The Dark Knight Rises Nolan...add Robin!!!!!!

[Katsuro]

Batman needs to be a lone hero. You can have a kid in the house. An orphan he helps raise. You can't have a buddy those goes out fighting crime with him no matter the age.

In other words, Batman shouldn't be portrayed as he has been for a good 95% of his history? Throw that out, all that matters is those first couple years, huh?

Seriously, Batman has had more sidekicks and partners than anyone. Not only has he had a handful of sidekicks, but lets not forget The Brave and the Bold (soon to be a Cartoon Network show) where it was about Batman teaming up with different superheroes.

I swear, it's like some people see a few movies, read Year One and The Long Halloween, and act like they know all about Batman.

 

[Brisco]

In other words, Batman shouldn't be portrayed as he has been for a good 95% of his history? Throw that out, all that matters is those first couple years, huh?

Seriously, Batman has had more sidekicks and partners than anyone. Not only has he had a handful of sidekicks, but lets not forget The Brave and the Bold (soon to be a Cartoon Network show) where it was about Batman teaming up with different superheroes.

I swear, it's like some people see a few movies, read Year One and The Long Halloween, and act like they know all about Batman.

LOL! You hit the nail on the head.

JDG

 

[little kon-el]

I heard a lot of people (Chris Nolan included), note that Robin wouldn't work in the current Batman movie franchise. They state the following as being the main reasons:

1. It is unrealistic and dangerous to have a teenage kid as a sidekick because he'll just get harmed.

2. There is a homo-erotic element that cannot be denied once you bring a "live action Robin" into the scene.

3. No one would let Bruce Wayne adopt a young kid, especially since Bruce Wayne apparently burnt his own house down for no reason.

4. The movies are dark and noirish. The introduction of a young ward makes it lighter and campy.

While I understand these points, I think Robin can be a boon to this movie franchise, as long as they make him a "partner" and not just a sidekick. Note how DC sidestep people disliking Tim Drake: they made him his own character and gave him responsibilities that weren't just being the brightly colored target to Batman's suit.

My idea would be to combine several different Robin elements into the story, so you get a general sense of how to make this work for Batman.

1) Make Robin's parents a part of the story. Part of the reason why Tim Drake works is that you really got to know Tim's parents. Also, it harkens back to Jason Todd's original origin story, where Batman hired the Todds as investigators. My notion is that the latest Batman hires the Graysons (a family of escape artist acrobats ala Cirque de Solei/David Copperfield) to help him learn the fine art of escaping and acrobatics. The Graysons think that Wayne is just hiring them because he's a rich playboy that has a lot of money to burn, but really he's hiring them because he wants to learn their tricks.

2) Bring Robin's tragedy to home when things go bad. The Graysons get killed because of their connection with Batman (maybe some villain finds out who Batman is or something like that). Make the tragedy at the circus, where Bruce Wayne is attending. He feels that it is his responsibility to take young Dick in because his parents left him guardianship of Dick Grayson (that way, you have a more logical progression than just the state awarding Dick above any biological parents).

3) Give this part a real "Dark Victory" feel to the story. Dick Grayson is at the house and he's not quite sure why he's stuck there. He thinks that Bruce just wants the publicity, but really he wants Dick to feel safe. Give him the "Tim Drake" moment where he realizes that Batman is Bruce Wayne when Batman does one of those nifty triple flips that makes Dick catch on.

4) Add in a bit of "All Star Batman and Robin" where you have Robin sneak out to follow Batman, only to realize that Batman is really Bruce Wayne. I also love the bit where Robin dresses up like Robin Hood, then Batman shows him why the "hood" doesn't work and says that he should be "Robin." Keep those bits in there. I think despite the other stuff in Batman and Robin, I like little character "reality" bits that Nolan likes to put in his Batman movies.

