baggage.
Well yeah, obviously Shang-Chi has the power of the ten rings now that he is in possession of the ten rings. But that doesn't really have any bearing on whether the Avengers should've recruited him to fight Thanos because he didn't have the rings yet then and was actively hiding his identity.shang chi was able to kill a dragon thing with the rings. so we know he has more than martial arts skill.
Hmm I'd say Phase 4 has more lows than Phase 1 and 2. So for me it can't be called as uneven.phase 3 was an unbelievable run of hits by marvel. they were in a zone. but phase 1 and phase 2 were just as uneven as phase 4 - and with far fewer properties (and not to mention a new medium in tv). i think it's easy to lump them all together but 1 and 2 were not close in quality to phase 3.
Hmm I'd say Phase 4 has more lows than Phase 1 and 2. So for me it can't be called as uneven.