The Dark Knight Rises Nolan's Villian Formula = Next Villains

[timwang2k]

So I decided to list Batman's A-B list foes in the two categories and see who is left, thank you to the internet for helping compile the list. Villains in Begins and TDK are not included, I also left out KGBeast because I don't think he is relevant. Poison Ivy is listed in both categories.


Primary (Villain with motives larger then him self)
-Talia al Ghul
-League of Assassins
-Poison Ivy







Secondary (Villain with a selfish motivation)
-Catwoman
-Bane
-Black Mask
-Clayface
-Firefly
-Hush
-Killerr Croc
-MadHatter
-ManBat
-Mr Freeze
-Penguin
-Poison Ivy
-Riddler
-Hugo Strange
-ScarFace/Ventriloquist
[FONT=&quot]-DeadShot

[/FONT]

 

[Asteroid-Man]

I think you're missing a third villain. The Mob-Lord.
Falcone->Maroni->BLACK MASK

I don't know how it should be done but I would like Joker to come back in half way through and have Two-Face in it at somepoint too.

What would I prefer?

Primary->The Ridler his ideas of questioning peoples every act in a sort of autocratic society could be against everything Batman stands for.
Secondary-> The Joker and his selfish desire is to tell the world of how Two-Face did kill everyone just to really stick it to gotham that their white knight is really evil and show Batman that he broke his one rule with Two-Face.

I'm hoping however that in the end of Batman 3, we find out that Two-Face is still alive in a very subtle fashion.

 

[strikerbatman2]

Black mask!! he's big enough of a villian, with Gothams underworld deteriated he culd take over, and plunge the city into chaos(again). idk who the secondary villian would be?

 

[GenesisBeyond]

I think you're missing a FOURTH Villian(geez how many are there really?) The Corporate Rat.

William Earle -> Lau -> Cameron Van Cleer

Thus clearing the way for Killer Moth to make his big Screen Debut!

Ok mostly kidding about the Killer Moth...but the Corporate Bad Guy has also been in both films...maybe the Blask Mask can play the Dual Role of Mob Boss and Corporate Rat.

 

[Matt.S99]

Id have either one of these.

Keep going the Mob boss route and add either Penguin or Black mask. Riddler as primary villain.

Or

Batman as the ''villain'' against the cops etc, riddler as batmans villain and Ivy as a secondary villain.

 

[DorkyFresh]

you can't use black mask...




...the word 'black hole' comes to mind, hehe....j/m

 

[CinematicESP]

I like the idea that Batman is the "villain" in the public's eye while the true villain, the Riddler, is almost seen as a new hero to Gotham, helping to hunt the Batman. Gordon, knowing the truth behind Harvey and Batman, sees through the Riddler and works with Batman in secret to expose him.

Catwoman could be there to help. I think giving Bats an extra hand would be the next logical step in Nolan's films. With the escalation of "freaks" comes the need for recruitment, and if they aren't doing Robin, Catwoman is the best possibility. She's also the kind of anti-hero that Gotham believes Batman to be, so she can relate to him. New love interest? Check.

 

[VII7]

catwoman is overrated jesus i cant believe how many people actually want catwoman... i dont mind the riddler but catwoman LOOOL...

also i think they should use a villain we havent seen before on screen like hush and the black mask. that would be cool hush and the riddler maybe

 

[lixdexia]

my thoguhts? (though no one asked i'll share anyway)

main thing of the movie is batman going over the edge. he's lost rachel, his symbol for hope, he's lost the battle for harvey to the joker. he's serriously doubting himself and is constantly pushing ever closer to the edge, taking greater chances and being unnesicarily brutal. the riddler (who has ban as a sidekick, but bane has no lines, just muscle because a batman v. riddler fight would be boring) has begun siphoning off money from gotham's big businesses, most notably wayne enterprizes leaving clues to his identity and how to stop him along the way. batman figures out these clues and stops him leading to a rivalry with the riddler. riddler gets batman's identity from reese and start's breaking him down from that front. penguin is begining a slow take over of the mob. bruce meets catwoman mid theft in the movies opening scene, and later selina at some fancy party. selina is the love intrest, catwoman meets up with batman a couple of times throughout the movie and at the climax shows up to stop him from going too far with nigma. there also should be a nice batman v. cops foot chase ala year one. the movie is still batman centric with the "main villian" nigma only getting about as much screen time as scarecrow had in begins and penguin just getting a couple of scenes to show him as the emerging head of the mob (no big knock down drag outs for penguin)

 

[Viper81]

Originally Posted by CryticOne
Look at it like this, who did we know was going to be the villian in TDK at the end of Begins? The Joker.

