The Dark Knight "Not your grandpa's Batman..."

[The Kid]

No, the movie starts with them playing in the yard

so I was right? you guys are such bastards

 

[Sccmj23]

why? i enjoy the movies, i enjoy the characters, and i enjoy reading and talking about them. i just don't worry about whether a movie does well.

Because this thread is about the Batman movie franchise doing well and you come in and tell us we all live meaningless lives because we are concerned with it. THATS why you should stop posting here. You try to be smart by making a bold statement basically calling us all losers and now you are going back on it because everyone is calling you out on how stupid it was for you to say that.

 

[Sccmj23]

so I was right? you guys are such bastards

LOL...Yeah the very first scene after the bat logo goes away is young Bruce and Rachel running through the garden after finding the arrowhead.

 

[Mysterio]

Because this thread is about the Batman movie franchise doing well and you come in and tell us we all live meaningless lives because we are concerned with it. THATS why you should stop posting here. You try to be smart by making a bold statement basically calling us all losers and now you are going back on it because everyone is calling you out on how stupid it was for you to say that.

i'm not going back on it at all; i'm not retracting anything. i said that anyone worried over a movie doing well leads a fragile existence. that doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't enjoy it. it is entertainment, after all.

 

[Baba Ghanoush]

You're worrying about the stuff that doesn't really matter. The first thing you need to do is get preconceived notions out of your head. There's only so much you can translate from comic book to screen. Nolan is giving us his vision of Batman. It will delight people and infuriate others. The bottom line is that nothing can be as bad as Schumacher's films. So at best TDK will be an incredible film, at worst it'll be mediocre. Just sit back and enjoy the ride otherwise you'll miss it.

 

[Sccmj23]

i'm not going back on it at all; i'm not retracting anything. i said that anyone worried over a movie doing well leads a fragile existence. that doesn't mean you can't or shouldn't enjoy it. it is entertainment, after all.

My point is it's pretty harsh to tell someone that they live a fragile existence just because they are concerned about a movie doing well. You should've known you'd get flamed for saying something like that on a Batman movie forum. If you're telling us we are living a fragile existence then you may as well tell us we are all losers because we like the idea of a grown man dressing up like a bat and fighting crime. It just seems stupid to me to come onto a forum like this and say something like "then i suppose you must live a fragile existence as well if you waste thought and energy over whether a movie does well. to let your life be so affected by something so trivial is a waste of life." Thats just moronic. I doubt anyone here lays in bed at night thinking "Oh my goodness, I hope The Dark Knight is successful. If it isnt, I'll have to commit suicide". The reason we responded to this thread was to discuss our concerns with TDK being popular enough and appealing to a wide enough audience so that we can SEE MORE BATMAN FILMS. That doesnt mean we live "fragile existences".

 

[DieSmiling]

she's a huge ***** to bruce? Frankly I'm drawing blanks about rachel's behavior.

I'm caught up more in what the significance of it being an arrowhead was. I thought he'd use it as batman later on and it'd be this climactic tool because the film focused so much on this little arrrowhead or whatever that these kids are playing with, but it plays no real role later except in that part were katie gives it to him as a gift then it's never mentioned again, (crappiest gift ever. The man's back from the dead and he gets a useless arrowhead). I think it could have been all axed completely since its role is so minor. Maybe that's just me....

I think you just don't remember the film that well. The film really doesn't focus on it at all, it's just a minor plot device, and it functions well as part of the Bruce/Rachel storyline.

 

[Sccmj23]

I think you just don't remember the film that well. The film really doesn't focus on it at all, it's just a minor plot device, and it functions well as part of the Bruce/Rachel storyline.

Exactly, its in about two scenes total and its there just for symbolism to show the friendship/relationship between Rachel and Bruce. Its really not that big of a part of the movie.

 

[Schlosser85]

The whole first half of Batman Begins is about the arrowhead that they show for about ten seconds? Uh-huh.

then i suppose you must live a fragile existence as well if you waste thought and energy over whether a movie does well. to let your life be so affected by something so trivial is a waste of life.

