The Dark Knight "Not your grandpa's Batman..."

[Castlewood]

Something has been concerning me, to an extent.

It feels like Nolan is worried that he's giving us a story that we all know and love, and it's pretty much standard Batman folklore.... so therefore, he has to make things dramatically different, just so we don't recognize what we've grown up with for years.

For example, who doesn't know the story of Batman's feud with Joker, or Joker's plot to destroy Gotham, or Harvey Dent's relationship to Batman and Gordon (Power of 3), and how Harvey is scarred, later becoming Two-Face? You can literally read this stuff right now by opening up your copy of The Long Halloween, The Killing Joke, Joker's Five-Way Revenge, The Man Who Laughs, and maybe even Year One still.

Batman Begins wasn't really standard folklore, because we were introduced to a lot of new stuff. We had never seen Ra's, Scarecrow, or Falcone on the big screen before, we didn't know who the hell Rachel Dawes was because she was written specifically for the movie, we never read in the comics about Bruce's seven-year absence from Gotham (years differ), because it was never presented to us. We never could've imagined that Henri Ducard would actually be the REAL Ra's Al Ghul (unless you spoiled yourself), because there's never been a story like that before.

The reason why I'm scared about TDK, is because we're not getting anything "new" to us this time, and because of that, it almost feels like Nolan is changing it up, just so it seems fresh. There's NOTHING wrong with adapting to the modern world, but when you see a Joker with big gashes going up to his ears, a Batman with heavily-padded armor, and an exotic "Bat-Pod", this is stuff you wouldn't see in most comics.

Now, before you think I'm bashing Nolan, I'm not. I really love what Nolan is doing. I totally respect this vision, and I've been 100% satisfied with everything I've seen so far (yes, I like Joker's appearance). I can't wait for this movie.

The issue I have... is the older audience. Old people went to Batman Begins, and hell... I saw a GROUP of old WOMEN go together, maybe in their late 50's - early 60's. Batman Begins appealed to a wide audience, much like Spider-Man, but the difference is, Spider-Man caters to the younger kids and the family-oriented. Batman Begins catered to a wide range of ADULTS. I babysitted an 8 year-old who was extremely bored with BB, because "there was too much talking", and I even sat down with my 19 year old girlfriend to watch BB, and even SHE said, "this is kinda boring."
Therefore, I definitely think BB was for a more mature, adult audience.

So if that is the audience that is expected to come to "The Dark Knight", will the older people who grew up with Batman (the serials, Adam West, the comics, the 60's cartoon, and all those Jack Nicholson-worshippers who say he can do no wrong), be turned off by this new vision of Joker and Batman?

It almost feels like this is too extreme (not for us, obviously.. nothing is too extreme for our generation, especially for me).

So if the old people are turned off by TDK, and the parents don't want to take their little kids to TDK because The Joker is too scary and gortesque.... we're losing two VERY big demographics, which makes me wonder if this movie might make less money than BB.
Am I wrong? Please discuss... I need to stop worrying, lol.

 

[Steyin]

My parents and grandfather loved Begins, so I'm not worried.

 

[Mysterio]

For example, who doesn't know the story of Batman's feud with Joker, or Joker's plot to destroy Gotham, or Harvey Dent's relationship to Batman and Gordon (Power of 3), and how Harvey is scarred, later becoming Two-Face? You can literally read this stuff right now by opening up your copy of The Long Halloween, The Killing Joke, Joker's Five-Way Revenge, The Man Who Laughs, and maybe even Year One still.

me.

I need to stop worrying, lol.

that's the truth. you have no investment in this movie, financial or otherwise. you aren't making any decisions other than to see the movie. why would you even worry over something so trivial and for something that you have no control over?

 

[FCEEVIPER]

As long as it make enough $ for the 3rd film, and most of all I like the film.

I really don't care if Grandpa likes it.

 

[Castlewood]

that's the truth. you have no investment in this movie, financial or otherwise. you aren't making any decisions other than to see the movie. why would you even worry over something so trivial and for something that you have no control over?

Because I want it to be successful?

 

[The Kid]

Begins was so boring, because it played it too safe, did everything by the book and gave us a happy ending.

I want this movie to tear up the foundations and really go all wrath of khan on it and that's what it seems to be like so far even though that bike looks like crap, and joker with big ugly scars is really something unexpected, and the suit, good lawd, who wanted MORE techy stuff added?

well ths will definitely be nolan's batman returns. we'll have to hope and pray that the next won't be the batman forever.

 

[dark_b]

Begins was so boring, because it played it too safe, did everything by the book and gave us a happy ending.

I want this movie to tear up the foundations and really go all wrath of khan on it and that's what it seems to be like so far even though that bike looks like crap, and joker with big ugly scars is really something unexpected, and the suit, good lawd, who wanted MORE techy stuff added?

well ths will definitely be nolan's batman returns. we'll have to hope and pray that the next won't be the batman forever.

so they used a lot of stuff from the book becuase this is what people like?


its how oyu make themovie. someone can change everything from the comcis and make a good movie. someoen can use everything from the comcis and make a bad movie.

 

[fabman]

...and Superman Returns isn't boring, right, Wesyeed? I got it, I got it.

 

[Mysterio]

Because I want it to be successful?

why? all that matters is whether you enjoy the movie. i don't find that a compelling reason to worry about a movie.