Now, at the end of TDK, who was the "villain?" Batman.

Him against the city of Gotham. We don't need a villain like The Riddler, Catwoman, Clayface, or any other to headline the third movie.

How about irony...

Batman is the villain, and one of the known villains is actually the "hero"?

At least in the eyes of Gotham.

How frikin cool of a movie would THAT be?

The question, then, is who has the potential to be "heroic" in the next film? What villain do we have in the Batman arsenal that could be a "hero" in Gotham's eyes, but still be a Villain?

Also, bear in mind, that I've heard the comment that Nolan would like to do a villain who hasn't made it to the screen yet.

 

[VII7]

How about irony...

Batman is the villain, and one of the known villains is actually the "hero"?

At least in the eyes of Gotham.

How frikin cool of a movie would THAT be?

The question, then, is who has the potential to be "heroic" in the next film? What villain do we have in the Batman arsenal that could be a "hero" in Gotham's eyes, but still be a Villain?

Also, bear in mind, that I've heard the comment that Nolan would like to do a villain who hasn't made it to the screen yet.

didnt we already see this: batman returns?

 

[Lightning54SC]

Options for the next film that I think all could be viable with Batman turning into a wanted vigilante

#1: Traditional Penguin Mobster + hired hitman (Bane / Deadshot)
#2: Holiday Killer for more Two-Face material.
#3: Talia al Ghul and Lady Shiva for Ra's al Ghul material
#4: Black Mask (mobster introduction)
#5: Hush
#6: The Riddler
#7: The Red Hood
#8: Hugo Strange (Bruce Wayne gets therapy and sets up his intro)

what about Azreal...??? have him find Bruce, and get chummy only to have bruce find out that Azreal has been killing people why is why batman is looked at as a killer!

have a scene in which batman goes to visit the joker for advice on stopping this only to find out joker replaced himslef with a decoy and have someone else dress up as ledger running out of arkyum with what looks to be harley quinn with ledgers voiceover laughing in the background...

then have batman and Azreal battle it out and have bruce hand areal over to gordon and gotham to clear his name? how does that sound?

 

[Juggernaut423]

well your post is hard to follow, but Azrael would fit well into the series as would The Phantasm.

 

[spideymouse]

As a side note... how can Batman possibly redeem his name without the people finding about about Dent?

That's just it. The public eventually needs to know the truth about Harvey.

Spoiler

Where in the comics does Gotham continue thinking that Batman is a villain and that Harvey Dent died as a hero?

As many have said before, "redemption" would be a great theme for the third movie, and the revelation of Two-Face's villainry and the restoration of Batman's name would be a great turning point of the film. In TDK, Batman is willing to be anything that Gotham needs him to be, and the third film should reflect Gotham's need, as a city full of freaks, to embrace the Dark Knight as its true champion of justice.

Okay, okay, I'll respond to what this thread was supposed to be about. Given my opinion stated above, I believe a gamut of villains should be in play, although perhaps not in focus. Taking center stage could be a "rehabilitated" Harvey Dent/Two-Face and Catwoman in the supposed two villain "formula":

1.) Batman's primary adversary actually is bigger than one person, but it could be embodied by Two-Face. (I'd like to see Aaron Eckhart in the role again.) Imagine "the white knight" turning all of Gotham against the Dark Knight; the citizenry, the cops, and the "freaks," who now rule the mob and the underworld thanks to the Joker. A falsely "Arkham-rehabilitated" and facially-reconstructed Harvey Dent posing as Gotham's fallen and risen hero would lead the city against Batman while leading a double life as a criminal and/or vigilante. A hesitant Gordon would lead an angry police department, and a minor "freak" (Penguin or Ventriloquist) would lead the mob, with Dent letting the mob take over the city again.

2.) Batman's secondary adversary could be his own temptation towards self-preservation, possibly embodied in Selina Kyle (not sure if I see her as Catwoman yet). Although he intended it, perhaps he fears or feels that the "legend" of Batman actually can't handle the way the city turned on him, and seeks escape inhttp://www.wunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=ann+arbor+mi+48103
weather Bruce Wayne's life, which Selina has just entered. Selina could tempt him to reject the city who first rejected him.

