The Juggernaut, previously one of the most formidable bad guys in the Marvel Universe, has been a whiny ***** for years.
There. We said it.
And while we only said it,
New Excalibur writer Frank Tieri is looking to
do something about it in the upcoming three part arc (beginning with November’s #13), “Unredeemed.”
We spoke with Tieri about the character, his *****iness, and some of the possible upcoming changes…
Newsarama: First off, why the Juggernaut? What's the attraction for the character with you? Sell me - if he's not been portrayed as one-dimensional, he's got this weird, don't ask, please God, I don't want to know, relationship with Black Tom Cassidy. What makes you look at a character like that and think, "Yeah - that one's for me!"?
Frank Tieri: I like villains. I like tough guy characters. And this is a villain tough guy character, so you figure it out.
Or should I say,
used to be a villain tough guy character. Now? Hell, he isn’t a villain and he’s sure not as tough anymore. In fact, because of this, a vile, disgusting word has entered the comic book lexicon. It is a word I have vowed to completely and utterly destroy by the time my run is over.
That word is Huggernaut.
Look, whether or not I turn Cain back into a villain again by the time this thing is all done with—which a lot of people think I am—one thing is certain… after Unredeemed, you’ll never be able to refer to Cain Marko as the Huggernaut ever again. And that’s a promise.
NRAMA: So what about Black Tom? Will he be appearing in your arc? It’s pretty much the law if you’re going to do a Juggernaut storyline, you know…
FT: So don’t be so surprised when he pops up in issue 13 then, wise guy.
Now, getting to what you implied earlier about Cain and Tom’s relationship… ya know, I never really did get that. Why is it that two guys can’t be close in popular entertainment without somebody assuming everything’s gone all “Brokeback”? Can’t two guys just be pals anymore? And it’s not just here, we see questions raised about other famous duos all the time: The Lone Ranger and Tonto. Butch and Sundance. Batman and Robin. Sam and Frodo.
…
Ok, scratch that last one. Even I thought we were about to see some Hobbit on Hobbit action on Mount Doom for a minute there…
Look, I’ve always seen most of those characters as being more than best friends-- they’re like brothers. And that’s how I see Tom and Cain being and that’s how they’re portrayed here. Somebody once said “A friend helps you move furniture. A best friend helps you move a body.” That’s Tom and Cain to a t. As we’ll see in this arc, Tom knows where all of Cain’s bodies are buried—and that’s mainly because chances are he helped Cain move quite a few of them himself.
So folks, I’d focus my gay-dar elsewhere, if I were you. Like on Ice Man, for instance. I mean, even friggin’
Family Guy figured that one out, for crissakes.
NRAMA: Alright, alright…consider me chastised. So - catching up with where Cain is at the start of your arc...he's still on the side of the angels?
FT: He is. And I really believe that’s where he genuinely wants to be right now. But that’s the thing with life though, isn’t it? Just because we want something doesn’t mean we get it.
And that’s sort of what bugs me about Cain’s whole “transformation”—and it’s something that I address in this arc. Cain was welcomed to the “side of angels” as you put it, a bit too easily, for my taste. So Cain’s all sorry now and all is forgiven? Um… hello? Cain’s actually killed people, folks—and in the real world that means you can stick your “sorry” up your ass because you’re gonna end up rotting in jail, not running around in England making goo goo eyes at Dazzler. I mean, you don’t see them letting Charles Manson out on good behavior and having him join the Green Berets because he happens to be good with a knife, do you?
NRAMA: Power-wise, he's not where he used to be, right?
FT: Not even close. The Juggernaut was one of those villains that could go head to head with the likes of Thor and the Hulk. He was the guy when you saw his name in the solicits of your favorite book, you knew your favorite hero was going to catch a beating worthy of a red headed step child.
But now? Well, all you have to do is take a look at the fine Jim Califiore artwork we’ve provided to see he gets his big helmeted ass handed to him by the Tampa Bay Devil Rays of bad guys, the Wrecking Crew.
