Official JLA discussion thread - Part 2

Status
Not open for further replies.
I'm just saying it's all about the writing. A boring story is a boring story. If a writer thinks that the fact that it's a hetero romance will be enough, they are so wrong.


I actually prefer romance stories about males and robots. :D


:ff: :ff: :ff:
 
I dont see anything bad about Bruce or Wonder Woman enjoying sex and being sexually active
Someone of Batman's personality has always stricken me to be a bit sexually repressed. He's a person who always has his guard up and just doesn't let many people in.

Hell, my favorite scene in the new Batman: Year One DTV is where they expanded the scene of Gordon's interrogation of Bruce Wayne where it's revealed that the exotic woman that Bruce was slept with was actually call girl that he didn't sleep with and the alcohol was actually grape juice. Bruce then tells her that she shouldn't complain because it was the easiest $5,000 she ever made and she leaves telling Bruce and Alfred that they're weird.

Batman sleeping with fewer women also really raises the significance of the few women he has really loved like Selina Kyle, Talia al Ghul, Silver St. Cloud, and Julie Madison. That these were the women who got him to drop his constant protective guard.

Why do you feel Morrison made Bruce a '****e' hippie_hunter
Because Morrison's Bruce sleeps around. A lot. Morrison's Batman is essentially a ****e. He knew what Jezebel Jet was up to right from the very beginning and yet he still slept with her. He also had Bruce sleep with Kathy Kane, who was his aunt by marriage. And Selina Kyle. And he also established Bruce cutting off romantic relationships and would only focus on physical sexual relationships with women.

And Wonder Woman having a girlfriend would make her love life far more interesting to me if it was well written. As I find same sex romances in fiction far more interesting than opposite sex romances
If they gave Wonder Woman a real love interest, I'd rather it be the Brave and the Bold interpretation of Steve Trevor. He's just so into being the Dude in Distress

[YT]xyKXBxK82LE[/YT]

Also, I think it's just far too late to make Wonder Woman a bisexual or lesbian. Wonder Woman has been depicted as a heterosexual since her creation in 1941. It kinda goes against 70 years of character development. If they're going to make LGBT characters, they should be relatively newer characters that aren't firmly established heterosexuals or characters that are introduced as LGBT.

I find the vast majority of opposite sex romances in fiction dull and utterly uninteresting :down
The vast majority of any romances are dull and boring.
 
Last edited:
I'm just saying it's all about the writing. A boring story is a boring story. If a writer thinks that the fact that it's a hetero romance will be enough, they are so wrong.


I actually prefer romance stories about males and robots. :D


:ff: :ff: :ff:

Robosexual romance is :awesome:

Shift/Indigo was adorable back in Winnick's Outsiders :up:

I also ship Wanda with Ultimate Vision. Because it combines my love of same sex romances with my love of robots
 
Someone of Batman's personality has always stricken me to be a bit sexually repressed. He's a person who always has his guard up and just doesn't let many people in.

Hell, my favorite scene in the new Batman: Year One DTV is where they expanded the scene of Gordon's interrogation of Bruce Wayne where it's revealed that the exotic woman that Bruce was slept with was actually call girl that he didn't sleep with and the alcohol was actually grape juice. Bruce then tells her that she shouldn't complain because it was the easiest $5,000 she ever made and she leaves telling Bruce and Alfred that they're weird.

Batman sleeping with fewer women also really raises the significance of the few women he has really loved like Selina Kyle, Talia al Ghul, Silver St. Cloud, and Julie Madison. That these were the women who got him to drop his constant protective guard.

That be true but a big part of Bruce's character development lately has been about him becoming less repressed and grim.

If they gave Wonder Woman a real love interest, I'd rather it be the Brave and the Bold interpretation of Steve Trevor. He's just so into being the Dude in Distress

[YT]xyKXBxK82LE[/YT]

Also, I think it's just far too late to make Wonder Woman a bisexual or lesbian. Wonder Woman has been depicted as a heterosexual since her creation in 1941. It kinda goes against 70 years of character development. If they're going to make LGBT characters, they should be relatively newer characters that aren't firmly established heterosexuals or characters that are introduced as LGBT.

