Official discussion on why "Nice Guys" have a hard time getting the girl.

This is all very amusing. Seriously, why complain about not being able to get with someone way out of your attractiveness-league and then blame it on the girl for being as equally shallow as you were in the first place?

If the girl was not good looking...you wouldn't have noticed her, so why should she give (average) you the time of day. If she hooks up with someone she finds hot and he treats her like crap, well then, that's what happens when you don't vet someone.
 
This is all very amusing. Seriously, why complain about not being able to get with someone way out of your attractiveness-league and then blame it on the girl for being as equally shallow as you were in the first place?

If the girl was not good looking...you wouldn't have noticed her, so why should she give (average) you the time of day. If she hooks up with someone she finds hot and he treats her like crap, well then, that's what happens when you don't vet someone.

Because in the comics, on tv shows, and movies, the geek always gets the hot girl at the end...that means it should work in real life as well. :csad:
 
You guys just have to learn how to catch women better.

235133103_5b88d66c99.jpg
 
You attract them by putting a jerk, a**hole and or *****ebag in the trap as bait.
 
http://writeorflight.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/*****e12.jpg

:huh:
 
This is all very amusing. Seriously, why complain about not being able to get with someone way out of your attractiveness-league and then blame it on the girl for being as equally shallow as you were in the first place?

If the girl was not good looking...you wouldn't have noticed her, so why should she give (average) you the time of day. If she hooks up with someone she finds hot and he treats her like crap, well then, that's what happens when you don't vet someone.

Lmao, tell 'em... I can't believe this hadn't been said before (at least that I'd seen).
 
This is all very amusing. Seriously, why complain about not being able to get with someone way out of your attractiveness-league and then blame it on the girl for being as equally shallow as you were in the first place?

If the girl was not good looking...you wouldn't have noticed her, so why should she give (average) you the time of day. If she hooks up with someone she finds hot and he treats her like crap, well then, that's what happens when you don't vet someone.

yea...pretty much....people need to know their limitations.....a lot of you out there need to become familiar with a word called "settling"...because that's what most of us are going to end up doing
 
yea...pretty much....people need to know their limitations.....a lot of you out there need to become familiar with a word called "settling"...because that's what most of us are going to end up doing

Uh, dude, I don't think that's what she was getting at. To me, it sounded more like those "nice guys" that are complaining about "never getting the girl," are nine times out of ten unattractive guys wanting the smokin' hot woman, no matter her personality... Thus making the "nice guy" just as shallow for liking her as the girl is for turning you down over your looks.

Not that you should settle for uglier because you're ugly.
 
Well, if she's asking for your help, that means she's not having a good time. She might have just been humoring the guy, hoping he'd take a hint she's not interested, then saw you and thought you might be able to help get rid of the guy. You did make a huge mistake there.



You completely screwed up on this one. If you wanted to do something with her on Valentine's you should have made plans. Second, why should she do something nice for you, when from your post says you had absolutely no plans to do something nice for her. Testing the waters isn't asking her to do something nice, it's asking her out.



The fact that you wanted something on Valentine's and were disappointed when you didn't get it shows you do have feelings. Problem is, you've lost your opportunity, you had a good number of opportunities to change this relationship but screwed everyone of them up. Not showing up to her birthday, asking her to do something for you on Valentine's while not planning to do anything for her, not helping her out (as a friend) when she asked you. From your posts there were plenty of times/opportunities to change this, this isn't a case of you being a "nice guy" it's a case of you ignoring missing obvious signals.

Points well taken, and I'm willing to accept the possibility that I was an idiot in the situations.

The reason I didn't show up to her birthday - it was just a gathering of friends from work she had invited, and she had only mentioned it to me in passing. It was at a very fancy bar with like $10 parking and a $15 cover charge, and WAY overpriced drinks. At the time, I had literally about $3, so I wouldn't have been able to buy her any drinks or anything anyways. I literally couldn't afford to go.