 

[Ronny Shade]

For example, who doesn't know the story of Batman's feud with Joker, or Joker's plot to destroy Gotham, or Harvey Dent's relationship to Batman and Gordon (Power of 3), and how Harvey is scarred, later becoming Two-Face?

Lots of people, actually

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

The problem is that a lot of people were under the deluded thought that this series would be "The Definitive Batman." While it draws a lot from the source material and is a good representation of the mythos, it's still one man's interpretation, just like Burton's or Schumacher's.

 

[Paste Pot Pete]

why? all that matters is whether you enjoy the movie. i don't find that a compelling reason to worry about a movie.

To play Devil's Advocate here, as I'm not a big box office watcher, financial success is necessary to ensure a continuing series, which is enough of a reason to want it to do well. Theoretically (though highly unlikely), if the movie tanked, we won't get more. Or at least more from the same team (i.e. The Incredible Hulk)

 

[FCEEVIPER]

...and Superman Returns isn't boring, right, Wesyeed? I got it, I got it.

Don't get baited by Wesyeed, he does this all day. t:

 

[Kleric]

The problem is that a lot of people were under the deluded thought that this series would be "The Definitive Batman." While it draws a lot from the source material and is a good representation of the mythos, it's still one man's interpretation, just like Burton's or Schumacher's.

I really am of the school of thought that it is impossible to create a definitive Batman story. The perfect image I have of Batman in my head is different then yours or anyone else posting on the board. How would it be possible to please everyone and as an artist but some of your own style into here too.

 

[The Kid]

...and Superman Returns isn't boring, right, Wesyeed? I got it, I got it.

Well as far as over-explaining stuff and focusing on arrowheads and crap like that, no none of that in returns.

the movie's biggest problems is that it's poorly written. conceptually and artistically I think it stomps all over begins.

good that you brought that movie up because that's kind of what this thread's about.

will a darker more mature batman film alienated the kiddies like superman returns did?

For all it's faults, im actually glad returns didn't pander to teh lowest common denominator like brett ratner and tim story do.

 

[The Kid]

Don't get baited by Wesyeed, he does this all day. t:

do what? I don't even know you.

 

[FCEEVIPER]

do what? I don't even know you.

But I know of you.

 

[The Kid]

so they used a lot of stuff from the book becuase this is what people like?


its how oyu make themovie. someone can change everything from the comcis and make a good movie. someoen can use everything from the comcis and make a bad movie.

well said

 

[Mysterio]

To play Devil's Advocate here, as I'm not a big box office watcher, financial success is necessary to ensure a continuing series, which is enough of a reason to want it to do well.

of course, but to worry about it? that's a pretty fragile existence.

 

[Sccmj23]

why? all that matters is whether you enjoy the movie. i don't find that a compelling reason to worry about a movie.

Its a reason to worry because if the movie ISNT successful then we might not see more Batman films.

 

[Crook]

of course, but to worry about it? that's a pretty fragile existence.

Well we don't want another 8-year wait, not to mention constant ridicule from other comic book fans.

 

[Mysterio]

Well as far as over-explaining stuff and focusing on arrowheads and crap like that, no none of that in returns.

the movie's biggest problems is that it's poorly written. conceptually and artistically I think it stomps all over begins.

good that you brought that movie up because that's kind of what this thread's about.

will a darker more mature batman film alienated the kiddies like superman returns did?

For all it's faults, im actually glad returns didn't pander to teh lowest common denominator like brett ratner and tim story do.

superman returns sucked. terrible script, terrible writing, and nothing new. same villain, same real estate scheme.

and i'm sure you know that begins didn't focus on arrowheads, but then you're more interested in building up a straw man, aren't you?

 

[Mysterio]

Its a reason to worry because if the movie ISNT successful then we might not see more Batman films after TDK.

then i suppose you must live a fragile existence as well if you waste thought and energy over whether a movie does well. to let your life be so affected by something so trivial is a waste of life.

 

[The Kid]

superman returns sucked. terrible script, terrible writing, and nothing new. same villain, same real estate scheme.

and i'm sure you know that begins didn't focus on arrowheads, but then you're more interested in building up a straw man, aren't you?

what the hell is a straw man?

The whole beginnnig of begins was about that damn arrohead that meant nothing.

it may pop up in the dark knight though. who knows.

Well returns is such a dead horse. let's not get into it.

 

[MechaOrga]

Bale and Nolan have both been on record even before Nolan "officially" signed on that they weren't interested in doing something similiar to what has come before. Even concerning batman Begins. Nolan said the only way he would do a sequel is if the movie was very different than Begins.

So what does this mean to us? 1)maybe bruce will act different(new set of perrsonal problems now that his fear has been lifted. Maybe love related or self destruction bouts),
2) joker is not the grinning maniacal clown that we have come to know but a master thief/ technician who then suffers a huge gash to his face thus making him despise batman and fully accepting his "insanity"(hence adding green hair and red smear to his face) thus becoming a poilitical and personal anarchist.

This will not only be diffrent from your granpa's batman but probably from the begins film itself.

I'm a huge Begin's fan and a Nolan fan overall.
I think the new joker design is creepy as hell, the new suit a bit too busy for my tastes (but then so was the begins suit), and the Bat pod....well i dont know how I feel about that yet.