The Dark Knight Rises Nolan's Villian Formula = Next Villains

[amazingfantasy15]

I could see Riddler as a good villian, but not in the normal sense. I'd like to see him trying to figure out what exactly happened with Harvey Dent, which brings Batman into the conflict to protect his and Gordon's "secret", that would be a secondary villian. We could also have Catwoman as the temptation to go further with Batman as an outcast. Then the main villian of Bane, Bane comes to Gotham realizing with all the mobs being in disarray that he can basically take over Gotham's underworld. It stays with the same idea of Batman trying to save Gotham, only this time the villian wants to rule it, not destroy it.

 

[giggs11uk]

This topic is supposed to be about the countinuation of Nolans formula

1. A Villain with a purpose greater than his self
2. A Villain with selfish motivations

Try and keep your posts relevant to this idea

 

[ross2287]

Batman vs. Himself would be hard to market, methinks.

 

[Gotham22]

I say Catwoman. I havent seen the TDK yet but what i have read it seems it doesnt end good for Batman and Catwoman who's another vigilante is sort of the opposite of him.

 

[giggs11uk]

I say Catwoman. I havent seen the TDK yet but what i have read it seems it doesnt end good for Batman and Catwoman who's another vigilante is sort of the opposite of him.

There are other threads for that type of speculation

Like I said before this thread is about the countinuation of Nolan's formula

1. Villain with motives larger then him self
2. Villain with a selfish motivation

With that being said I believe that this would be the best approach for a sequel

1. The Riddler: He should be working with the police to discover Batmans identity. His motives are greater than his self he wants to save Gotham by taking down the Bat but he doesnt have the same moral compass as Batman and his obsession ends up hurting the citizens he is trying to protect
2. Catwoman: She only cares about herself and she seeks thrills such as stealing from the wealthy and running into the Batman

 

[Tel Aviv]

It's an interesting idea to have a city and it's many factions turn on a single man. It's like Fritz Lang's M... without so much of the child killing.

 

[ThatDamnNinja]

The third movie needs villains, and you guys are crazy if you think they're not going to have a villain.

They need one because Batman needs to redeem himself somehow. He needs to become a symbol of hope again and get the city behind him, and he can't do that without an opponent.

Regarding the formula, the villain with a higher principle, and I do think we need one, because a main villain just pursuing selfish ends wouldn't carry the dramatic weight of Joker or Ra's, is going to be the toughie.

For the selfish villain, I'd throw the names of Riddler or Hush into the ring. I'd say Riddler and Hush if one of them can be given that greater dramatic weight, and more specifically, can be the threat to the public necessary to allow Batman to return to a position as its protector.

 

[FaT_tONle]

1. The Riddler: He should be working with the police to discover Batmans identity. His motives are greater than his self he wants to save Gotham by taking down the Bat but he doesnt have the same moral compass as Batman and his obsession ends up hurting the citizens he is trying to protect
2. Catwoman: She only cares about herself and she seeks thrills such as stealing from the wealthy and running into the Batman

I don't know where you read this idea again... IGN or whereever... but it's trash straight from that type of source. I mean you go that route and it's Harvey Dent part 2.... REALLY original thinking on their part. Either way... if the guy is going to be a contributor and advisor for the mob then he's another Joker... if you go the route you laid out he's pretyt much Harvey Dent. Obviously there would be differences but it doesn't really matter because a rehash is a rehash. The problem is the mob is virtually NO THREAT to Batman at this point. I mean Sionis would be a good fit story wise but you'd be developing a villain and wasting a movie on a villain no one really cares about. Catwoman is a must IMO. But the main villain... I am just leaning towards a mob boss and hitmen to be honest. No villain compares to the Joker anyhow. I'll have to get back to you.

 

[DieSmiling]

I just don't necessarily buy into the "formula" presented in this thread. I think it could end up going in an entirely different direction than two villains, one with a greater purpose and one with selfish motivations.

In fact, I think that the transition to "freak Gotham" will be cemented and we'll see lots of cameos and smaller villain roles... I think it's possible we won't even get one centerpiece primary antagonist like the Joker... Let's be honest, NO one villain they can use could ever top Joker... But awesome performances in smaller roles by many rouges could be really cool and intriguing.

 

[Mako]

1 .the reaper- he's there to bring down batman for killing Harvey and the cops , he's willing to break batmans one rule to rid the city of criminals , it would awesome be a
Good conflict for Bruce seeing another vigilante willing to cross the line to bring gth back.