Well you wasted the thought and energy just to come here and tell us that, so who lives the fragile existence and is wasting their life again?

 

[fabman]

the movie's biggest problems is that it's poorly written. conceptually and artistically I think it stomps all over begins.

Oh, dear God, no! I don't think that conceptually and artistically Superman Returns stomps over Batman Begins. I'm not a SR hater but lots of things were overdone in that movie and sure Bryan Singer's directing wasn't, to me, on par with Christopher Nolan. I really enjoyed The Usual Suspects but it's since his debut that he hasn't fully convinced or entertained me.

will a darker more mature batman film alienated the kiddies like superman returns did?

I guess we'll see. But that's not the problem, I think that despite it being darker, it'll be entertaining aswell. Christopher Nolan definitely knows how to balance storytelling and character development with action and adventure.

For all it's faults, im actually glad returns didn't pander to teh lowest common denominator like brett ratner and tim story do.

Well, it's sad that Bryan Singer didn't do anything special with SR. It was standard, average at best. I was quite bored when I watched it, but I liked it, it was good to see Superman back on the screen. But more than that...

 

[Sccmj23]

Well you wasted the thought and energy just to come here and tell us that, so who lives the fragile existence and is wasting their life again?

Exactly.

 

[The Kid]

Oh, dear God, no! I don't think that conceptually and artistically Superman Returns stomps over Batman Begins. I'm not a SR hater but lots of things were overdone in that movie and sure Bryan Singer's directing wasn't, to me, on par with Christopher Nolan. I really enjoyed The Usual Suspects but it's since his debut that he hasn't fully convinced or entertained me.

Singer's easily the more artistically skillfull director and can shoot fights pretty well so I think the majority are on my side with this one, not that theses people's movies don't speak for themselves. Watching all of singer's films really feels like something religious. While begins feels like more of a law and order ep.

I guess we'll see. But that's not the problem, I think that despite it being darker, it'll be entertaining aswell. Christopher Nolan definitely knows how to balance storytelling and character development with action and adventure.

Yeah we'll see how it goes. What I want is for him to embrace the comic's bold style and actually indulge in a backwards bat-punch anything that's well shot and beautifully done like a comic panel if possible.

Well, it's sad that Bryan Singer didn't do anything special with SR. It was standard, average at best. I was quite bored when I watched it, but I liked it, it was good to see Superman back on the screen. But more than that...

<- this isn't special? This took some hefty balls to introduce in the first superman movie in decades. it's probably the biggest risk any comicbook director's ever taken since nipples on a batman suit.

 

[Mysterio]

Well you wasted the thought and energy just to come here and tell us that, so who lives the fragile existence and is wasting their life again?

i think you misunderstand. worrying is a waste of thought and energy, especially over something that is trivial and one that no one has any control over the outcome. we all enjoy the movies (for the most part), and we certainly all enjoy the characters, we enjoy talking about them, and we look forward to being entertained, but taking it to a level where one actually worries is, imo, pretty sad.

 

[Keyser Soze]

Why has ANOTHER thread become about "Let's debate the merits of Batman Begins VS Superman Returns with Weyseed"?

It's a fruitless argument. Weyseed goes around saying stuff like "Everyone in Begins acted badly except Katie Holmes," just to be contrary.

Responding to the original post, I don't think you have to worry. The thing about "Batman Begins" is, it made a lot of changes to the comics when it came to the details too. But what made it successful was that it captured the heart, the essence of the comics. I think we should expect the same thing with "The Dark Knight". The Joker may look different when it comes to some of the details, but in terms of his persona, and Heath Ledger's performance, I expect it to capture the spirit of the comics.

 

[The Kid]

I think you just don't remember the film that well. The film really doesn't focus on it at all, it's just a minor plot device, and it functions well as part of the Bruce/Rachel storyline.

i think it doesn't function well enough to afford even a second of screen time, that's all. I'd just have left the thing out since it did't do much more than serve a plot device that really wasn't necessary. Same with the bat helmet breaking. I don't know why we needed to know he ordered faulty bat cowls... hey, some stuff was just a little over-done in begins, I think. it's not that big a deal now... it was just something I used to back up why I personally was bored with parts of the movie and possibly why temple's girlfriend was.

moving on to the big sequel coming out next year...