5) Use a bit from Batman 100, where Robin isn't a crime fighter, but the "recon/setup/cleanup" crew. That's where the whole "son of a magician/acrobat family" come into play. Robin is the kid that sets up the dramatic escapes and introductions of Batman. He isn't fighting criminals (unless he has to). He's just the kid that makes things run smoothly and gives Batman intel (much like Lucius Fox does in this movie or what the Squire does for the Knight in Morrison's JLA books). That's where you can fix the whole "endangering a child's life" by putting the child in the background rather than the foreground. Make Robin like the new interpretation of Bucky, where Robin is a trained to be a bad ass in a different way than his mentor. This makes Robin more of Batman's partner, talking into his ear, than just a boy hostage.

I think if you implement the things that work with the Robin character into the Batman franchise, you'll have an interesting character that doesn't suffer from "Wesley Crusher Syndrome" (ala boy genius who knows more than the capable adults) nor the campy syndrome of having a character designed unrealistically for the sake of emotional beats.

- l.k.

 

[GhostPoet]

May Robin die a horrible, horrible death.

Oh...and never show in Nolan's Batman.

 

[wellsy]

I heard a lot of people (Chris Nolan included), note that Robin wouldn't work in the current Batman movie franchise. They state the following as being the main reasons:

1. It is unrealistic and dangerous to have a teenage kid as a sidekick because he'll just get harmed.

2. There is a homo-erotic element that cannot be denied once you bring a "live action Robin" into the scene.

3. No one would let Bruce Wayne adopt a young kid, especially since Bruce Wayne apparently burnt his own house down for no reason.

4. The movies are dark and noirish. The introduction of a young ward makes it lighter and campy.

While I understand these points, I think Robin can be a boon to this movie franchise, as long as they make him a "partner" and not just a sidekick. Note how DC sidestep people disliking Tim Drake: they made him his own character and gave him responsibilities that weren't just being the brightly colored target to Batman's suit.

My idea would be to combine several different Robin elements into the story, so you get a general sense of how to make this work for Batman.

1) Make Robin's parents a part of the story. Part of the reason why Tim Drake works is that you really got to know Tim's parents. Also, it harkens back to Jason Todd's original origin story, where Batman hired the Todds as investigators. My notion is that the latest Batman hires the Graysons (a family of escape artist acrobats ala Cirque de Solei/David Copperfield) to help him learn the fine art of escaping and acrobatics. The Graysons think that Wayne is just hiring them because he's a rich playboy that has a lot of money to burn, but really he's hiring them because he wants to learn their tricks.

2) Bring Robin's tragedy to home when things go bad. The Graysons get killed because of their connection with Batman (maybe some villain finds out who Batman is or something like that). Make the tragedy at the circus, where Bruce Wayne is attending. He feels that it is his responsibility to take young Dick in because his parents left him guardianship of Dick Grayson (that way, you have a more logical progression than just the state awarding Dick above any biological parents).

3) Give this part a real "Dark Victory" feel to the story. Dick Grayson is at the house and he's not quite sure why he's stuck there. He thinks that Bruce just wants the publicity, but really he wants Dick to feel safe. Give him the "Tim Drake" moment where he realizes that Batman is Bruce Wayne when Batman does one of those nifty triple flips that makes Dick catch on.

4) Add in a bit of "All Star Batman and Robin" where you have Robin sneak out to follow Batman, only to realize that Batman is really Bruce Wayne. I also love the bit where Robin dresses up like Robin Hood, then Batman shows him why the "hood" doesn't work and says that he should be "Robin." Keep those bits in there. I think despite the other stuff in Batman and Robin, I like little character "reality" bits that Nolan likes to put in his Batman movies.

5) Use a bit from Batman 100, where Robin isn't a crime fighter, but the "recon/setup/cleanup" crew. That's where the whole "son of a magician/acrobat family" come into play. Robin is the kid that sets up the dramatic escapes and introductions of Batman. He isn't fighting criminals (unless he has to). He's just the kid that makes things run smoothly and gives Batman intel (much like Lucius Fox does in this movie or what the Squire does for the Knight in Morrison's JLA books). That's where you can fix the whole "endangering a child's life" by putting the child in the background rather than the foreground. Make Robin like the new interpretation of Bucky, where Robin is a trained to be a bad ass in a different way than his mentor. This makes Robin more of Batman's partner, talking into his ear, than just a boy hostage.

