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The Dark Knight Now that its said and done, what would you change?

Just because it isn't the obvious symbolism, it's still true that the cut could mean that Dent could part of the burning forest. And you just said you like when things were implied. :cwink:

And I like analyzing things. :hehe: I just read an analytical blog post that mentioned how the Joker liked using time and countdowns in his tests.

The fast cut reminded me of the fast cut in The Prestige when Cutter(alfred) tells Angier about the guy who was drowning and angier says "yes, you told me he said it was like going home" and Cutter tells him "i lied, it was agony" and they make a fast cut to Borden.

1. This is obviously Nolan style of quick cutting.
2. The story has to do with all the characters and the conflicts going on.
3. Nolan can come up with some great anecdotes
 
That was so obvious. Why didnt they shoot that part again? And yeah, Gary's accent came out there.

I dunno, I didn't notice Gary's pause until my second or third viewing, and I still don't hear the accent. :oldrazz:
He's most likely talking about the line, "All that was left in the vaults were mahked bills!!! They knew we were coming!!!"

It's possible that it was his English accent. But also, a friend's college roommate is from Chicago and speaks like that too. So he may have just been doing the Chicago talk you know? Dropping the "R's" (Car = Cah etc)

I also heard the accent went he was screaming in the prison, "Stand away!!! All of you!!!"
 
"All that was left in the vaults were mahked bills!!! They knew we were coming!!!" "Stand away!!! All of you!!!"
Those and "They knew we were cHoming!"

Anyway, it wasnt so bad. The worst part was dent waiting to get interrupted. Or was it vise versa? Whatever.

PS: Dude JaD, nice avy! Batman and Scarecrow shooting up the gas and facing off?
 
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Just a couple things:

1. After watching TDK for the first time, I was a little disappointed that Two-Face's origin had been changed. He has one of the most epic origins in all of supervillain history (okay, maybe that's a slight exaggeration) and we've never seen it done justice on the big screen.

I know that Nolan referenced it in Dent's court scene early in the movie, so that would have to be altered somehow. I would've introduced Dent in the courtroom but had something different - yet equally as cool as an assassination attempt - happen, and then I would've had Dent avoid being scarred in the warehouse explosion when Batman saved him. Then, Dent would be heartbroken because Rachel was dead but he would still be trying to put the mobsters away, but one of Maroni's henchmen would've got him with acid during the trial. *That* would've put him over the edge and turned him into Two-Face.

2. The only other thing I would've changed would be to have Bruce, Dent, and Gordon mourn a little more over Rachel's death. As it was, I thought Bruce especially got over her a little too quickly. Her death would've had more emotional resonance if we could've seen how deeply it effected everyone who knew her.

I'm well aware that adding my scenes would've pushed the movie to three hours, but we can never get enough Batman, Joker, and Two-Face now can we? :grin:
 
Just a couple things:

1. After watching TDK for the first time, I was a little disappointed that Two-Face's origin had been changed. He has one of the most epic origins in all of supervillain history (okay, maybe that's a slight exaggeration) and we've never seen it done justice on the big screen.
Oh come on, how can you day this, didnt you see Batman Forever?
:hehe::hehe::grin::grin:
As it was, I thought Bruce especially got over her a little too quickly. Her death would've had more emotional resonance if we could've seen how deeply it effected everyone who knew her.
And here we go.....again!
In b4 a thousand posts.
 
BF was pretty faithful in that regard, the Two-Face origin. Even though you can clearly see the acid (or was it grape juice) spilling ALL OVER his face, not just the right side :hehe:
 
The main thing I'd change is Two-Face's death To me he was the PERFECT set up for the next movie, killing off mob and thus causing the freaks to take over, and leaving Bats alone with no one to truly have hope for. And then comes Dick Grayson *ducks the bricks* and oyu know the rest. But even if it doesn't have Robin for me it would be the perfect set up. So basically i'd give him a Dark Victory style "death", them being as sure as they can be of his death without finding the body. It ends the same way, but the next one all the heroics are sadly undone by Dent's return, causing the city to lose all hope until Bats steps up to take that place.
 
