Dark of the Moon Michael Bay has killed Transformers for me

[nogap87]

Heh. The last time I posted in the Batboards I was debating how Nolan's Batman is by far the least impressive. In some ways, I have to suspend my belief for Nolan's Batman more than I have to for the Transformers movies.

 

[roach]

Heh. The last time I posted in the Batboards I was debating how Nolan's Batman is by far the least impressive. In some ways, I have to suspend my belief for Nolan's Batman more than I have to for the Transformers movies.

im surprised you made it out alive...they have turned Nolan into a religion

 

[nogap87]

im surprised you made it out alive...they have turned Nolan into a religion

It really is ridiculous.

 

[Marvin]

Success gets to a hype sections head, when I first started here that was the only placed I browsed.

I haven't been there in years.
(consistently anyways)

 

[Hotwire]

It really is ridiculous.

Hey, at least they're not seeing villains reflected in every shiny surface.

 

[nogap87]

Hey, at least they're not seeing villains reflected in every shiny surface.

That's true. At least some hilarious Photoshop has come from it.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Transformers isn't the brand it was in the 80's.

Which isint relevant to my point.

That 80's movie is a joke by today's standards animation or otherwise.

I disagree, and I know many of fans that say the 86 film was head of its time and hold up pretty well to todays standards, animation or otherwise.

If that exact movie was remade today it would be pretty much be ignored. That's why beast wars worked so well, it took the old and improved upon it. But even that got old.

I never suggest they remake the old film, so I dont see your point.

The new films do anything but repeat the problems of the past

Week characterization, week plots, poor writting, poor continuity.....yeah, anything but repeat the problems of the past.

 

[def28]

The 80s movie is still awesome, the animation totally still holds up for a movie made almost 30 years ago and it kicks the s*** out of Beast Wars.

 

[Ipodman]

I've always been a Beast Machines fan... watching it now, I realise how simple the animation was. O.O The voice acting is awesome tho. Voice acting on any Transformers is awesome really

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I disagree, and I know many of fans that say the 86 film was head of its time and hold up pretty well to todays standards, animation or otherwise.

Yeah, I'd imagine that's just what fans would say. Just like fans thought it held up pretty well in 1986 while everyone else thought it was junk. I personally love it, but I try not to think too much about it. It's plot is far weaker than anything Bay has done thus far, and has far many more plotholes than Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen. It has an unintentional dark tone to it which is usually is abscent from American animation. You have to have some balls to kill off a character like Optimus Prime in front of a bunch of five year olds. It's ironic that a committee decision to kill off an old toyline on screen produced one of the more strikingly brutal moments in children's television. Optimus Prime's death defined that movie, and really gave it uniqueness and a nostalgia factor that can't be denied. That said, I'd imagine the five year olds who grew up watching Bay rape some G1 fan's childhood will have the same warm feeling about his movie(s) and we do about TFTM.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

I've always been a Beast Machines fan... watching it now, I realise how simple the animation was. O.O The voice acting is awesome tho. Voice acting on any Transformers is awesome really

G1 and BW/BM had the best voice acting by far. G1 routinely had a strong cast, which really made that show and I probably wouldn't have been able to watch it without them. BW/BM was just perfect. The Armada Trilogy was horrifying, in large part due to the rushed script. Transformers Animated was well cast, but in some cases I found certain voices annoying.

Voice acting rank
1) G1 (voice acting owned that show)
2) Beast Wars
3) Beast Machines (lower for some odd characterizations)
4) Transformers Prime (what little I've seen)
5) Animated
6) Armada Trilogy (much further down the list at 6)
7) RiD
8) Star TV Dub (seriously, look this up, it's unintentionally hilarious)

 

[Marvin]

Which isint relevant to my point.

I disagree, and I know many of fans that say the 86 film was head of its time and hold up pretty well to todays standards, animation or otherwise.

It may have been ahead of it's time but not anymore. They are entitled to their opinion. The same could be said about the new movies but that would be another opinion from another fan I suppose.

I personally take beast wars over anything produced in the 80's, same with TF prime. In story and in animation.