I think if you implement the things that work with the Robin character into the Batman franchise, you'll have an interesting character that doesn't suffer from "Wesley Crusher Syndrome" (ala boy genius who knows more than the capable adults) nor the campy syndrome of having a character designed unrealistically for the sake of emotional beats.

- l.k.

Welcome to the Hype, Kal-el, and very well said. You manage to hit every point that people bring up in the Robin debate.

 

[Doc Samson]

I'm torn on this one. I feel like Robin should be a part of this, but at the same time I just don't see how it could work. Like others have said, I thought that little boy in BB could've been a nice little setup, his parents obviously didn't care much about his safety or well-being, and he admired Batman a lot. But the actual physical side of it, how is Nolan going to explain that (and you know he would)

We've seen Bruce go to the ends of the world and get his training, how would he get a child up to speed in less time, and then have the confidence to take him out on these crazy missions? Making him an Oracle type character like little kon-el suggested could work, with Robin handling the intel and orchestrating things behind the scenes. Other than that though, I'm afraid I just can't picture it....

 

[Sloth7d]

If Robin was introduced, his character should be similar to the Batmen wannabes in TDK. Gets his ass kicked at every turn by every villain. Accomplishes almost next to nothing due to being just an inexperienced teenager. Maybe he should even die at the end of the movie.
But I still don't see him being introduced.

 

[Katsuro]

1) Make Robin's parents a part of the story. Part of the reason why Tim Drake works is that you really got to know Tim's parents. Also, it harkens back to Jason Todd's original origin story, where Batman hired the Todds as investigators. My notion is that the latest Batman hires the Graysons (a family of escape artist acrobats ala Cirque de Solei/David Copperfield) to help him learn the fine art of escaping and acrobatics. The Graysons think that Wayne is just hiring them because he's a rich playboy that has a lot of money to burn, but really he's hiring them because he wants to learn their tricks.

That's actually an interesting idea. The one problem I feel there really is with Robin is the idea of Bruce Wayne being allowed to adopt this kid, and this could kind of offer a solution. It gives Wayne and Dick some prior association, but keeps the rest of the origin largely the same.

Except... the Grayson's would have to be killed for a reason other than what you said. It can't be because of their connection to Batman, because then it really does become his fault. You can't have Batman largely to blame for the death of Robin's parents. It should still be a senseless murder by the mob, so it's similar to the death of the Wayne's.

 

[Galvanize]

I said yes. I would eventually like to see him turn up. But i would prefer it if he wasnt Robin in the the first film he appears in, they can always save that for later. I think having Dick Grayson in it and establishing his relationships with Bruce and Alfred would be ideal.
I think one of the big problems is that its like it has to be an instant thing where these characters have to be in costume by films end, ala Robin in Batman Forever and Batgirl in Batman and Robin.
It just looks and feels completely sloppy when that happens.

 

[Lauryn2000]

I heard a lot of people (Chris Nolan included), note that Robin wouldn't work in the current Batman movie franchise. They state the following as being the main reasons:

1. It is unrealistic and dangerous to have a teenage kid as a sidekick because he'll just get harmed.

2. There is a homo-erotic element that cannot be denied once you bring a "live action Robin" into the scene.

3. No one would let Bruce Wayne adopt a young kid, especially since Bruce Wayne apparently burnt his own house down for no reason.

4. The movies are dark and noirish. The introduction of a young ward makes it lighter and campy.

While I understand these points, I think Robin can be a boon to this movie franchise, as long as they make him a "partner" and not just a sidekick. Note how DC sidestep people disliking Tim Drake: they made him his own character and gave him responsibilities that weren't just being the brightly colored target to Batman's suit.