The main thing I'd change is Two-Face's death To me he was the PERFECT set up for the next movie, killing off mob and thus causing the freaks to take over, and leaving Bats alone with no one to truly have hope for. And then comes Dick Grayson *ducks the bricks* and oyu know the rest. But even if it doesn't have Robin for me it would be the perfect set up. So basically i'd give him a Dark Victory style "death", them being as sure as they can be of his death without finding the body. It ends the same way, but the next one all the heroics are sadly undone by Dent's return, causing the city to lose all hope until Bats steps up to take that place.
Niiice! I like it!
I just dont know any interesting stories about Two-Face and thus i dont know whether i'd like him in the next movie. Not that there havent been any good stories about him, but i really cant see him as serious a threat as the joker was in TDK. Just another mob boss or a freak tearing **** up. But not as threatening as the joker was. He will look inferior. And i also dont know whether he can be used to symbolise something just like the other villains in the Nolan movie. Besides, we already know him, and a new movie always has to bring new things to the table.

I believe that the next movie needs to top this one, just like TDK did with Begins. They should introduce a good love interest (Talia or Catwoman) and a serious mega-villain. But i really dont know who.
The Riddler? I dont know what you guys find in him apart from his delicious riddles.
The penguin? Only as a secondary villain.
Scarface? Pah-lease!
Clayface? Maybe, but knowing Nolan....

What about Hush?
-Bruce, i am a friend of yours from your childhood years.
-Uh... dont remember you. Rachel was my childhood friend!
-Come on bruce... BBF! Oh SNAP i secretly hate you now because your father saved my mother!
-Dude! Who the hell are you?
-Hahaha! Thats so...bruce!
 
The only thing I would have changed would be I would have possibly alluded to other villains in the future.
 
Maybe add a scene between the Joker and Scarecrow, nah, I'm just being greedy, it was perfect the way it was.
 
I liked how the updated suit worked for the movie itself, and it was an improvement over BB's one...especially since Bale was slimmer and didn't look at stocky/short, and his cheeks didn't bunch up as much with the mask on. I think the more free-moving neck area also helped keep things in proportion, but it all was a bit too future-warrior, and they kept the ears curved-in like the last movie which still looks a bit too goofy. Overall, it did work well in the shadows and especially riding the batpod. But...the TDK mask, as it was on the BB one, was still to egg-shaped. As in the first movie, it didn't take away from the movie enough to kill the enjoyment. I just think some straighter ears would have given things a better overall impact....

batearsiu9.jpg
 
Two-Face should've actually been a second violent personality as opposed to just a pissed off Harvey Dent.
 
I'm not asking about major changes, like "perm-white Joker" (or, post that if you really want i guess). I'm asking for aspects within the film that you would have tweaked for a more satisfying experience. Also, I want to point out again that i loved TDK, i'm a huge film buff all around and TDK is still my favorite film of the year.

1. Video Game Sonar view
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The only moment that takes me out of the film. I really hate the sonar vision. I don't hate the idea that Batman uses sonar while Foxx runs the program, it's kind of cool and reminds me of of the oricle a bit. I just hate how he can pan up and down like a video game, how you can see shadows and facial features, how the camera glides in and out with ease.

If i could change it: the angle will never move away from Batman's vision and would look like actual sonar or even the Predator view. Anything is better.

2. Batman's gruffy voice
It didn't bother me at all in Batman Begins, but from seemingly the first scene in The Dark Knight, with the Hockey-pads line, it was just off. The cresendo of course being THe line "This city just showed you its full of people ready to believe in goooooood!" It really annoyed me when i watched it with a group of friends who just couldn't look past it.

If i could change it: i would have ADR work done and match it almost in the deep whisper Keaton had in Batman, the best Bat-voice, IMO.

3. Rachel...
Don't get me wrong, i think Maggie is a huge improvement over Holmes, but my God, are we supposed to like this character? Two scenes bugged me.

1. After Harvey avoids a fatal gunshot, she smiles, clenching his arm, "If your not getting shot at your not doing your job right!" She laughs. "I'm glad you are taking it so well Rachel..." I'm sorry, but wasn't her ex-boyfriend an Assistant D.A. who got SHOT IN THE BACK in Batman Begins? Whats wrong with this girl? Does she get off on this stuff? Would a normal person who react that way? Also, i think the scene where she accepts Bruces kiss and says "what kind of a live do you think they'll let us have together?" makes me dislike her. I know its a conflict for her, but seeing the **** Harv goes through for her as well as the revenge he gets as Two-Face in her name makes me wonder why this gal is even worth it. You might say it makes her more three-dimensional as a character, maybe you are right, but it doesn't change my opinion of her.