 

[fabman]

<- this isn't special? This took some hefty balls to introduce in the first superman movie in decades. it's probably the biggest risk any comicbook director's ever taken since nipples on a batman suit.

What th-?? That's balls? And what? Does it actually ad something to the movie? Damn, they should've got an Oscar b/c of that...

JONAH: Damn, Chris, what a c**p script we got...
CHRIS: Don't worry, let's put in Batman's son...
JONAH: Oh, my, we hava balls...

 

[fabman]

Why has ANOTHER thread become about "Let's debate the merits of Batman Begins VS Superman Returns with Weyseed"?

It's a fruitless argument. Weyseed goes around saying stuff like "Everyone in Begins acted badly except Katie Holmes," just to be contrary.

Yeah, you're right. Let's leave him alone! (W, you attention ****e )

 

[Keyser Soze]

Yeah, you're right. Let's leave him alone! (W, you attention ****e )

EDIT: Yeah, no point going further off-topic.

 

[MaskedManJRK]

well ths will definitely be nolan's batman returns.

You say that like that's a bad thing.

As for grandpa, screw him, he's going to die soon anyway.

Nah, but seriously, that really doesn't concern me. Old people are not really the main movie-going audience anyway. It's the kids, teens, and adults. All the older people I know don't even go to movies anymore, they just watch TCM.

 

[The Kid]

if some would read the thread, they'd know I didn't even bring the movie up first.

 

[superkong 500]

edit.

 

[NinjaTurtleFan]

Something has been concerning me, to an extent.

It feels like Nolan is worried that he's giving us a story that we all know and love, and it's pretty much standard Batman folklore.... so therefore, he has to make things dramatically different, just so we don't recognize what we've grown up with for years.

For example, who doesn't know the story of Batman's feud with Joker, or Joker's plot to destroy Gotham, or Harvey Dent's relationship to Batman and Gordon (Power of 3), and how Harvey is scarred, later becoming Two-Face? You can literally read this stuff right now by opening up your copy of The Long Halloween, The Killing Joke, Joker's Five-Way Revenge, The Man Who Laughs, and maybe even Year One still.

Batman Begins wasn't really standard folklore, because we were introduced to a lot of new stuff. We had never seen Ra's, Scarecrow, or Falcone on the big screen before, we didn't know who the hell Rachel Dawes was because she was written specifically for the movie, we never read in the comics about Bruce's seven-year absence from Gotham (years differ), because it was never presented to us. We never could've imagined that Henri Ducard would actually be the REAL Ra's Al Ghul (unless you spoiled yourself), because there's never been a story like that before.

The reason why I'm scared about TDK, is because we're not getting anything "new" to us this time, and because of that, it almost feels like Nolan is changing it up, just so it seems fresh. There's NOTHING wrong with adapting to the modern world, but when you see a Joker with big gashes going up to his ears, a Batman with heavily-padded armor, and an exotic "Bat-Pod", this is stuff you wouldn't see in most comics.

Now, before you think I'm bashing Nolan, I'm not. I really love what Nolan is doing. I totally respect this vision, and I've been 100% satisfied with everything I've seen so far (yes, I like Joker's appearance). I can't wait for this movie.

The issue I have... is the older audience. Old people went to Batman Begins, and hell... I saw a GROUP of old WOMEN go together, maybe in their late 50's - early 60's. Batman Begins appealed to a wide audience, much like Spider-Man, but the difference is, Spider-Man caters to the younger kids and the family-oriented. Batman Begins catered to a wide range of ADULTS. I babysitted an 8 year-old who was extremely bored with BB, because "there was too much talking", and I even sat down with my 19 year old girlfriend to watch BB, and even SHE said, "this is kinda boring."
Therefore, I definitely think BB was for a more mature, adult audience.

So if that is the audience that is expected to come to "The Dark Knight", will the older people who grew up with Batman (the serials, Adam West, the comics, the 60's cartoon, and all those Jack Nicholson-worshippers who say he can do no wrong), be turned off by this new vision of Joker and Batman?

