The Dark Knight Nicholson on Ledger playing the Joker

[DaddyGrayson]

Seriously, if I didn't know it was Heath, after the WSS picture and audio clip, I would've been like "Who the hell is playing the Joker!?"

 

[Bat-Mite]

Jack may be a better actor, but Ledger's work as Joker is already showing that he's completely becoming the character. Even in '89, Nicholson's personality and voice to took me out of his performance because they're just to recognizable. With Ledger, when I heard his Joker audio bits, I simply could not picture Ledger and that voice in the same body, which proves that he's created something extraordinary with this character.

As well as the more faithful take the Nolan Brothers are going with this Joker, signs are already pointing to Ledger being the victor, and Nicholson...just an old man.

You're gonna get flamed up the wazoo for saying this, but IMO it's very true, and I've just gotta say AMEN!

 

[MiniBond]

Seriously, if I didn't know it was Heath, after the WSS picture and audio clip, I would've been like "Who the hell is playing the Joker!?"

The fact is that I never envisioned such a low, deep voice for such a character....very scary, especially the last time with the pic in the car !

 

[Mr. Socko]

Jack may be a better actor, but Ledger's work as Joker is already showing that he's completely becoming the character. Even in '89, Nicholson's personality and voice to took me out of his performance because they're just to recognizable. With Ledger, when I heard his Joker audio bits, I simply could not picture Ledger and that voice in the same body, which proves that he's created something extraordinary with this character.

As well as the more faithful take the Nolan Brothers are going with this Joker, signs are already pointing to Ledger being the victor, and Nicholson...just an old man.

I thought his personality in Batman '89 was perfect for the Joker and I've never really had a problem with his voice or age at the time either. But hey, I thought Nicholson was perfect in the movie so I might just be being biased here.

 

[ThatDamnNinja]

You're gonna get flamed up the wazoo for saying this, but IMO it's very true, and I've just gotta say AMEN!

If he's gonna get flamed out the wazoo for saying that, let's see what people think of this:

Heath Ledger is a better actor than Jack Nicholson.

There. I said it. That's my honest belief, and I think that when both of their careers are over, history were shine in Ledger's favor. Sure, comparing the two in such a way may seem like heresy now, since Jack is so old and respected, and we've only seen a very small portion of Ledger's serious acting, but let's look at it critically:

Everything Jack does is distinctly Jack. He does well with his roles, but every role he does is basically a variation on himself. He is incapable of seperating himself from the character. When you see Nicholson perform, you basically know what you're getting.

Ledger? Ledger becomes the character. His performance in Brokeback Mountain was utterly convincing (and heartbreaking), and there was nothing about his performance (short of the fact that you could look at his face and know it was him) to suggest that it was Heath Ledger. In that movie, he is the character. From the looks of it, it'll be the same way with I'm Not There and The Dark Knight. All three of those performances will be totally distinct; completely different characters, different people. And he's still young. He's only 28. It's only going to get better from here.

 

[DaddyGrayson]

I thought his personality in Batman '89 was perfect for the Joker and I've never really had a problem with his voice or age at the time either. But hey, I thought Nicholson was perfect in the movie so I might just be being biased here.

I totally agree that Nicholson was perfect for that movie. There is nothing wrong with Nicholson's performance, but it does look like Ledger's gonna top him. But it will definately be a DIFFERENT type of Joker.

 

[gwynplaine]

I totally agree that Nicholson was perfect for that movie. There is nothing wrong with Nicholson's performance, but it does look like Ledger's gonna top him. But it will definately be a DIFFERENT type of Joker.

Yeah, It's almost like they're playing two different characters.

 

[CorpusBlack]

Heath Ledger is a better actor than Jack Nicholson.

I disagree. However Heath still has a lot of mileage left to surpass Jack. I do give Heath an edge though, as far as diversity in his roles. The second half of Jack's career has been plagued with Jack just being Jack. It's the first half of his career that made him great IMO.

 

[DaddyGrayson]

If he's gonna get flamed out the wazoo for saying that, let's see what people think of this:

Heath Ledger is a better actor than Jack Nicholson.

There. I said it. That's my honest belief, and I think that when both of their careers are over, history were shine in Ledger's favor. Sure, comparing the two in such a way may seem like heresy now, since Jack is so old and respected, and we've only seen a very small portion of Ledger's serious acting, but let's look at it critically:

Everything Jack does is distinctly Jack. He does well with his roles, but every role he does is basically a variation on himself. He is incapable of seperating himself from the character. When you see Nicholson perform, you basically know what you're getting.