My idea would be to combine several different Robin elements into the story, so you get a general sense of how to make this work for Batman.

1) Make Robin's parents a part of the story. Part of the reason why Tim Drake works is that you really got to know Tim's parents. Also, it harkens back to Jason Todd's original origin story, where Batman hired the Todds as investigators. My notion is that the latest Batman hires the Graysons (a family of escape artist acrobats ala Cirque de Solei/David Copperfield) to help him learn the fine art of escaping and acrobatics. The Graysons think that Wayne is just hiring them because he's a rich playboy that has a lot of money to burn, but really he's hiring them because he wants to learn their tricks.

2) Bring Robin's tragedy to home when things go bad. The Graysons get killed because of their connection with Batman (maybe some villain finds out who Batman is or something like that). Make the tragedy at the circus, where Bruce Wayne is attending. He feels that it is his responsibility to take young Dick in because his parents left him guardianship of Dick Grayson (that way, you have a more logical progression than just the state awarding Dick above any biological parents).

3) Give this part a real "Dark Victory" feel to the story. Dick Grayson is at the house and he's not quite sure why he's stuck there. He thinks that Bruce just wants the publicity, but really he wants Dick to feel safe. Give him the "Tim Drake" moment where he realizes that Batman is Bruce Wayne when Batman does one of those nifty triple flips that makes Dick catch on.

4) Add in a bit of "All Star Batman and Robin" where you have Robin sneak out to follow Batman, only to realize that Batman is really Bruce Wayne. I also love the bit where Robin dresses up like Robin Hood, then Batman shows him why the "hood" doesn't work and says that he should be "Robin." Keep those bits in there. I think despite the other stuff in Batman and Robin, I like little character "reality" bits that Nolan likes to put in his Batman movies.

5) Use a bit from Batman 100, where Robin isn't a crime fighter, but the "recon/setup/cleanup" crew. That's where the whole "son of a magician/acrobat family" come into play. Robin is the kid that sets up the dramatic escapes and introductions of Batman. He isn't fighting criminals (unless he has to). He's just the kid that makes things run smoothly and gives Batman intel (much like Lucius Fox does in this movie or what the Squire does for the Knight in Morrison's JLA books). That's where you can fix the whole "endangering a child's life" by putting the child in the background rather than the foreground. Make Robin like the new interpretation of Bucky, where Robin is a trained to be a bad ass in a different way than his mentor. This makes Robin more of Batman's partner, talking into his ear, than just a boy hostage.

I think if you implement the things that work with the Robin character into the Batman franchise, you'll have an interesting character that doesn't suffer from "Wesley Crusher Syndrome" (ala boy genius who knows more than the capable adults) nor the campy syndrome of having a character designed unrealistically for the sake of emotional beats.

- l.k.

Kudos~~~~
Batman is a loose cannon and cannot mentor a young teenage boy about honor and responsibilty.
The stability for that type of life of Batman and Robin isn't there....not for The Dark Knight version anyway...........
I don't think the right message would be sent..

 

[Riven]

While I stand firmly opposed to introducing Robin in the Nolan universe, I have very little respect for people expressing their opinion like this:

No Robin! For The Love Of God No Robin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

May Robin die a horrible, horrible death.

Oh...and never show in Nolan's Batman.

On the other hand, there are people who don't share my opinion, whom I respect very much for voicing their thoughts in an intelligent and articulate manner, like this. Kudos to you, sir!

I heard a lot of people (Chris Nolan included), note that Robin wouldn't work in the current Batman movie franchise. They state the following as being the main reasons:

[...]

While I understand these points, I think Robin can be a boon to this movie franchise, as long as they make him a "partner" and not just a sidekick. Note how DC sidestep people disliking Tim Drake: they made him his own character and gave him responsibilities that weren't just being the brightly colored target to Batman's suit.

[...]

I think if you implement the things that work with the Robin character into the Batman franchise, you'll have an interesting character that doesn't suffer from "Wesley Crusher Syndrome" (ala boy genius who knows more than the capable adults) nor the campy syndrome of having a character designed unrealistically for the sake of emotional beats.

