MCU: The Marvel Cinematic Universe Official Discussion - Part 5

[THORin]

Oh, I know, even Brie "ships" it, but I just don't see it happening.

A missed opportunity, I think, for Marvel. Carol/Valkyrie would be a power couple like no other.

 

[InCali]

I don't think Carol is gay, but Valkyrie is supposed to be bi, so I'm not ruling her out. But yeah, as I said, they're probably referring to Eternals.

I'd like to think that any character's sexual orientation wouldn't really be an issue, but, hey, this is Disney, and I think they'll tread lightly. I doubt Tony and Steve will be hooking up any time soon and think they will do "off worlder" characters that are gay or bi first (Valkyrie fits that bill). Personally, I'd prefer they start right here on earth, but doubt that will happen.

I'm reminded of the great Ursula Le Guin's "The Left Hand of Darkness". I really love that book, but haven't read it in decades. It's hard to express in this sort of media without spending more time (and thought), but the bottom line is the story and not gender, sexual orientation, race, etc. Marvel/Disney has certainly moved slowly, but also consistently in the direction of introducing characters who aren't straight, white dudes and that's an accomplishment given the original source material they had to work with. They have a multi-billion dollar franchise and I don't blame them that much for being followers rather than leaders. "Leaders" essentially follow us, so it's on us to lead. We've done okay WRT BP and CM.

Oh....before I jump off my soapbox, I watched Bill Maher last night and was really impressed with Pete Buttigieg. It's so, well, strange to listen to an intelligent, thoughtful, articulate politician. They're out there, but the guy I end up having to listen to most of the time falls strangely short in, at the very least, the thoughtful, articulate aspect of things....

 

[Darkprime]

End Game tickets are on sale at Cineplex in Canada. So jelly.

 

[Xeno]

I wonder why the idea of Steve and Bucky being bi and in a relationship caused so much outrage, even in the face of all evidence given in the films for the possibility, but people are suddenly gung-ho for a relationship between two female characters who have yet to meet.

Actually, strike that. I don't wonder. It's rather obvious.

 

[InCali]

I wonder why the idea of Steve and Bucky being bi and in a relationship caused so much outrage, even in the face of all evidence given in the films for the possibility, but people are suddenly gung-ho for a relationship between two female characters who have yet to meet.

Actually, strike that. I don't wonder. It's rather obvious.

Be....be.....because.....he's CAPTAIN AMERICA (head explodes). LOL.

 

[Detective Conan]

 

[Detective Conan]

Spoiler

From the looks of it, Thanos defeats the Avengers again as we don’t see Ant-Man with them when their flying the Benatar to New Titan. So that likely means Scott factors into the story years later after Thanos has somehow defeated them. Not to mention Tony Stark still hasn’t visibly aged when he’s re-confronting Thanos with Thor & Cap while he has aged considerably when he’s doing the time travel thing standing where the Chiaturi invasion from the first Avengers film took place all those years ago. The question is how does Thanos beat them when they have Carol Danvers?

 

[Marvel united]

Getting my tickets after work

 

[Detective Conan]

Those tickets are selling like hotcakes....

 

[Shuri]

I wonder why the idea of Steve and Bucky being bi and in a relationship caused so much outrage, even in the face of all evidence given in the films for the possibility, but people are suddenly gung-ho for a relationship between two female characters who have yet to meet.

Actually, strike that. I don't wonder. It's rather obvious.

To be fair, most of the people asking for Carol/Valkyrie probably ships Steve and bucky. I like the idea of carol and Valkyrie, but I find it a bit annoying that people are overlooking Maria, the one character that have already shared multiple scenes with Carol and practically raised a kid together. I have no dog in this fight anyway, I'm a multiple shipper.

 

[Shuri]

This movie is going to do serious business.

 

[jolldan]

A missed opportunity, I think, for Marvel. Carol/Valkyrie would be a power couple like no other.

Was Captain Marvel supposed to be gay?

 

[Bach]

Dunno. It's more like people don't believe two girls can be friends without being homo. 21st Century stuff.

 

[THORin]

Was Captain Marvel supposed to be gay?

No. But she could have been, and it would have been amazing.

 

[THORin]

Dunno. It's more like people don't believe two girls can be friends without being homo. 21st Century stuff.

Not true!
Carol and Maria = friends.
Carol and Valkyrie =

 

[Spider-Fan]

I wonder why the idea of Steve and Bucky being bi and in a relationship caused so much outrage, even in the face of all evidence given in the films for the possibility, but people are suddenly gung-ho for a relationship between two female characters who have yet to meet.