2.Catwoman -not sure yet as far as story but the studio is going to want a female
Lead some maybe just selina

3.bane - not to sure either but a real pyshical presance and advisonsary for batman , he doesn't care about who's under the mask he just wants to break and beat the batman simple but threatning

3.the riddler haven't figure out yet

Sorry bout the spelling damn Iphone keyboard

 

[Marvolo]

Personally, I don't want just some random villain to pop up in the third film. I want the third film to be the culmination of what's happened in the first two. So the villain needs to be a result of what's happened. I, also, don't want a retread.

As far as true villain goes, I only like The Joker, because I can buy him. Yes, he is over the top, but it's his nature. He is Batman's opposite, and he is insane. And to an extent he was a result of Batman. He is not just some dude bent on taking over. Ra I don't see as a villain. He was an idealist. Yes, he was a threat, but not a villain. I want the third film to keep with this idea, because it fits the whole "real" feel Nolan seems to want. The villain needs to be believable.

Most villains I just don't believe, and I don't take seriously.

 

[christpunchers]

The true goal of the 3rd movie would be to correct the flaws of TDK, to improve upon them, and to top the grandness of it. Even though Riddler would make a great villain, how can he make the 3rd film even BETTER than TDK? It's just too difficult.

 

[SPIDERMAN117]

The Mob should be finished off in this film by the main villain for good. But whos left though?

 

[spiderfan970]

Many have said the third theme should be redemption with batman seen as the primary villain. Well, I was thinking that Catwoman could possibly be the temptress taking batman away from his redemption and into the darkness, making his quest to walk the moral path even harder.

Either that, or Catwoman could become more of an anti-hero by the end of the film and somewhat redeem herself, similar to Batman to the city? And because Two-Face's demise is so questionable...Maybe bring him back for a third, Eckhart was such a good addition to the cast.

 

[returntovoid]

Options for the next film that I think all could be viable with Batman turning into a wanted vigilante

#1: Traditional Penguin Mobster + hired hitman (Bane / Deadshot)
#2: Holiday Killer for more Two-Face material.
#3: Talia al Ghul and Lady Shiva for Ra's al Ghul material
#4: Black Mask (mobster introduction)
#5: Hush
#6: The Riddler
#7: The Red Hood
#8: Hugo Strange (Bruce Wayne gets therapy and sets up his intro)

I think Scarecrow can be the main villain and Hush or Black Mask can be the 2nd villain. Also i think there should not be too many villains in the third film or it will end up like Spiderman 3.

Scarecrow

Scarecrow can be a bigger threat this time around.

Hush or Black Mask

Both want revenge on Bruce Wayne.

 

[Doc Samson]

I dont think Batman will be a villain per se, but I do think he could take on a more "The Dark Knight Returns" persona, waging a war against the criminals and cops. I also think they should incorporate the fake Batmen, like he had the Sons of the Bat in TDKR, it'd be interesting IMO. Whatever the case, I do believe there will be some sort of real villain, and whoever it is will have to play into his redemption, and becoming the true hero of Gotham...

 

[Rishi]

The thing about not having a "villain" villain is the movie will also cost less money to make, and consequently the WB might not need that push for marketing as much.

Having a more personal, dramatic story could work fine. Throw in the Penguin as a mob boss or Catwoman and you got a good final chapter.

As a side note... how can Batman possibly redeem his name without the people finding about about Dent?

 

[Grommers]

Batman can only have internal conflict, riddler will obviously be the bad guy, because riddler could make his riddles seem like its batman doing the killing.

I picture the riddler, and killer croc (killer croc being the crazed psycho who sharpened hsi teeth and has a skin disease). Croc would be good as a crazed killer, and Riddler to really mess with him.

I trust Nolan into finding someone that can play the riddler the way the comic books depict him. Its obvious that nolan can't top dark knight but he can probably come helluva close.

 

[jmc]

This topic is supposed to be about the countinuation of Nolans formula

1. A Villain with a purpose greater than his self
2. A Villain with selfish motivations

Try and keep your posts relevant to this idea

How about a Villain with obsessive intentions, an unintentional villain, The Riddler, he's not a bad person per se, he's just an intelligent man who has to know who Batman is, similar in the way in the movie Unbreakable where (SPOILER ALERT) Samuel L. Jackson's character was trying to find Bruce Willis' character via causing major accidents and killing hundred or people. The obsession become so bad that Nygma goes to extreme lengths to find out Batman's identity. I'd add Catwoman as the backbone being the criminal who becomes the anti-heroin, both Selina and Bruce being each others light in their darkest hours. I think redemption should be the theme for film three, but the great irony is the Batman would be the hardest one to redeem.