As far as the helping outside the work thing goes, again, I saw no signs of anything wrong there. When she asked me for help, she was not in the least bit serious, completely joking in the matter, laughing as she said "come take care of this guy", and when I told her she was on her own, she left on her own anyways, away from the guy. More than anything, it seemed like a friend she was playing along with, and was getting me into the mix. It didn't even seem like a "this guy's creeping me out, please help" in a playful way.

Kinda like if you, me, and a friend of yours go out to a bar. You and your friend are chopping it up, having fun, and in jest you 2 start trashing each other, talking junk and stuff, and you begin to ignore him and start talking to me. "So Nell, how bout them Steelers" type thing.

And again for Valentine's Day, the reason why I asked her what she was going to do for me, well that was advice taken directly from my sister-in-law. One of the pieces of advice that she continues to give me with picking up women is to make them buy ME drinks, make them buy ME dinner. Because if I can get her to buy ME dinner, then I've gotten her interested in me.

My sister-in-law is an awesome chick, who is both the down to earth girl with very good morals, and also the hot chick that'd you'd see out at the bar getting drunk with her friends. Being that type of girl herself, I'd think she'd know pretty well how to get those types of girls (and myself living in a college town and working in a restaurant, those are quite often the types of girls that I encounter).

She basically gives me advice on the types of things that would get her interested in me, if she were one of those girls that I encounter and was trying to get a date with. How I'd go about successfully getting a date with her. Having known her for about 7 years now, and knowing how bad ass of a chick she is, I really wouldn't be doing too poorly to land a girl of my own like her.

Again, I'm completely willing to accept that I was wrong in this situation and I botched any chance with her. I'm not saying I wasn't interested AT ALL. I'm just saying that I never really felt any connection from her, and when I felt there was a slight possibility she might be interested, it was more along the lines of "Why not? I could date a girl like her".

I also know that I sometimes have a problem picking up signals. When I was in high school, I was the complete opposite. I was the kind of guy that pretty much thought that ANYTHING from a girl was a "signal", and I went through some really bad situations with the opposite sex (and yes, I realize they were my own fault).

Now I have gone the complete opposite way. I pretty much don't look into ANY kinds of signals, because I don't want to be the guy that misreads nothing as something. Some of my good friends have told me that I "over-analyze" everything, and in trying not to do that, I miss certain signals that are probably pretty obvious to the rest of us. Shoot, with my last "relationship", it pretty much took her coming out and telling me that she wanted to have sex with me for me to get that she was into me. I had suspicions beforehand, but didn't want to seem like I was over-analyzing and making a big deal out of nothing.
 
Uh, dude, I don't think that's what she was getting at. To me, it sounded more like those "nice guys" that are complaining about "never getting the girl," are nine times out of ten unattractive guys wanting the smokin' hot woman, no matter her personality... Thus making the "nice guy" just as shallow for liking her as the girl is for turning you down over your looks.

Not that you should settle for uglier because you're ugly.
So what exactly should they settle for? I mean, exactly what should a guy who's considered "average" settle for, because people find different things attractive and unattractive.
 
So what exactly should they settle for? I mean, exactly what should a guy who's considered "average" settle for, because people find different things attractive and unattractive.

I don't believe you can generalise on something like this... trying to fit the rules of attraction into a post. It just doesn't work. People just need to realise that they are not going to get what they want all the time. Everyone is different, and people's tastes vary greatly.

You should know and accept who and what you are, but don't limit yourself... be open to possibilities yet not expect them.
 
So what exactly should they settle for? I mean, exactly what should a guy who's considered "average" settle for, because people find different things attractive and unattractive.

The problem is, you're looking at it like "settling." You don't "settle" for a great girlfriend even if she's not exactly a 10 out of 10. "Settling" is what you do when you don't get the hottest date for prom you expected, and that, as Goddessreicho said, makes you just as much of the ******* as the girl who turns you down because of your looks.

My advice? Stop hunting all the hottest girls you can find, because believe me, when you like a girl enough, she'll look pretty hot to you no matter how she looks (to an extent :p). What they say is really true- looks don't matter, as you'll become physically attracted to a girl when you really care about her anyway.