Actually, strike that. I don't wonder. It's rather obvious.

For me, I just never read Steve and Bucky's relationship as having those type of vibes, so it would have felt odd to me...pre-CW. I think CW is when you could read them in there more.

 

[jolldan]

No. But she could have been, and it would have been amazing.

Was away to say I couldn't remember any mention of that in the film.

I wonder why the idea of Steve and Bucky being bi and in a relationship caused so much outrage, even in the face of all evidence given in the films for the possibility, but people are suddenly gung-ho for a relationship between two female characters who have yet to meet.

Actually, strike that. I don't wonder. It's rather obvious.

Is this a real thing? I remember a few people made some memes joking about it but I didn't think people actually seriously considered it a possibility. What evidence for this is there?

 

[Xeno]

Was Captain Marvel supposed to be gay?

The Carol Danvers version of Captain Marvel is straight in the comics, but there is a lesbian Captain Marvel. She is Phylla-Vell, the daughter of the original Captain Marvel and a member of the Guardians of the Galaxy. In Phylla, Marvel has a ready-made LGBTQ+ heroine who can and should be added to the MCU.

For me, I just never read Steve and Bucky's relationship as having those type of vibes, so it would have felt odd to me...pre-CW. I think CW is when you could read them in there more.

Steve's extreme behavior regarding Bucky in both TWS and CW was enough to persuade me that their relationship could be interpreted as romantic. But it was statements made by the Russos and Markus & McFeely that really pushed that possibility hard. All four of them stated in various interviews that Steve's love for Bucky was the driving force behind his actions in CW. When discussing the helicopter scene, Joe Russo said that Steve had a "very passionate" motivation to put on that display of strength. That caused many fans to assume that Sharon was in the copter. Steve showed as much passion for Bucky as he did for Peggy, and far more than for Sharon despite the chaste kiss they shared.

All of this is to say that fans who think it plausible that Steve and Bucky are/could become lovers aren't just creating that out of nothing. Viewing the two of them as bi isn't even remotely ridiculous. The subtext is there and could easily become text if Marvel allowed it to.

(BTW, Steve & Peggy are my favorite couple. just ahead of Tony & Pepper. I don't even like Bucky and I can see it. )

Is this a real thing? I remember a few people made some memes joking about it but I didn't think people actually seriously considered it a possibility. What evidence for this is there?

There was actually a "Give Captain America a Boyfriend" campaign a couple of years ago. It arose from the "Give Elsa a Girlfriend" drive among Frozen fans. There was even a Twitter hashtag. The backlash was predictably ferocious.

 

[SirStrangefolk]

The Carol Danvers version of Captain Marvel is straight in the comics, but there is a lesbian Captain Marvel. She is Phylla-Vell, the daughter of the original Captain Marvel and a member of the Guardians of the Galaxy. In Phylla, Marvel has a ready-made LGBTQ+ heroine who can and should be added to the MCU.

And probably will be, as Gunn hinted at "Quasar" before on twitter. I'd imagine she'd be with Mantis rather than Moondragon.

 

[Spider-Fan]

Actually, Mantis would make a lot of sense for a LGBT character. Guardians 2 can be said to hint at that with her telling Drax she is not attracted to him (more with the way she said it, but I forgot exactly how she phrased it off hand).

 

[InCali]

As much as I could care less, I don't see Steve as being bi; at least no more than your sorta typical straight dude is (whatever the hell that means...). I mean, let's face it, straight people can find people of their own sex attractive. I think the only question is how far that attraction goes. Sometimes it goes pretty far and sometimes not. My take on the relationship between Steve and Bucky was more along the lines that Bucky was the big brother until Steve grew up (literally). They have a friendship based on their common decency and many years of trust. Steve is fiercely loyal; especially to someone who had his back for so long. That's it IMO.

Boy, we sure spend a lot of time talking about this. Don't we? I wonder more about how Disney is going to handle introducing characters who are gay or bi going forward than I wonder about who is and isn't.

I was thinking last night about how MCU says goodbye to the original group (if they do). I would say Steve goes back in time and hooks up with Peggy; a happily ever after story brought to you by the time stone or something like that. Thor becomes king and goes back to Asgard with Jane (just kidding about the last part). IM? He retires and acts as a mentor. BW? Honestly, I don't see why they would make a movie about her unless it's her origin story.