Ledger? Ledger becomes the character. His performance in Brokeback Mountain was utterly convincing (and heartbreaking), and there was nothing about his performance (short of the fact that you could look at his face and know it was him) to suggest that it was Heath Ledger. In that movie, he is the character. From the looks of it, it'll be the same way with I'm Not There and The Dark Knight. All three of those performances will be totally distinct; completely different characters, different people. And he's still young. He's only 28. It's only going to get better from here.

I agree with the fact that Ledger is great. And hopefully one day he will outshine Jack. Jack is consistent though, and does essentially play the same type of character. There are few roles out there that REALLY differentiate, but Jack is a great actor nonetheless.

 

[CorpusBlack]

Yeah, It's almost like they're playing two different characters.

And that's what most people don't seem to be getting. This debate is tiresome and pointless at this point anyway, as we really won't know anything until July.

 

[DaddyGrayson]

Yeah, It's almost like they're playing two different characters.

Agreed. To a lesser extent, look at Bale and Keaton. I sometimes feel like they are playing two different characters. Burton's movies were great. I loved Begins and thought it was the best Batman movie to date. But Bale and Keaton played the character much different than each other. Keaton was great. Bale was great. I thought Bale was better, simply because I love that version of the character better. Can't wait to see Ledger's Joker.

 

[gwynplaine]

I read that Jack's inspiration was Bugs Bunny and Heath supposedly took some pointers from Alex Delarge and Sid Vicious, so yeah those are two very different takes on that magnificent character.

 

[Mr. Socko]

I totally agree that Nicholson was perfect for that movie. There is nothing wrong with Nicholson's performance, but it does look like Ledger's gonna top him. But it will definately be a DIFFERENT type of Joker.

I agree this will definitely be a different type of Joker, but for me, I doubt Heath will surpass Nicholson because the Jack version of '89 is my third favorite version of the character, the first being The Killing Joker and the second being the Man Who Laughs. I'm sure Ledger will be great, but he's going in a completely different direction, the thing is, I prefer the direction Jack went.

Agreed. To a lesser extent, look at Bale and Keaton. I sometimes feel like they are playing two different characters. Burton's movies were great. I loved Begins and thought it was the best Batman movie to date. But Bale and Keaton played the character much different than each other. Keaton was great. Bale was great. I thought Bale was better, simply because I love that version of the character better. Can't wait to see Ledger's Joker.

And conversely, I think Bale and Keaton both did great, but I prefer the direction Bale's version of Batman/Wayne went.

 

[DaddyGrayson]

I read that Jack's inspiration was Bugs Bunny and Heath supposedly took some pointers from Alex Delarge and Sid Vicious, so yeah those are two very different takes on that magnificent character.

Bugs Bunny? Really?

 

[gwynplaine]

Bugs Bunny? Really?

I read it on one of the threads and it did actually ring a bell. Bugs had a pretty anarchic punk rock vibe for the time (he was modelled himself after Groucho Marx another wonderful trouble maker).

 

[Mr. Socko]

Bugs Bunny? Really?

I'm quite sure his inspiration was from the comics, as that's what he says on the B'89 DVD.

 

[gwynplaine]

I'm quite sure his inspiration was from the comics, as that's what he says on the B'89 DVD.

Well he could have multiple inspirations, just like Depp basing Sparrow off of Keith Richards and Pepe le phew.

 

[The Guard]

You are all taking Jack Nicholson way, way, WAY too seriously with these comments.

Just watched BATMAN last night. Nicholson did quite a bit with very little in terms of good dialogue and script. I'll agree that Ledger seems to have less recognizeable/extreme mannerisms than Jack Nicholson, but that may work against him in the final tally. Because it's those mannerisms that have endeared Jack Nicholson to people over the years. And his use of them in his acting.

Regardless, what has Heath Ledger ever done that compares to Jack's greatest work? I wasn't impressed with his work in BROKEBACK. Mumbling and playing "detached but interested" did not add up to an amazing performance in my mind. To date, the best I've seen Ledger "act" outside BROKEBACK has been in THE FOUR FEATHERS (which was a fairly standard historical action role) and THE BROTHERS GRIMM where he finally broke free of his sullen, macho mannerisms and really inhabited a character. Not a great movie, but a heck of a performance from him.

THE DARK KNIGHT may well be the film that makes people realize he can flat act. But until then...I just don't see it. He was very good in BROKEBACK, but it was nothing illuminating.

I don´t think of it as a "different kind of voice", it´s a deep kinda raspy voice in all situations, just a slightly higher or lower pitch in each situation, when you´re doing a raspy voice it´s probably hard to keep the pitch always the same anyway. I notice it, but doesn´t bother me.

If the tones and pitches are different, then it's a different voice.

And the stairway scene there´s a greater sense of urgency, Rachel´s life is in danger, it´s not the same situation as in the house stairway talk.