If I could change it: i would get rid/change the first scene and change the second scene to: Bruce leans in to kiss, she puts her hand in his cheeck but rejects. She asks "what kind of life do you think this city will let you have if you turn yourself in."

4. The fall from Wayne's Penthouse/Joker's Escape
Look, i'm not dumb. I can guess what happened. Batman puts one wing out, breaks their fall by having Rachel land on top of them. I also don't need the joker's escape spelled out for us, but i do think the pacing is off in that scene, as well as its transition to Gordon in MCU. Having Batman in almost no pain after that huge drop with extra weight diffuse the impact of his fall after dropping Harvey at the end. Are we supposed to belive he might be hurt after that? Come on, he survived the fall from the penthouse!

If I could change it: Have Batman use a grappling hook on the building as the fall, it connects, they swing toward the building, batman holds Rachel out, having his back hit a window. They go flying through into an empty room (maybe a bedroom, landing on a bed for comedic effect). Also, have the scene that was in the script of Joker and his men leaving before Batman could come back.

5. Two-Faces Voice
Simply, i think having Eckhart's voice practically the same after his burning is a huge mistake. I think it lowers the visual effect, we all know he wouldn't talk the same. Put your finger and stretch out one of your cheeks and talk. That alone sounds very different. Having his voice the same not only diminishes the effects work by making it all the more evident the whole effect was done in post, it also diminishes the event itself. He sounds exactly the same, if he didn't, i think it would help build the believabilty in his transformation.

if i could change it: Avoid ADR work, his on set line delivery is imprtant, just gruffle the voice more in post.
 
5. Two-Faces Voice
Simply, i think having Eckhart's voice practically the same after his burning is a huge mistake. I think it lowers the visual effect, we all know he wouldn't talk the same. Put your finger and stretch out one of your cheeks and talk. That alone sounds very different. Having his voice the same not only diminishes the effects work by making it all the more evident the whole effect was done in post, it also diminishes the event itself. He sounds exactly the same, if he didn't, i think it would help build the believabilty in his transformation.

if i could change it: Avoid ADR work, his on set line delivery is imprtant, just gruffle the voice more in post.
Dent doesn't sound exactly the same as Two-Face - he actually sounds a little more gruff. :oldrazz:

Nolan doesn't like ADR. The only stuff they absolutely had to ADR was the Joker goons in the prologue because they were talking under the masks, in addition with the IMAX camera flapping away. I highly doubt they ADR'd Eckhart as Two-Face, especially since his face WAS entirely intact during the whole shoot. :funny: I don't even think he's in any IMAX shots either, so they wouldn't have had to loop to hide the sound of the camera. Fichtner and Ledger's lines in the prologue were recorded live.
 
I actually liked the fast cut a lot. It's jarring, but it emphasizes that Dent is part of the collateral damage.


Did you notice how Gary paused for a moment mid-line, waiting for Aaron to "interrupt?" :oldrazz: I didn't notice the accent slipping, though.

That's a good point. After watching it a few times I don't mind it as much. The sort of build up in the music bothers me slightly, since it sounded like it'd go into something but then cut straight off.

But I can appreciate that it's giving you Alfred's and Bruce's view then Harvey's. The way it cuts to Harvey as well, him suddenly waking up helps the cut work as well since it's a bit of a jolt. Hopefully that makes sense.
 
Remove the Reese plotline.

I know we would have to exclude the Joker hospital scene, but I'm sure they could find a way to make that still work. The plot was a little busy, and narrowing it down to the essential core story would have been better, IMO.
 
After watching it for the first time in a few months, the party scene ... "your gonna love me" is so fast its like wtf did he say?
 
A few more things:

1. It would have been nice if Nolan could've somehow shown how Bruce knew that the Joker was coming for Harvey. It's not a big deal, but that plot hole irritates me. They just could've had a scene before the party where Bruce talks with his building's security and they offer to call him if there's any trouble. Or they could've shown him ducking into the bat panic room after Rachel left him and have him listen in on police radio.