 

[InCali]

Actually, Mantis would make a lot of sense for a LGBT character. Guardians 2 can be said to hint at that with her telling Drax she is not attracted to him (more with the way she said it, but I forgot exactly how she phrased it off hand).

That's true. I hadn't thought of that. She also kicks names and takes ass.

 

[THORin]

The Carol Danvers version of Captain Marvel is straight in the comics, but there is a lesbian Captain Marvel. She is Phylla-Vell, the daughter of the original Captain Marvel and a member of the Guardians of the Galaxy. In Phylla, Marvel has a ready-made LGBTQ+ heroine who can and should be added to the MCU.



Steve's extreme behavior regarding Bucky in both TWS and CW was enough to persuade me that their relationship could be interpreted as romantic. But it was statements made by the Russos and Markus & McFeely that really pushed that possibility hard. All four of them stated in various interviews that Steve's love for Bucky was the driving force behind his actions in CW. When discussing the helicopter scene, Joe Russo said that Steve had a "very passionate" motivation to put on that display of strength. That caused many fans to assume that Sharon was in the copter. Steve showed as much passion for Bucky as he did for Peggy, and far more than for Sharon despite the chaste kiss they shared.

All of this is to say that fans who think it plausible that Steve and Bucky are/could become lovers aren't just creating that out of nothing. Viewing the two of them as bi isn't even remotely ridiculous. The subtext is there and could easily become text if Marvel allowed it to.

(BTW, Steve & Peggy are my favorite couple. just ahead of Tony & Pepper. I don't even like Bucky and I can see it. )



There was actually a "Give Captain America a Boyfriend" campaign a couple of years ago. It arose from the "Give Elsa a Girlfriend" drive among Frozen fans. There was even a Twitter hashtag. The backlash was predictably ferocious.

Not to mention Evans and Stan’s vocal support of the idea. I believe there was even an interview with them where Evans said he found the whole relationship with Sharon Carter to be kind of weird, but he loved the idea of Cap and Bucky being together.

 

[jolldan]

The Carol Danvers version of Captain Marvel is straight in the comics, but there is a lesbian Captain Marvel. She is Phylla-Vell, the daughter of the original Captain Marvel and a member of the Guardians of the Galaxy. In Phylla, Marvel has a ready-made LGBTQ+ heroine who can and should be added to the MCU.

There was actually a "Give Captain America a Boyfriend" campaign a couple of years ago. It arose from the "Give Elsa a Girlfriend" drive among Frozen fans. There was even a Twitter hashtag. The backlash was predictably ferocious.

Cool can't say I'd heard of that version of the character be surprised if they introduced her over Monica Rambeau in the sequel with all I have been hearing about her.

I see, did just think it was odd as honestly I have never drawn that conclusion from any of Cap or Bucky's interactions throughout the movies myself personally.
​

As much as I could care less, I don't see Steve as being bi; at least no more than your sorta typical straight dude is (whatever the hell that means...). I mean, let's face it, straight people can find people of their own sex attractive. I think the only question is how far that attraction goes. Sometimes it goes pretty far and sometimes not. My take on the relationship between Steve and Bucky was more along the lines that Bucky was the big brother until Steve grew up (literally). They have a friendship based on their common decency and many years of trust. Steve is fiercely loyal; especially to someone who had his back for so long. That's it IMO.

Best description for how I have always seen the two of them as well.

 

[Spider-Fan]

As much as I could care less, I don't see Steve as being bi; at least no more than your sorta typical straight dude is (whatever the hell that means...). I mean, let's face it, straight people can find people of their own sex attractive. I think the only question is how far that attraction goes. Sometimes it goes pretty far and sometimes not. My take on the relationship between Steve and Bucky was more along the lines that Bucky was the big brother until Steve grew up (literally). They have a friendship based on their common decency and many years of trust. Steve is fiercely loyal; especially to someone who had his back for so long. That's it IMO.

Boy, we sure spend a lot of time talking about this. Don't we? I wonder more about how Disney is going to handle introducing characters who are gay or bi going forward than I wonder about who is and isn't.

I was thinking last night about how MCU says goodbye to the original group (if they do). I would say Steve goes back in time and hooks up with Peggy; a happily ever after story brought to you by the time stone or something like that. Thor becomes king and goes back to Asgard with Jane (just kidding about the last part). IM? He retires and acts as a mentor. BW? Honestly, I don't see why they would make a movie about her unless it's her origin story.

I concur with this