She's clearly not a lesbian but I have always thought of Wonder Woman as bisexual and I've never thought she was heterosexual. I think its clear she's bisexual and I think her coming out of the closet as being attracted to both genders would be absolutely fab :up:
The vast majority of any romances are dull and boring.

I find the majority of lgbt romances I've seen in fiction very interesting and fun personally. They are the kind of love stories I love
 
Last edited:
Do you mean the one from the miniseries or the horrible one from Ultimates
 
That be true but a big part of Bruce's character development lately has been about him becoming less repressed and grim.
Correct. And it's a great character development. I'm not a fan of Batdick.

However, the one thing I don't like about Batman's characterization in the New 52 is how he treats women as disposable sexual playthings. He sleeps with Charlotte Rivers in Detective Comics all while constantly blowing her off and has sex with Catwoman at the same time (which Alfred even says in Detective Comics). Meanwhile in Catwoman, he has sex with Catwoman pretty much to fulfill his bizarre sexual fetishes.

She's clearly not a lesbian but I have always thought of Wonder Woman as bisexual and I've never thought she was heterosexual. I think its clear she's bisexual and I think her coming out of the closet as being attracted to both genders would be absolutely fab :up:
The problem with that viewpoint is that Wonder Woman is a firmly established heterosexual. I prefer Wonder Woman being asexual like Athena, but even I will admit that the character is heterosexual. She's not bisexual at all. All of her love interests have been men. What do Steve Trevor, Batman, Superman, Aquaman, Nemesis, Mike Bailey, Keith Griggs, Trevor Barnes, etc. have in common? They all have penises.

Even Marston wrote her as a heterosexual where even though he clearly hinted that the rest of Paradise Island were straight up lesbian, she falls in love with a man. Wonder Woman is written to be a minority in Amazon society. While most of society is lesbian, she's attracted to men (sorta like how in Man's World, most of society is heterosexual while homosexuals are a minority). Most want nothing to do with Man's World and yet she wants to venture into it.

I find the majority of lgbt romances I've seen in fiction very interesting and fun personally. They are the kind of love stories I love
The majority of romances are written horribly because most people don't understand how love works. Heterosexual romances are doomed because writers act as if mere physical attraction is enough (Twilight and Thor are the worst offenders at this). And homosexual romances are doomed because most writers don't know how to write gay people period (Will and Grace is the worst offender here).
 
Correct. And it's a great character development. I'm not a fan of Batdick.

However, the one thing I don't like about Batman's characterization in the New 52 is how he treats women as disposable sexual playthings. He sleeps with Charlotte Rivers in Detective Comics all while constantly blowing her off and has sex with Catwoman at the same time (which Alfred even says in Detective Comics).

That's true his behaviour in Detective towards Charlotte is awful. But that's written by Tony Daniel not Morrison

In the Morrison comic books though its clear the majority of his sexual relationships are casual he's never been portrayed as cheating on any of the women he's been involved with.

Meanwhile in Catwoman, he has sex with Catwoman pretty much to fulfill his bizarre sexual fetishes.

I don't see that as a bad thing as both of them are enjoying their relationship

Batman and Catwoman getting kinky with the costumes on gets a :up: from me

The problem with that viewpoint is that Wonder Woman is a firmly established heterosexual. I prefer Wonder Woman being asexual like Athena, but even I will admit that the character is heterosexual. She's not bisexual at all. All of her love interests have been men. What do Steve Trevor, Batman, Superman, Aquaman, Nemesis, Mike Bailey, Keith Griggs, Trevor Barnes, etc. have in common? They all have penises.