It almost feels like this is too extreme (not for us, obviously.. nothing is too extreme for our generation, especially for me).

So if the old people are turned off by TDK, and the parents don't want to take their little kids to TDK because The Joker is too scary and gortesque.... we're losing two VERY big demographics, which makes me wonder if this movie might make less money than BB.
Am I wrong? Please discuss... I need to stop worrying, lol.

I see what you're saying, but they're were dark enough themes and elements in "Begins" to scare the crap out of the kiddies too. Scarecrow was one, the demon-looking Batman, the Bats attacking young Bruce, and the people being affected by the fear gas. All of those were things mothers would write angry letters to the studio for traumatizing their kids.

This Joker is new. Can't say I like the gas smile mainly because it just makes him look like he's got fish lips than a actual clown's. And I am also worried that Joker will bastardized the guy's story to make his own. Some on here say "Well as long as he has green hair, white skin, and that smile and laugh I'm fine with it" or put their faith in Nolan to the highest degree. That's fine if you love and worship Nolan, but if you're a fan of the source material, surely you wouldn't want to see a favorite character or villain be changed into something that doesn't even come close to who or what the character is all about/looks like/etc. So, far all I've seen is the green hair, white skin, raccoon rings around the eyes, and a smile that doesn't even resemble a smile. If Joker is made to be more of a deranged, scarred serial killer than I suppose Two-Face will be a guy with bits of his ear missing, one eye, charred lips, and a pulsating brain sticking out of his head. And if that's the case too than expect Mr. Freeze to just be a frost-bitten psychopath.

I don't mind the new suit, but wish the Bat signal was more bigger and dominant. Personally, I love the yellow emblem with the black bat graced over it from the Burton films and comics. I know these are Nolan's movies so it ain't going to happen, but it's time we get a grayer Bat suit than just an all black Bat suit. Though I understand why he has an all black suit is because he can hide in the shadows better.

The bike or Bat-Pod or whatever the hell it's called looks terrible. Personally, looking at the pics of Batman riding it, makes me feel Batman would get such a backache cruising around Gotham with it. Love the twin machine guns mounted on it though, but I really do want to start seeing the evolution of Batman's "wonderful toys" into the actual Batmobile, the actual Bat-cycle, and the Batwing. I mean it's time we see some kind of fighter-jet become the Batwing.

I also hope Gilda Dent is in this. I don't really want to see Harvey with Dawes. Dawes is such a useless character that I hope Ms. Gyllenhall actually makes it merit the screentime she has, because I still for the life of me don't understand why she is back.

I also hope the rumors are true and Anthony Michael Hall is Edward Nygma. I think it'd be cool to start him out as what he is currently doing in the comics, as a private detective solving murders and crimes. Here you could have him as a CSI, than we could suddenly see that behind the scenes, he's actually in cahoots with Maroni. Like he could be Maroni's little errand boy and he's the one behind the murders of the people he examines. He could make it where he solves the crimes and becomes a celebrity doing it, but he could pinpoint and frame other criminals to the murders. Then, we could see a cameo by Zsas. However, eventually he'd get tired of doing hitjobs for Maroni, and then would take on the alias of The Riddler. Batman would however be one step ahead of him and eventually catch him in the act. He'd then go to jail and come back in movie 3 or you could have him flee Gotham just to have him emerge as Riddler in movie 3 bamboozling everybody (even Batman).

 

[Sam18]

Lol Wesyeed is just being stupid on purpose right?

 

[Keyser Soze]

if some would read the thread, they'd know I didn't even bring the movie up first.

No, you said something clearly designed to prompt someone to mention "Superman Returns". Then, somebody did (followed by a couple of "Man, you fell for the bait!" responses), and then you launched into your usual "Why Superman Returns is better than Batman Begins" schtick.

But really, there's nothing more tedious than arguing about the cause of an argument, so let's not. So back to discussion on Nolan's reasons for updating...

 

[The Kid]

You say that like that's a bad thing.

no i didn't