The beginning of the film would show Gotham in its truly worst times before its getting any better (reflecting Alfred's words). "Things are worse than ever" has now been said in the first two films (Rachel in BB, and some random guy in TDK), but this could take the cake. A city that collectively decides that it's against its hero and for its villain would truly be worse than a city gripped in fear of the mob/a madman. A Gotham that needs its hero to save it from itself could top TDK, in terms of scope--when people say "Batman as the villain," we're actually saying "Gotham as the villain AND victim." Back to the story, Batman would have to reveal Dent to Gotham for who he is (maybe with Gordon's help) while overcoming the mob (no thanks to the police) and winning back the city in a dark but redemptive victory.

 

[spideymouse]

How about irony...

Batman is the villain, and one of the known villains is actually the "hero"?

At least in the eyes of Gotham.

How frikin cool of a movie would THAT be?

The question, then, is who has the potential to be "heroic" in the next film? What villain do we have in the Batman arsenal that could be a "hero" in Gotham's eyes, but still be a Villain?

There was a movie where one of the villains was actually the "hero": The Dark Knight. And yes, i'd say it was quite "frikin cool of a movie."
A "rehabilitated" Harvey Dent DEFINITELY has the potential to be "heroic" in the next film; in fact, he already fulfilled that potential. A villainous Harvey Two-Face double-dealing behind the "heroic" Harvey Dent could work this out perfectly. Batman is given a choice: allowing Gotham to go on believing the lie, or bringing it to true justice. (see my post above)

didnt we already see this: batman returns?

Yes. Again, we see this in The Dark Knight: Harvey Dent "died a hero", but the truth is that he "lived long enough to see himself become the villain." See my above post to show how the third movie could use this pretty well.

 

[wrhssaxensemble]

what about Azreal...??? have him find Bruce, and get chummy only to have bruce find out that Azreal has been killing people why is why batman is looked at as a killer!

have a scene in which batman goes to visit the joker for advice on stopping this only to find out joker replaced himslef with a decoy and have someone else dress up as ledger running out of arkyum with what looks to be harley quinn with ledgers voiceover laughing in the background...

then have batman and Azreal battle it out and have bruce hand areal over to gordon and gotham to clear his name? how does that sound?

But Azrael is not a villain... sure he has been more violent etc. than Bruce is, but he has never, to my recollection actually been a villain

 

[nOvAkAiNe]

i see nolan (assuming he takes the mantle again, with the sick money its made...warner will def. persuade him.) bringing in catwoman. its simply goes with what TDK built up, Bats is alone now, he doesnt have gordon or the city on his side. catwoman although she usually works to her advantage she helps batman now and then. i believe Catwoman has always been batman's connection with humanity. (at least when jeph loeb is writing her and it looks like they are taking his and franks "early" batman arcs as reference for the movies) On the other hand, we have a plot line open where someone knows his identity. It seems to me that this is an open play for the Riddler character, i can see him threatening or blackmailing the guy who knows bats identity (forgot his name) and using that leverage to make alot of money off of the mob to bring down batman once and for all. He'll attack batman and Bruce wayne at the same time, he'll use his past and his secrets to dismantle the batman. I cant see the Riddler telling anyone batmans secret because what good is a riddle everyone knows the answer to? (nod to Hush) I dont see batman fighting to clear his name, if that were the case he wouldnt have volunteered to take the blame after harveys fall from grace. but somehow he'll get the city and the law back on his side, but it'll be a kind of "dark victory". (thats the route i think they'll take next)

 

[zenith16]

sorry nOvAkAiNe both nolan and oldman said no to cat woman cause she is lame. they said no catwoman, bat girl, robin and peguin . cause their all lame to them. it's all in here video link:Christopher Nolan talks about the next Batman film.
http://forums.superherohype.com/showthread.php?t=307244

 

[nOvAkAiNe]

i just saw a video where nolan said he isnt even thinking about the 3rd movie yet. so i take what is said with a grain of salt. i guess we wont know until something is said.

 

[chamber-music]

They have lots of villains to choose from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Batman_Family_enemies

 

[chamber-music]

EXCLUSIVE: David Goyer Says He Knows The Theme For ‘Batman 3’

“I think that’s the scariest thing – to think, could we come up with a third movie that was as good as the first two? Can we top ourselves?” screenwriter David Goyer asked aloud, almost rhetorically, in a recent conversation with MTV News. “Doing it a third time would be a big proposition.”

Make no mistake about it, though, a third film HAS been discussed, Goyer confessed, revealing that, while nothing is concrete, both a villain and a theme have been bandied about.