But there has been tons of subtext between her and other female characters. Most of it deliberate especially in Rucka's stories

Another reason he is my favouritest Wonder Woman writer

The majority of romances are written horribly because most people don't understand how love works. Heterosexual romances are doomed because writers act as if mere physical attraction is enough (Twilight and Thor are the worst offenders at this). And homosexual romances are doomed because most writers don't know how to write gay people period (Will and Grace is the worst offender here).

I have to disagree. I absolutely adore lgbt romance stories and I can hardly think of any that I've not liked. Same sex romance stories are the kind I'm interested in most of all and I love watching them on tv or in movies or reading about them in comic books and books. Almost all of my favourite fictional couples are either two guys or two girls together :hrt:
 
That's why Thor and Sif should be together. They have way more in common than Thor and random-Earth-girl Jane. :argh:

... What were we talking about?
 
There's nothing bad about s&m/fetish or bisexuality though sidekick

As a female Wonder Woman fan I can honestly say i would love the character more if she was a kinky bisexual :up:

Kurosawa's post had nothing to do with her being bisexual. He only mentioned the Amazons being bisexual or lesbian. Only thing he said pertaining to her was the kinky and fetish-filled stuff. So that is what I was referring to.

And it is not about what you or I think is right or wrong. I don't mind if people are into that; that's not what I'm talking about. There is more of an uproar than ever before of people caring about how women are perceived in comics. So take arguably the most iconic and popular of all women characters in comics, Wonder Woman, and you are likely to see people go ballistic if in a new mainstream comic all those "kinky and fetish-filled stuff" Kurosawa mentions her creator doing occurs in today's comics. The other issue people had with Catwoman and Starfire (putting aside the explicit sex scene in Catwoman and putting aside Starfire acting like a bimbo) was that there were panels that were drawn purely to look sexual to serve as "TnA for male readers". That doesn't even bug me but it bugged the hell out of a lot of people.

So I can only imagine the uproar if in a modern day comic you see WW getting tied up in the manner and ways the original creator did with MODERN type of art style...
 
Thor has THREE women. He had an early romance with Brunhilde too.


It's good to be the Prince.



:thor: :thor: :thor:
 
He also made out with Storm once, has on-again/off-again trysts with the Enchantress and her sister Lorelei, got roped into an engagement when he was forced to assume the mortal life of Jake Olson, and probably has a few other conquests I'm forgetting. Thor gets around. :cool:
 
Kurosawa's post had nothing to do with her being bisexual. He only mentioned the Amazons being bisexual or lesbian. Only thing he said pertaining to her was the kinky and fetish-filled stuff. So that is what I was referring to.

And it is not about what you or I think is right or wrong. I don't mind if people are into that; that's not what I'm talking about. There is more of an uproar than ever before of people caring about how women are perceived in comics. So take arguably the most iconic and popular of all women characters in comics, Wonder Woman, and you are likely to see people go ballistic if in a new mainstream comic all those "kinky and fetish-filled stuff" Kurosawa mentions her creator doing occurs in today's comics. The other issue people had with Catwoman and Starfire (putting aside the explicit sex scene in Catwoman and putting aside Starfire acting like a bimbo) was that there were panels that were drawn purely to look sexual to serve as "TnA for male readers". That doesn't even bug me but it bugged the hell out of a lot of people.

So I can only imagine the uproar if in a modern day comic you see WW getting tied up in the manner and ways the original creator did with MODERN type of art style...

Here's a question....since when are people being pissed off about what they do ever stopped them from doing it?

They could take the character back to her roots, people will be pissed, and they'll sell an extra 100,000 copies on the press alone.
 