 

[darknight7.1]

I don't understand why people continue to post that adding Robin to the Nolan series would introduce a campy feel or suggest a homoerotic relationship.

For most of us who are fans of Robin, that’s exactly the reason we would want Nolan to take the challenge. So we could finally see a version of Robin that works in real life. With out camp. With out the homoerotic overtones

Isn’t it possible with what Nolan has accomplished so far, that he could build a relationship with a young man, that us as fans could come to appreciate.

I mean isn't that really the importance of what Nolan has created here. A realist version of the Dark Knight. In a real world, in the right situation, isn't it conceivable that Nolan could come up with a way to make it REAL?

At least that’s what makes the idea so exciting to me. Even as unlikely as it is.

 

[CLARKY]

For me, Robin is part of the mythos, want it or not. If Nolan's vision make Robin unable to fit, then it means, IMO, that his vision is bad. I'm not a big Robin fan, and I'd like to consider "batman & Robin" means "one time in a while", like the first season of BTAS showed him. He exists but just come from time to time, keep his appearance to a minimum. When I see how C.Nolan is able to totally transform the myth of batman, I'm pretty sure he could find a clever way to make Robin.

 

[Gianakin_]

If Nolan's vision make Robin unable to fit, then it means, IMO, that his vision is bad.

Actually, it means that Nolan deserves kudos for not adapting the character since he doesn't like him. He could easily throw him in to appeal to the fans, but he can't or doesn't want to do it. So, instead of giving as a half-a*sed character, he goes to others he is confident he can handle, leaving Robin for someone who can do him justice.

 

[AnorexicBatman]

After TDK, I believe Bats needs Robin/Nightwing more than ever
He's got way to much pressure on him and his normal life has been screwed up
He seriously needs someone to talk to and as we see has been pulling crazier stunts more than ever

Tim will be able to bring him back to normal and forget the horrors he has seen
I'm sure when Bruce sees that Tim lives a healthy-happy life as any normal child should he will realize that he has actually made a difference

No other child will have to experience what he went through and as an old friend once said, "The Dawn Is Coming"

 

[jackshea]

no nightwing! it will be dick as robin! sheeesh.

 

[thorstone]

Just say no to sidekicks.

 

[jackshea]

well dick as robin is really important to the overall mythos.

 

[Timstuff]

No he's not. He's been wedged into the mythos because so many people don't want to let go of him. Even if you take into account the impact that Jason Todd's fate had on Batman's life, that role has already been filled quite handily by [blackout]Rachel's Death[/blackout], so there's really no need for a Robin character at all. Bruce does not need a teenage boy to talk to and confide in, because that's not realistic. Batman already has a confidant in Alfred, and if he needs someone closer than that it should be Catwoman, since they have a lot in common and she also serves as a love interest/.

Robin is not important to the Batman mythos. He's seen by suits as being important to Batman as a brand since he's supposed to make the franchise more accessible to youngsters, but given the dark nature of Batman I do not think that that should be a direct goal in the first place. If you toss Robin into the wonderful mix that is the Nolanverse, you run the risk of ruining everything. And for what?

 

[Jawn]

He IS important to the mythos, for reasons I have already stated.

 

[Timstuff]

He's not important enough to the mythos to justify ruining them.

 

[jackshea]

if its done right, it won't be ruined, it'll be enhanced, and he's just as important as joker.

 

[Jawn]

Any of these characters can be ruined if done incorrectly, and vice versa.

 

[jackshea]

which is why i trust nolan to do a faithful, good robin.

 

[Kaizer104]

It's not a matter of whether or not Nolan and Bale CAN do Robin justice, it's a matter of if they WANT to even do Robin in the first place. So far, the only thing either of them would mention of Robin in a movie is the person "Richard Grayson". You can't just demand Nolan put Robin in his movie and expect him to do the best he can. Nolan has to feel that adding Robin is helpful to the series.