Then why does his "urgency" voice in the stairwell sound different than his "urgency" voice in the car with Rachel, or at the end of the movie in the Narrows?

And I don´t even know why you went into this "deep" thing, it has nothing to do with the voice topic - or at least you weren´t replying to anyone far as I can tell. What´s "Deep" can mean a lot of different things for different people anyway.

True. For instance, since everything is subjective, I can say that BEGINS has no depth at all and be right because that's how I feel about things.

(Note: I do not actually feel this way about things).

 

[batmaluco]

 

[FVD]

I personally think that Jack Nicholson is an overrated actor. He's pretty much the same in every movie ala John Wayne. Granted he's done some great films in the past but he just doesn't blow me away like Led Zeppelin even.

Heath is gonna be great as the Joker. Can't wait...

 

[gwynplaine]

I personally think that Jack Nicholson is an overrated actor. He's pretty much the same in every movie ala John Wayne. Granted he's done some great films in the past but he just doesn't blow me away like Led Zeppelin even.

Heath is gonna be great as the Joker. Can't wait...

John Wayne was an awesome actor, just watch Rio Bravo and the searchers, two very different characters and performances.
John Wayne Gacy, that's another story but more closely related to the Joker.

 

[contemporarydog]

I disagree. However Heath still has a lot of mileage left to surpass Jack. I do give Heath an edge though, as far as diversity in his roles. The second half of Jack's career has been plagued with Jack just being Jack. It's the first half of his career that made him great IMO.

Yes, I think people should remember his earlier performances which were very varied - e.g. the rather mild-mannered character in Easy Rider.

Basically he then did One flew over the cuckoo's nest, which was superb, but after that every character he did was just trading on that, acting 'wacky'.

 

[hegele]

If he's gonna get flamed out the wazoo for saying that, let's see what people think of this:

Heath Ledger is a better actor than Jack Nicholson.

There. I said it. That's my honest belief, and I think that when both of their careers are over, history were shine in Ledger's favor. Sure, comparing the two in such a way may seem like heresy now, since Jack is so old and respected, and we've only seen a very small portion of Ledger's serious acting, but let's look at it critically:

Everything Jack does is distinctly Jack. He does well with his roles, but every role he does is basically a variation on himself. He is incapable of seperating himself from the character. When you see Nicholson perform, you basically know what you're getting.

Ledger? Ledger becomes the character. His performance in Brokeback Mountain was utterly convincing (and heartbreaking), and there was nothing about his performance (short of the fact that you could look at his face and know it was him) to suggest that it was Heath Ledger. In that movie, he is the character. From the looks of it, it'll be the same way with I'm Not There and The Dark Knight. All three of those performances will be totally distinct; completely different characters, different people. And he's still young. He's only 28. It's only going to get better from here.

how can you say he becomes completely different characters when you've only seen one of his films? What else did you see him in? 10 Things I hate About You?

I really hope Ledger knocks the role out of the park. I think he is a gifted actor, but I really believe many people here are complimenting Ledger on what they want him to do with the character as opposed to what he is going to do. We literally have NO idea how he is approaching the Joker outside of a few quotes, two sound bites and a handful of random pictures. We know he is serious in his approach, thats it.

I think people get confused with the celebrity of Nicholson and his performances. Jake Gites from Chinatown is no way similar to Melvin in As Good as It Gets. He is one of the greatest performers of our time and just because you get your pants in a knot in your excitement for how great you hope The Dark Knight will be doesn't give you a free pass to dismiss an actor who invests more in a role than nearly anyone else including Ledger.

 

[gwynplaine]

Yes, I think people should remember his earlier performances which were very varied - e.g. the rather mild-mannered character in Easy Rider.

Basically he then did One flew over the cuckoo's nest, which was superb, but after that every character he did was just trading on that, acting 'wacky'.

The passenger, carnal knowledge, the last detail, 5 easy pieces, marvin gardens, the shining etc... very different performances, up until Schmidt or the pledge, also very different and actually pretty subdued. Jack is the man, he made some s*****y films where he was just cruising on his Jackness, every career contain mistakes but not every one has that kind of track record or longevity.

 

[Mr. Socko]

You are all taking Jack Nicholson way, way, WAY too seriously with these comments.

Just watched BATMAN last night. Nicholson did quite a bit with very little in terms of good dialogue and script. I'll agree that Ledger seems to have less recognizeable/extreme mannerisms than Jack Nicholson, but that may work against him in the final tally. Because it's those mannerisms that have endeared Jack Nicholson to people over the years. And his use of them in his acting.

I thought he did fantastic, Jack had the best lines in Batman'89.