What is the story on that "love triangle" anyway?
When Thor was living as the lame human doctor Don Blake, Jane Foster became his nurse. She loved him and he loved her, but she couldn't admit her feelings because it was the '60s and ladies didn't do that, and he couldn't admit his feelings because he found it inconceivable that a woman like Jane would ever love a cripple. Then Don went to Norway and found the cane that would turn him back into Thor, learned of his true life as the god of thunder, and was still in love with Jane, who was more than willing to return Thor's affections. But Odin didn't like the idea of Thor being in love with a mortal, so he first reintroduced Thor to Sif, a fellow warrior and an old flame who had waited for him during his exile on Earth. Thor remembered her but was still in love with Jane. So Odin granted Jane godhood because he knew it would overwhelm her mortal senses, which it did. She was suitably scared away and she and Thor basically broke up.

Thor and Sif didn't get back together right away, though. Thor still pined for Jane a bit, so she was cool and let him deal with his stuff. Then Jane wound up on the verge of death and Sif, realizing that Thor still loved her, merged her soul with Jane's, effectively sacrificing herself so Jane could live. Jane recovered and eventually started displaying more badass tendencies due to Sif's soul. Then, for no apparent reason, Sif and Jane swapped places. They investigated and found that some evil wizard or something was messing with their connection, so the connection was broken and Jane and Sif were fine, but Jane lost her memory of Thor, Blake, and everything. She disappears for a while. Thor and Sif kind of flirt with a romance but never really appear to be a steady couple.

Jane reappears years later as the wife of Keith Kincaid, another handsome blonde doctor who bears an uncanny resemblance to Blake. Jane's memory is still dodgy, but Thor realizes she and Kincaid are in love and leaves them be. This is like the late '70s. Thor and Sif get back together then split up because Thor hits her while under a spell. Jane and Kincaid have a baby. Sif decides to date Beta Ray Bill. Thor bounces from lady to lady without any real commitment. Sif and Bill split up. Sif and Thor flirt with romance again.

Thor gets banished to some nether-realm for killing Loki and his then-human-host Eric Masterson takes his place as the new god of thunder. Eric, a divorced dad with part-time custody of his son Kevin, grows closer to Sif. Eric learns that Thor is not truly dead and decides to bring him back. When he does, Thor and Sif jump wholeheartedly into a relationship. Eric gets put under a spell that makes him want Sif and he and Thor fight over her. Thor soundly kicks his ass and retakes his hammer while Eric, free of the spell, is given the mace Thunderstrike. Eric dies after a short career as a superhero.

Thor goes through a whole bunch of stuff and he and Sif break up again (not sure why this time because this is an area of Thor's series I haven't actually read yet). The gods are stripped of their powers and Thor finds that the Enchantress can magically restore his powers. He and the Enchantress start shacking up shortly after this. Onslaught happens and Thor is one of the heroes who seemingly dies. Heroes Reborn happens and then Thor and the other heroes return to the mainstream Marvel Earth, but Thor, due to a fight with Dr. Doom, is waylaid and winds up on some alien planet with a woman he comes to love. She dies (don't remember the specifics too well). Thor returns to Earth and promptly gets killed by the Destroyer. He must be bound to Jake Olson, an EMT who died in the crossfire of the fight, as penance for his carelessness in order to come back. Jake was engaged to a single mom, which creates a ton of problems for Thor. Jake's boss at the ER turns out to be nurse-turned-doctor Jane Foster, which creates more problems.

Thor's father Odin dies, leaving Thor to take up the crown. He and Jake Olson are split into separate entities, except the real Jake Olson's soul had already gone to Heaven, so the "Jake Olson" that appeared was actually Thor's humanity given form--leaving, for those keeping track, Thor without his humanity. The humanity-less Thor takes the Enchantress as his queen, ultimately kills "Olson" for opposing him, and proceeds to meddle far too much in human affairs over the next few hundred years, culminating in a big cosmic do-over that requires him to rejoin himself with "Olson" and undo his previous actions. Before he goes back in time to do this, he stops before a frozen-in-time Sif and tells her, "It should have been you. Had I been whole, it would have been." (He also says goodbye to Magni, his son with the Enchantress, who will now never be born.)

Then Thor returns to the present and Ragnarok happens, ultimately destroying Asgard for what seems like the final time.