I never suggest they remake the old film, so I dont see your point.

The point is that many a fan(boy)...probably all of them, would shout from the top of the tallest mountain on earth that the 86 film is superior to the 2007 film and they would mean it. However, if it is superior then by definition releasing it now as opposed to the new one would/could/should yield better results.

The old film has been surpassed by the times. It would be the same if they released snow white for the first time in today's modern society, it mostly likely wouldn't resonate with what today's evolved audience is looking for in a theater experience.

Now, there is such a thing as a classic. I have a feeling that if you did the same experiment with Gone with the Wind and the new Aniston Romantic Comedy, one would be the clear winner, but with the TF movies it just isn't so. If you dressed Snow White up with a current cgi animation, the problem still stands that it was made for an earlier time with a specific audience in mind. NOTE today's animated features are sold to a much wider demographic. The New TF isn't just for who it was in the 80's, however it still has them in mind.

Week characterization, week plots, poor writting, poor continuity.....yeah, anything but repeat the problems of the past.

yes you have a point, however that's just inherent to the product. You won't be getting Gosford Park out of this material, and if you tried, you'd change the product in a way that would have fanboys crying for bay's resurrection.

Hasbro wanted a fun summer movie made 20 years ago just as they did today, and they have gotten one on both counts. And with that, a lot of the mistakes you pointed out and in the context of a hollywood production have and will always occur.

However, the mistakes I was referring to were the ones inherent to making genre films for a genre audience. See most star trek films that were made and remade before the newest one that made it for a different audience.

 

[Marvin]

The 80s movie is still awesome, the animation totally still holds up for a movie made almost 30 years ago and it kicks the s*** out of Beast Wars.

season one of beast wars, and maybe into season 2.
but the puck stops there.

As far as traditional animation is concerned I'd say it lasted up until some of the mid 90's TV animated shows...Xmen/Spiderman.

Most anime even of that period surpasses it in alot of aspects. As far as character animation, it was hardly disney.

 

[CEREBRAL....]

If there were fan boys for the original nursery rhyme, I'm sure they b@#ch and moan about all the changes too. On top of that they would hate the teen angst imbued into the concept in order to connect to the new target audience and say things like, the original wasn't about teen angst it was about ...

and thus the dilemma that is adapting source material that is > decade old.

since there isn't and completely ludricrous to think there would be fanboys for a nursery rhyme that makes this point null. Plus my point of bring up the nursery rhyme/movie wasn't from the stand point of fan boys reactions but from the fact that anything could be made into a dramatic, comcial or action film.....


this whole thread or the reactions ot this thread, is more to the mistakes that were made and even admitted by the director. So anyone whether they were G1 fans or not, more then have right to voice, or create a thread about their issues with a M.Bay TF film, if you like it, then you like it. No harm in that.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

It may have been ahead of it's time but not anymore. They are entitled to their opinion. The same could be said about the new movies but that would be another opinion from another fan I suppose.

I personally take beast wars over anything produced in the 80's, same with TF prime. In story and in animation.

Amen. Children's cartoons are probably a tad more sophisticated these days but by and large cartoons are cartoons. Transformers fans from the 80s, the era I was first exposed to, tend to side heavily with G1. This was the same crowd that screamed "TRUK NOT MUNKEE" when Beast Wars came out, and claimed the show was raping the franchise worse than Megatron raped the world of its resources. We all saw how that turned out.

 

[Optimus_Prime_]

yes you have a point, however that's just inherent to the product. You won't be getting Gosford Park out of this material, and if you tried, you'd change the product in a way that would have fanboys crying for bay's resurrection.

This is exactly my point. It's a give and take. If you want a dead on accurate interpretation of Transformers as it was in G1, you're going to put up with a lot of silly.

This:

Is much more suited for today's audience than this...

I think both are great in their own way, but they cater to the audience(s) that existed during that time.