2. A scene between Harvey and the Joker would've been awesome. Not Two-Face and the Joker, but Harvey and him. I don't know when it would've taken place though.

3. Instead of killing Richard Harvey and Patrick Dent, the Joker should've killed Richard James and Patrick Gordon. It would've made Gordon's plan to fake his own death more believable. As it was, it's never really established why Gordon thinks his family is in danger. I know it's because he's the head of MCU, but it's rough to put your family through that kind of trauma if you're not absolutely certain you're going to be a victim.
 
Remove the Reese plotline.

I know we would have to exclude the Joker hospital scene, but I'm sure they could find a way to make that still work. The plot was a little busy, and narrowing it down to the essential core story would have been better, IMO.
No way man! The Reese plot had two very important points to send across.
1) The joker doesnt want to live without batman.
2) Batman is willing to save Reese even though he would rat him out.
Sorry man, this looks bad. I like the original most.
 
2. Batman's gruffy voice
It didn't bother me at all in Batman Begins, but from seemingly the first scene in The Dark Knight, with the Hockey-pads line, it was just off. The cresendo of course being THe line "This city just showed you its full of people ready to believe in goooooood!" It really annoyed me when i watched it with a group of friends who just couldn't look past it.

If i could change it: i would have ADR work done and match it almost in the deep whisper Keaton had in Batman, the best Bat-voice, IMO.
IMHO, Batman doesnt whisper. Nolan has got it right. Batman should sound like a monster. I go back and watch BTAS, and even god almight Kevin Conroy isnt good enough anymore. Dont get me wrong, his voice is godly, but he needs to growl more as batman.
That said, its true that Bale's voice isnt perfect. I dont think that many people have the voice to pull that growl off. Nolan tried to use soundmagic on his voice to improve it, but in many occasions he failed. "Hockey pads" and "deep down, everyone's exactly as you" are FAIL.

I agree with you on (3) and (4). The fall could have been a lot better than the -now signature for Nolan- fall on top of a car. "Hurr hurr he has a superpower. Cars magically appear at the exact spot where he is going to land and act like pillows". It was good in Begins, but its getting too much. Especially when Rachel survives the fall. The grapple gun solution would have been a lot better.
And as for Rachel, watch the party scene again. When Bruce is making his speech about Dent, Dent tries to hug Rachel by offering his hand. She refuses. I suppose its because she is pissed at Bruce, but it makes her look obnoxious.
 
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Sorry man, this looks bad. I like the original most.

Well, it was only about a two-minute manip, but just something to take away that cone-heady look....kinda' like a hamster's head. Unfortunately, it looks the worst from the front.....

BB
batman_begins_big_051018100848275_wideweb__300x371,1.jpg


TDK
batman_milk_main.jpg
 
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I'm sorry, but this thread shows why most of you are not screenwriters. This for example:

I know that Nolan referenced it in Dent's court scene early in the movie, so that would have to be altered somehow. I would've introduced Dent in the courtroom but had something different - yet equally as cool as an assassination attempt - happen, and then I would've had Dent avoid being scarred in the warehouse explosion when Batman saved him. Then, Dent would be heartbroken because Rachel was dead but he would still be trying to put the mobsters away, but one of Maroni's henchmen would've got him with acid during the trial. *That* would've put him over the edge and turned him into Two-Face.

Ridiculous.
 
Well, it was only about a two-minute manip, but just something to take away that cone-heady look....kinda' like a hamster's head. Unfortunately, it looks the worst from the front.....

batman_begins_big_051018100848275_wideweb__300x371,1.jpg
batman_milk_main.jpg
The Begins cowl was shaped like a cone indeed much to my confusion. The TDK one is a vast improvement and the "realistic" batears suit it well.

The slimmer and totally vertical ears would work if the cowl was slim (like the comics or the Schumacher ones).
 
The Begins cowl was shaped like a cone indeed much to my confusion. The TDK one is a vast improvement and the "realistic" batears suit it well.

The slimmer and totally vertical ears would work if the cowl was slim (like the comics or the Schumacher ones).
I think the narrower/more maneuverable neck definitely helped, but still, the egg-shape is there towards the top. I actually think the BB/TDK cowl was slimmer to the head/face than the older versions overall. It's just that moving the ears up and inwards might have accentuated the roundness of the sides a bit too much. They could have made the ears point just a little straighter.


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