But then Don Blake pops back into existence and, realizing what's happened, reclaims Mjolnir and convinces Thor to return to the land of the living. (Blake and Thor are more separate entities with their own thoughts and opinions now than they were before.) He does so and eventually brings Asgard with him--except Sif, whose body Loki has hijacked. Her spirit is left in the body of a dying old woman under the care of--surprise, surprise--Jane Foster! Turns out Jane has divorced Keith and left custody of their kid to him. She sees Blake again and admits her feelings for him (note: him, not Thor) and Blake reciprocates. Thor continues searching for Sif before ultimately finding her when Loki reveals he's in her body (spinning things so that it seems like it was all an accident, of course). Reunited, Thor and Sif get back together. She sees Beta Ray Bill with his new girlfriend (long story) and resents him a bit, but then she goes back to doin' it with Thor and seems all right. So now Thor and Sif are together (or were, until Thor died again at the end of Fear Itself) and the Jane/Blake thing has basically been dropped because, it seems, no one other than JMS was interested in writing about Don Blake again. Although, Jane did move to Oklahoma to open a clinic in the town Blake lived in and Thor put Asgard to float near.

That's probably way more than you wanted, but I can't stop once I get going. :oldrazz:
 
Last edited:
Bah! You left out...

ValOdin2.jpg


:thor: :thor: :thor:
 
Yeah, whatever, back in ye olde viking days, Thor and Brunnhilde had a fling too. :oldrazz:
 
You know, when you think about, Thor's died more often than Jean Grey.
 
When Thor was living as the lame human doctor Don Blake, Jane Foster became his nurse. She loved him and he loved her, but she couldn't admit her feelings because it was the '60s and ladies didn't do that, and he couldn't admit his feelings because he found it inconceivable that a woman like Jane would ever love a cripple. Then Don went to Norway and found the cane that would turn him back into Thor, learned of his true life as the god of thunder, and was still in love with Jane, who was more than willing to return Thor's affections. But Odin didn't like the idea of Thor being in love with a mortal, so he first reintroduced Thor to Sif, a fellow warrior and an old flame who had waited for him during his exile on Earth. Thor remembered her but was still in love with Jane. So Odin granted Jane godhood because he knew it would overwhelm her mortal senses, which it did. She was suitably scared away and she and Thor basically broke up.

Thor and Sif didn't get back together right away, though. Thor still pined for Jane a bit, so she was cool and let him deal with his stuff. Then Jane wound up on the verge of death and Sif, realizing that Thor still loved her, merged her soul with Jane's, effectively sacrificing herself so Jane could live. Jane recovered and eventually started displaying more badass tendencies due to Sif's soul. Then, for no apparent reason, Sif and Jane swapped places. They investigated and found that some evil wizard or something was messing with their connection, so the connection was broken and Jane and Sif were fine, but Jane lost her memory of Thor, Blake, and everything. She disappears for a while. Thor and Sif kind of flirt with a romance but never really appear to be a steady couple.

Jane reappears years later as the wife of Keith Kincaid, another handsome blonde doctor who bears an uncanny resemblance to Blake. Jane's memory is still dodgy, but Thor realizes she and Kincaid are in love and leaves them be. This is like the late '70s. Thor and Sif get back together then split up because Thor hits her while under a spell. Jane and Kincaid have a baby. Sif decides to date Beta Ray Bill. Thor bounces from lady to lady without any real commitment. Sif and Bill split up. Sif and Thor flirt with romance again.

Thor gets banished to some nether-realm for killing Loki and his then-human-host Eric Masterson takes his place as the new god of thunder. Eric, a divorced dad with part-time custody of his son Kevin, grows closer to Sif. Eric learns that Thor is not truly dead and decides to bring him back. When he does, Thor and Sif jump wholeheartedly into a relationship. Eric gets put under a spell that makes him want Sif and he and Thor fight over her. Thor soundly kicks his ass and retakes his hammer while Eric, free of the spell, is given the mace Thunderstrike. Eric dies after a short career as a superhero.