People wince now when they see the computers in the movie Alien or 2001: A Space Odyessy but at the time they seemed to work. Same logic applies here. Optimus Prime's design and story probably seemed at lot less silly in 1984 because it was new and the audience expectations were different. Now, however, much of what was cool and new seems ridiculous.

 

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

Yeah, I'd imagine that's just what fans would say. Just like fans thought it held up pretty well in 1986 while everyone else thought it was junk.

Which can be said for just about every film/series thast enjoys a cult like following.

It has an unintentional dark tone to it which is usually is abscent from American animation.

That dark tone you speak of was very much intentional.

I'd imagine the five year olds who grew up watching Bay rape some G1 fan's childhood will have the same warm feeling about his movie(s) and we do about TFTM.

no doubt

The point is that many a fan(boy)...probably all of them, would shout from the top of the tallest mountain on earth that the 86 film is superior to the 2007 film and they would mean it. However, if it is superior then by definition releasing it now as opposed to the new one would/could/should yield better results.

Again, since I made no such claim I'm not sure of your point addressing such a comment twards me.

yes you have a point, however that's just inherent to the product.

Beast Wars,Beast Machines , the modern comics and even some of the original G1 comics prove that statement wrong.

Now, that not to say there werent some examples of bad characters/plots/writing in all of them, but its certainly not inherent to the product as a whole.

Simplely put, they could have done a far better job.

 

[Marvin]

since there isn't and completely ludricrous to think there would be fanboys for a nursery rhyme that makes this point null. Plus my point of bring up the nursery rhyme/movie wasn't from the stand point of fan boys reactions but from the fact that anything could be made into a dramatic, comcial or action film.....


this whole thread or the reactions ot this thread, is more to the mistakes that were made and even admitted by the director. So anyone whether they were G1 fans or not, more then have right to voice, or create a thread about their issues with a M.Bay TF film, if you like it, then you like it. No harm in that.

That's fair to a point. My goal has always been to address the ill conceived target of all the hate. For one Any film this big with the exception of(maybe) a James Cameron production is made by committee.

you know the same committee we all love to blame for Iron Man 2. So the title of the thread is implicitly wrong..and moreover because this type of film would have been made either way, it's because of the very devil we all love to hate that the "only redeeming qualities these particular films have" are even present. "wow pretty movie, make lots of money"

the red riding hood statement was hypthetical, if there were fanboys, than their arguments would look as silly as the ones made by TF fans.
"We want a more faithful adaptation, one that doesn't cater to the popular teen audience." "since when does red riding hood have teen angst???"

If the only argument made by fanboys were of the nature of story structure and development, than you'd run into opposition such as what Optimus here has been putting forth, but it would garner my appreciation to a degree. However it's not.

for TF haters it's "I miss the blocky designs." "I hate the humans" "I hate jokes in my movies." "I hate a camera that isn't set on a tripod" Granted not all people hate it for these reasons but that's pretty much what got me into this particular thread.

The worst is when original TF fans along with society laugh at how silly these movies are, never thinking about how just a few years ago, society was still laughing at the silly toy commercials that this product was. But now that bay and co have put it on the big screen aint it cool fanboys can belittle silly explosions and over the top story lines, but look cool doing it.

no harm done.

 

[def28]

season one of beast wars, and maybe into season 2.
but the puck stops there.

As far as traditional animation is concerned I'd say it lasted up until some of the mid 90's TV animated shows...Xmen/Spiderman.

Most anime even of that period surpasses it in alot of aspects. As far as character animation, it was hardly disney.

Well Beast Wars and TFPrime are hardly pixar. The 86 flick is not the best looking anime but its far from the worst and personally I think it holds up fine for what Transformers was in the 80s.
I prefer the traditional to the cg but thats just my taste. Beast wars looks like a rejected video game to me through the whole series. Story development wise I do think it is superior then the original cartoon. I still prefer my cartoons, comics, video games and films to be G1 based.

 

[CEREBRAL....]