“We’ve only talked loosely about it, though, Chris [Nolan] and I,” Goyer said.

Interestingly, it’s the theme, and not the villain, that most interests me, especially given how the latter seems inexorably tied to the former in this new modern Batman universe. (Fear the predominant issue in “Begins” precipitating the introduction of Scarecrow, escalation in “Knight” similarly calling for The Joker.

The fact that Goyer has a theme he wants to keep in mind for a possible “Batman 3” means he also has a direction, a crisis, and, yes, a villain.

So what is it?

“I have one,” Goyer said laughing. “But I’m not going to tell you. Chris is very particular about that.

“I do think, though, that if there’s not a third film – these two movies stand on their own,” he added. “I think it could go either way.”

 

[TheRumbleDragon]

Posssible villains for the Nolan Batman (besides Joker and Two-Face):

Black Mask
Hush
Talia Al Ghul
Catwoman
Riddler
Ellen Yindel
Dr. Bartholomew Wolper

I can picture Bane as a huge thug. He does not don the mask, but wears a hood and the shape of the eyes on his mask (in the comics) is on the side of it, huge thug not a big villain but a nod.

 

[CrypticOne]

You see, people these days don't have the attention span to just deal with a great, amazing story. They need a villain.

If there is a villain in BB3, the only thing I see working is Two Face. You can't just throw Catwoman, The Riddler in. How can they fit into Nolan's real ongoing story? People really need to watch Batman Begins and The Dark Knight and really understand these movies. This is Batman's story. His beginning. His transformation into Gotham's Knight. His tear through organized crime. His rebuilding of Gotham.

 

[jackshea]

i think black mask would work very well, make him obsessed with masks, start a gang war, tie him to catwoman like in the comics, i think he could also be merged w/ aspects of hush. masks would be the theme, i think he should also have a silent, deadly girlfriend named pamela isley, and the terrible trio as his main men. The trio could wear masks that are like the death eater masks in hp, but designed after their animals. the gang war would be a great overall story.

 

[BatJokerFace]

EXCLUSIVE: David Goyer Says He Knows The Theme For ‘Batman 3’

I think it's pretty easy to delineate the thematic direction for these movies. Fear (Batman Begins) -> Escalation (The Dark Knight) -> Redemption (Third Movie)

So the question Batfans should ask themselves: Who needs redeeming? Short answer: Harvey Dent. Long answer: Batman's ultimate purpose, to Bruce, in addition to his reputation for Gotham.

That leads us to a Gotham City now benighted by a rash of masked villains and civil war in the mafia realm. The third film needs someone to fill the major villain role, and someone (according to this thread's purported formula) who represents an idea bigger than himself/herself.

But who says the major villain needs to be an idealist like Ra's al-Ghul or true believer like The Joker? I think the film needs someone who doesn't intend to represent a bigger goal but does so anyway - and that immediately selects an entire host of villains.

I think Bane is a perfect fit. Bane represents the escalation theme and, if his purpose in the film, as in the comic books, should be only to challenge Batman and rule the underworld, what is Batman's purpose, if he only inspires masked villainy? Batman "inspired" the fake Batmans and, at least according to The Joker, "complete[d]" him and gave him purpose.

Now Batman would seem to give Bane equal purpose. So Batman and Gotham have to answer the question: What is Batman's purpose if, instead of turning fear on those who prey on the fearful, his role in Gotham inspires madness, lawlessness, anarchy? Wouldn't it be better if Batman weren't around?

It doesn't add a new layer of depth like The Joker, but rather elaborates on what The Joker and TDK's fake Batmans postulated. If the third film introduced a new District Attorney, that position would be ripe to be anti-Batman (and I suggest it be helmed by a woman, since the past two positions were by men) and come into conflict with Gordon's supportive role.

The way Batman responds to this crisis redeems his role and reputation. Which role Harvey Two-Face plays, if any, could support the redemption theme.

So my answer to the formula:

Primary villain: Bane

Secondary villains:

Black Mask (by day, well-received philanthropist; by night, mafia leader of the underworld)
The Penguin (as an arms/drugs dealer)
The Ventriloquist
Catwoman (partial ally to Batman)
The Riddler
Harley Quinn (inspired by The Joker, like one of the fake Batmen)

I also think, in this capacity, that Catwoman could serve as more an informant and hinted-at romantic interest to Batman than as an actual villain. Criminal? Sure. Villain? Nah.

Ideas? Thoughts?