I'd also go so far to say that the "hot chicks" won't date overweight "nice" guys because of the fact that they don't properly take care of themselves (and don't use excuses for being overweight, that turns girls off even more than being overweight- admit you have a problem and do something about it if you don't like it). That said, I've seen some gorgeous girls turn up with some fatties at my work, so it's not all said and done.
 
Uh, dude, I don't think that's what she was getting at. To me, it sounded more like those "nice guys" that are complaining about "never getting the girl," are nine times out of ten unattractive guys wanting the smokin' hot woman, no matter her personality... Thus making the "nice guy" just as shallow for liking her as the girl is for turning you down over your looks.

Not that you should settle for uglier because you're ugly.

This is actually a rather interesting point.

Personally, I do feel that attraction is an important part of it. A relationship is just as much physical as it is emotional.

That said, I don't care how physically attractive a woman is, if she doesn't have a winning personality, she is not attractive to me.

My problem isn't always so much getting rejected, it's the manner of which I get rejected.

I rarely have a woman tell me that she just simply isn't interested in me. They either lead me on for an extended period of time, or they are just simply rude about it. I really hate it when I tell a woman "If you aren't interested in going out, that's fine" and she says "Oh no, it's not that, I WOULD like to go out", but then she never wants to take action on it.

One of the worst rejections I got was a few years ago. I had met this girl at school, and her and I really clicked. We started spending a lot of time together, and she really opened up to me. She told me some really personal things about herself, about her family, and opened up to me a lot about her future plans for her life.

One day after classes I asked her if she would like to go grab some ice cream. She proceeded to make excuses as to why she couldn't, and then she never spoke to me again.

That's what I hate. I've been rejected actually a few times by mature women who handled the situation like an adult. Another girl I met at school told me that she didn't date younger men (I was 18 at the time, and when I began talking to her didn't realize she was almost 26), and that she was also talking to someone else, and she wasn't interested in anything more than a friendship. Because she was upfront about it, I ended up keeping in touch with her for awhile longer because she treated me like an adult.

Sometimes people just aren't attracted to other people. And that's okay.

Just act like an adult about the situation. If you don't want to go out on a date, don't say that you DO want to go out on a date.
 
I think in general people men and women want to be cordial (You're a nice guy but...) and rather want to avoid an uncomfortable situation (Listen, I'm not into you...).

It's up for discussion what's worse being rejected with subtlety or being rejected full on.

With the former, you have enough relationship experience, it's apparent what's not being said, while with the latter, it could be more of a blow to the ego.
 
I think in general people men and women want to be cordial (You're a nice guy but...) and rather want to avoid an uncomfortable situation (Listen, I'm not into you...).

It's up for discussion what's worse being rejected with subtlety or being rejected full on.

With the former, you have enough relationship experience, it's apparent what's not being said, while with the latter, it could be more of a blow to the ego.

Depends on the person, I prefer when a woman just lets me know upfront that she is not interested, all that other stuff like handing out fake numbers or leading a guy on is just silly to me, I dislike my time being wasted
 
Is it really that hard to read signals? :huh:
 
Eh, I usually do a 2 - 3 strike rule. If I'm interested in someone, and they keep canceling or making up excuses, regardless if they tell me they are interested in me, if I keep putting the ball in their court and they say oh yeah sure, and then puss out, I just walk away. :huh:
 
Is it really that hard to read signals? :huh:

Dude come on not all signals are easy to read especially not when you are dealing with a professional who gives you all the right signs but is not really interested

Eh, I usually do a 2 - 3 strike rule. If I'm interested in someone, and they keep canceling or making up excuses, regardless if they tell me they are interested in me, if I keep putting the ball in their court and they say oh yeah sure, and then puss out, I just walk away. :huh:

Who could not read that?

I was talking more about the approach, when you talk to a girl and try to gain her details
 
Like I said, after a while, it's all on you if you are interested in someone who gives you all the rights signs and keeps flaking out. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. :huh:
 
Yes!

It's not an attractive quality being too available for someone.
 
Who could not read that?

I was talking more about the approach, when you talk to a girl and try to gain her details

At most what you waste a couple of hours buying some girl a drink and then 5 minutes on subsequent phone calls?
 

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