That's fair to a point. My goal has always been to address the ill conceived target of all the hate. For one Any film this big with the exception of(maybe) a James Cameron production is made by committee.
.

well you're lumping anyone or all of us in as one group, that's wrong. If your addressing me, then address me. cause for one, i dont share every view that the next person, or fanboy or whatever label you want to label them as shares, nor am i a hater, i have to right to dislike what is in front my eyes and if others share my similiar view they have right to as well. Again you like the movie, fine.

Are you really gonna sit here and try to address or switch anyone's "ill conceived" views of this film?( you think thier views are ill conceived that's just your opinon) If so, you are fighting a never ending battle. and you are no more right or wrong then the next person who doesn't like the film. again I am of no committee, community or group. I do though share some of the same issues as others had and since the director his self has notices those issues such as others, then you or anyone on this board don't have the right to make it a "fanboy" issue, "G1 fanboy" , and/or "haters" issues.....point blank.

you know the same committee we all love to blame for Iron Man 2. So the title of the thread is implicitly wrong..and moreover because this type of film would have been made either way, it's because of the very devil we all love to hate that the "only redeeming qualities these particular films have" are even present. "wow pretty movie, make lots of money"

the red riding hood statement was hypthetical, if there were fanboys, than their arguments would look as silly as the ones made by TF fans.
"We want a more faithful adaptation, one that doesn't cater to the popular teen audience." "since when does red riding hood have teen angst???"

.

i'm not of that same committee, cause as you can see, i'm not on here often and i dont live and die by the films this website comments on. If a director did not do a good job, i'm gonna say so, and i dont care if it's M.Bay or J. Cameron. and this statement "if there were fanboys, than their arguemtns would look as silly as the ones made by TF fans" is wrong by you.... what your saying is, if our opinions are not the same as yours then we have to be wrong. again you are no more right or wrong then the person who opposes your view, and since the director has admitted his issues with the films, the same as these "fan boys" you speak of, you can not think your side is right and everyone else is wrong. Because obviously that's not the case.

 

[roach]

the point he was trying to make which you completely missed was its not all Michael Bay's fault...yet he is the only one people are railing on and on about...decision made for these movies were made by a committee that MB is only one of...Spielberg is also a part of the committee as well as execs from Hasbro.
Yet all the blame for bad product goes to Michael Bay.

 

[CEREBRAL....]

the point he was trying to make which you completely missed was its not all Michael Bay's fault...yet he is the only one people are railing on and on about...decision made for these movies were made by a committee that MB is only one of...Spielberg is also a part of the committee as well as execs from Hasbro.
Yet all the blame for bad product goes to Michael Bay.

they all screwed it up, are you happy? What difference does it make whose fault it is...m.bay's name is attached to it (you really think Spielberg actually put any major input to this movie??? )...why do anyone need to run down a list of everyone involved. M.bay supporters need to stop acting so sensitive to this man. TF 1 and TF 2, for me werent good. *insert* whatever name you want there....screwed it up.

bad robot designs, poor character development, horrible comedy, miss use at times of the source material....etc

 

[nogap87]

Well Beast Wars and TFPrime are hardly pixar. The 86 flick is not the best looking anime but its far from the worst and personally I think it holds up fine for what Transformers was in the 80s.
I prefer the traditional to the cg but thats just my taste. Beast wars looks like a rejected video game to me through the whole series. Story development wise I do think it is superior then the original cartoon. I still prefer my cartoons, comics, video games and films to be G1 based.

Pixar? It's not even Clone Wars.

I give the 86 movie props for having a really cool OP vs Megatron fight. The animation was really good for what it was: the introduction of new characters/toys.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

for TF haters it's "I miss the blocky designs." "I hate the humans" "I hate jokes in my movies." "I hate a camera that isn't set on a tripod" Granted not all people hate it for these reasons but that's pretty much what got me into this particular thread.

I'm fine with jokes that aren't gross or racist.

 

[Hotwire]

This is exactly my point. It's a give and take. If you want a dead on accurate interpretation of Transformers as it was in G1, you're going to put up with a lot of silly.

What are you talking about? G1 didn't have any silly in it! I mean, if someone were to watch this vidoe and skip ahead to 2:40, they wouldn't see silly stuff at all!