 

[Lauryn2000]

This topic is supposed to be about the countinuation of Nolans formula

1. A Villain with a purpose greater than his self
2. A Villain with selfish motivations

Try and keep your posts relevant to this idea

Hmmmmm........heck...I'm thinking this "non seen" villian would put a bounty for the Batman's head....but I'm at lost for who this villain would be...Batman has to be taken out....he's gotten bigger than the myth...anyone that dresses up as a giant rat w/wings has some serious issues...he should be locked up and sent to the Asylum....the City Of Gotham must wake up and see Batman for what he really is.............ramplings of a madman.....Ah...The Mad Hatter???

 

[Nathaniel Essex]

People need to remember that Nolan likes to touch on the "since Batman is around, the freaks will come out"

 

[Juggernaut423]

Here's my ideal situation for the 3rd film.

Batman is on the run and this is when the Red Hood shows up in Gotham as the new "hero" of choice. Red Hood vows to catch Batman and take down villains for Gotham like Batman never could. In comes Penguin and his henchmen Bane who are set to rule the underworld of crime within Gotham.

Now this is where it gets interesting. I'd introduce Selina Kyle as a love interest but I wouldn't have her turn into Catwoman. I'd also introduce Edward Nygma, Tommy Elliot, Roman Sionis and Hugo Strange but they wouldn't be more than supporting roles. Nygma would be helping out the cops trying to find Batman and Hugo would be Bruce's therapist. As for Elliot, he would be there as someone who is hired by Bruce for his company since they were old time friends and Sionis would be a new mobster that is working with the Penguin but not much screentime.

The main storyline would encompass Gotham City eventually wanting Batman back because The Red Hood is actually killing his enemies in front of crowds of many which doesn't please the cops nor the citizens of Gotham. When The Red Hood fails to capture Batman and loses to Bane in a fight, this is when Batman is called back with the Batsignal to take down Penguin and Bane's criminal underworld.

For the sake of this thread
Penguin = Villain with gigantic goal to make the mob scene rule Gotham and take it over as an overrule of sorts. He would be regal and I'd envision Phillip Seymour Hoffman
Bane = selfish villain who is out to only crush Batman. For him, I'd envision someone the size of Daniel Cudmore (Colossus from X-Men).

The theme would be redemption. Two-Face would be found alive and working with Penguin at the end of the film. Red Hood would eventually turn into Robin but not the traditional Robin. He would just take the moniker and help serve Gotham, but wouldn't be a sidekick or anything (this is real iffy).

All of this would set up for a fourth film if its possible where Selina turns into Catwoman, Hugo Strange teams up with The Riddler to expose Batman since he's now adored again and the rising power of the Black Mask as a mobster. Hush could also show up as he stumbles upon Batman's armory and takes his weapons and becomes a vigilante himself.

 

[timwang2k]

There are other threads for that type of speculation

Like I said before this thread is about the countinuation of Nolan's formula

1. Villain with motives larger then him self
2. Villain with a selfish motivation

With that being said I believe that this would be the best approach for a sequel

1. The Riddler: He should be working with the police to discover Batmans identity. His motives are greater than his self he wants to save Gotham by taking down the Bat but he doesnt have the same moral compass as Batman and his obsession ends up hurting the citizens he is trying to protect
2. Catwoman: She only cares about herself and she seeks thrills such as stealing from the wealthy and running into the Batman

Thanks for trying to keep this thread somewhat on topic. You're choices for villains work although I'm having trouble seeing Catwoman stand toe to toe with Batman and it looking somewhat realistic.

 

[Clayface]

1. Hugo Strange
2. Bane
3. Clayface.

Hugo Strange discovers Batman's identity. He sells it to the vigilante Bane, who makes a deal with the cops to bring Batman in. At the same time, Strange hires a hitman with the alias 'Clayface' to frame Bruce Wayne for murder.

For Hugo Strange...Erick Avari.

For Clayface...Crispin Glover.

For Bane...?

 

[timwang2k]

I just don't necessarily buy into the "formula" presented in this thread. I think it could end up going in an entirely different direction than two villains, one with a greater purpose and one with selfish motivations.

It COULD go in any direction Goyer and Nolan decide to take, so I decided that the best way to figure out who will be in the 3rd movie was to look at who they have used in previous movies and figure out their roles.

Do you disagree or find some fault with the formula, or do you accept it and just not buy into it being able to help figure out whom are going to be used as villains next?

Because really, if someone knocked on your door and punched you in the face when you opened it, then did it again the next day, what do you think will happen on the third? He could just give you a box of chocolates, the possibility for that to happen exists, but you're probably just gonna get punched in the face.