Thor goes through a whole bunch of stuff and he and Sif break up again (not sure why this time because this is an area of Thor's series I haven't actually read yet). The gods are stripped of their powers and Thor finds that the Enchantress can magically restore his powers. He and the Enchantress start shacking up shortly after this. Onslaught happens and Thor is one of the heroes who seemingly dies. Heroes Reborn happens and then Thor and the other heroes return to the mainstream Marvel Earth, but Thor, due to a fight with Dr. Doom, is waylaid and winds up on some alien planet with a woman he comes to love. She dies (don't remember the specifics too well). Thor returns to Earth and promptly gets killed by the Destroyer. He must be bound to Jake Olson, an EMT who died in the crossfire of the fight, as penance for his carelessness in order to come back. Jake was engaged to a single mom, which creates a ton of problems for Thor. Jake's boss at the ER turns out to be nurse-turned-doctor Jane Foster, which creates more problems.

Thor's father Odin dies, leaving Thor to take up the crown. He and Jake Olson are split into separate entities, except the real Jake Olson's soul had already gone to Heaven, so the "Jake Olson" that appeared was actually Thor's humanity given form--leaving, for those keeping track, Thor without his humanity. The humanity-less Thor takes the Enchantress as his queen, ultimately kills "Olson" for opposing him, and proceeds to meddle far too much in human affairs over the next few hundred years, culminating in a big cosmic do-over that requires him to rejoin himself with "Olson" and undo his previous actions. Before he goes back in time to do this, he stops before a frozen-in-time Sif and tells her, "It should have been you. Had I been whole, it would have been." (He also says goodbye to Magni, his son with the Enchantress, who will now never be born.)

Then Thor returns to the present and Ragnarok happens, ultimately destroying Asgard for what seems like the final time.

But then Don Blake pops back into existence and, realizing what's happened, reclaims Mjolnir and convinces Thor to return to the land of the living. (Blake and Thor are more separate entities with their own thoughts and opinions now than they were before.) He does so and eventually brings Asgard with him--except Sif, whose body Loki has hijacked. Her spirit is left in the body of a dying old woman under the care of--surprise, surprise--Jane Foster! Turns out Jane has divorced Keith and left custody of their kid to him. She sees Blake again and admits her feelings for him (note: him, not Thor) and Blake reciprocates. Thor continues searching for Sif before ultimately finding her when Loki reveals he's in her body (spinning things so that it seems like it was all an accident, of course). Reunited, Thor and Sif get back together. She sees Beta Ray Bill with his new girlfriend (long story) and resents him a bit, but then she goes back to doin' it with Thor and seems all right. So now Thor and Sif are together (or were, until Thor died again at the end of Fear Itself) and the Jane/Blake thing has basically been dropped because, it seems, no one other than JMS was interested in writing about Don Blake again. Although, Jane did move to Oklahoma to open a clinic in the town Blake lived in and Thor put Asgard to float near.

That's probably way more than you wanted, but I can't stop once I get going. :oldrazz:

I got lost not even half way.
 
How about I paraphrase?

Jane loves Don
Don loves Jane

Don finds out he's Thor, Jane REALLY loves Don.
Odin's like, f**k that, here bang Sif.

Thor's like, eh.
Jane becomes Goddess, freaks out and leaves.

Thor sad. Bangs Sif.

Sif bangs horse.

Everybody dies.

Everybody comes back

Jane loves Don again.
Thor loves Sif.

Thor dies again.

Also Thor banged a couple of Valkyries at one point or another. :o
 
Yea, I got the gist of it re-reading just...it's moreso confusing in the middle.
 
All comic characters history is confusing if they've been around for more than 10 years.....and even then.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top
monitoring_string = "afb8e5d7348ab9e99f73cba908f10802"