At this rate, a ***** slapping from Batroc should arrive any day now…
NRAMA: And lay him out, cold. Speaking of the Wrecking Crew, how do they see Cain now that he’s switched sides?
FT: You know, this is really something that I wanted to touch on in this story—how the “villain community” views all these characters that have switched sides over the years. And the Wrecking Crew, who really are representative of the “working class” of bad guys, is the perfect group of guys to take their temperature on this subject.
Cutting to the chase, they see Cain and others like him as sell outs. And they intend to make an example out of him.
NRAMA: What's responsible for his loss of power?
FT: Cyttorak, plain and simple. He ain’t too keen on Cain putting on a white hat these days, ya know?
I mean, I think people forget sometimes that Cyttorak is a demonic being. And as such, if you’re going to be his agent on Earth, you better believe you’re going to have to do some truly awful things to keep that position—and the power that comes with it. We’re going to explore how awful some of those things have been—and would Cain be willing to do them again to regain the power he’s lost?
Whatever the answers to those questions are, I will say this will all lead Cain back to the Temple of Cyttorak—where the Juggernaut was born—and a confrontation with Cyttorak himself… amongst others. And you know where Cain goes, the rest of Excalibur won’t be too far behind.
NRAMA: So I guess Cain’s loss of power doesn’t sit too well with him. Your story is called "Unredeemed" after all...
FT: How would it sit with you? Let’s say you could lift 250 pounds in the gym. And then one day, you can only lift 100 or even 50? Wouldn’t that affect you? Wouldn’t that affect your confidence, affect how you carry yourself, how you deal with others and with situations—in other words, wouldn’t that affect who you are?
One of the themes of my run here has been addiction. Wisdom’s cigarettes, the Black Knight’s sword, etc—and now Cain’s power. And for those of you who don’t think power can be addicting, ask Barry Bonds or Raphael Palmero or any of these countless of other athletes who risk their health, careers, legacies, etc just so they can get that extra rush when they hit a baseball farther than anybody else.
Now, let’s put it in the context of being the Juggernaut… how much of a rush do you get from lifting a mountain? Or smashing a building? Or punching out Colossus?
And now ask yourself—how far would you go to get that feeling back? How far will Cain go?
NRAMA: Ok, so obviously, Cain's tempted here to go back...but aren’t there temptations from the other side as well? After all, a life with heroes means not being on the run 24/7; not having to fight all the time...
FT: Well, that’s really what Cain has to weigh here—the power he had or the life he has now. Cain likes where he is now, and I think that all things being equal, he’d stay exactly where he is. But the question he comes to ask himself is… is it all worth it? It’s where the title of the storyline—Unredeemed -- comes into play. Here he is, doing the “right thing” in trying to be a hero and he’s losing the means for him to be a hero anyway—so what is he really accomplishing here? This all brings us to the biggest question of the whole arc-- can someone like Cain ever truly redeem himself for the things he’s done? Can nothing he do ever be enough? Or will he forever be unredeemed?
NRAMA: I know you’ve hinted that you’re going to reveal some fairly big things about Cain Marko’s past and that of the Juggernaut mythos itself. So tease away, my good man...tease away.
FT: Ok, in no particular order, consider yourself teased:
--We’ve always been under the assumption that Cain Marko was the first, original, Juggernaut. We’ll learn that’s not necessarily the case. (I’ve always found it strange that Cytorrak—a centuries old being—would wait until the Korean War to get himself an agent on Earth, don’t you?)
-- We’ll learn what one actually must do to become the Juggernaut. (And believe me, it’s a Hell of a lot more difficult than just touching the gem)
-- We’ll learn why exactly, out of all the X-Men’s enemies, Onslaught chose the Juggernaut to go after first. And if you think it’s just because Xavier didn’t like his step brother, you’re dead wrong
-- And finally, we’ll learn some of the things Cain’s done as the Juggernaut. And believe me folds, it ain’t pretty
she is a Claremont creature, until February we won't see her the way she is supposed to be. I'm kinda curious as to who is going to be the regular artist, since Ryan is leaving to Runaways.
