Official New Avengers Discussion Thread!

Not really if you think about it.
yes really. assassination is never what the avengers should be about. they work with the law, so catch the bad guys and let the courts decide their fate.
I actually really like the idea of X-Force and wouldn't mind seeing an Avengers version of the same thing. I don't think it could carry an entire ongoing, and I dunno who would be on it, but it could be pretty cool to me.
seems to me that's more or less what millar's ultimate avengers is, after the first arc anyway.
 
yeah, ya know what? the more I think about it, the more I dislike that idea. the Avengers should be this shining example of heroism and what heroes strive to be a part of.

I change my mind. ignore what I said about it.
 
My problem with Spider-Man is that he's on both Avengers and New Avengers.

It does bugs me that Spider-Man is in both titles, he should just be in Avengers and have DD replace him in NA.

Well, we don't technically know WHO'S behind those Spidey masks on the two teams right now, so it might not be Peter Parker on both teams.

After all, we have "Spider-Man" on two Avengers teams right now: New Avengers and Dark Avengers. ;)
 
Avengers with a wetworks squad like X-Force?

HEEEEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLLLLLL NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

No one should take inspiration from Kyle and Yost.
 
Well, we don't technically know WHO'S behind those Spidey masks on the two teams right now, so it might not be Peter Parker on both teams.

After all, we have "Spider-Man" on two Avengers teams right now: New Avengers and Dark Avengers. ;)

Peter on one and Ben on the other
 
See, I wouldn't mind that. But I would imagine that Ben would wear a variation of the suit.
 
The Avengers and the Justice League have saved the world dozens of times over without resorting to murder and and lethal force.

I like the concept of X-Force, but that doesn't mean that I see them as heroes. I see them the same way Corp does, their actions are borderline villainous. They have no place in the Avengers until they get their acts together. The same way Ollie should not be in the Justice League until he gets his act together.

Thor uses Lethal force, hell hes been killing monsters and his enemeis for thousands of years, Captain America is a trained killer, and killed during world war 2. Hank Pym is a unstable, and The Hulk is a rampaging moster with a low IQ. Tony stark always uses lethal force, and he has been unstable at times.
 
There is a difference though. They kill in single combat or whatever. A wetworks team like X-Force is given hit jobs and the like. That sorta team has no place in the Avengers.
 
There is a difference though. They kill in single combat or whatever. A wetworks team like X-Force is given hit jobs and the like. That sorta team has no place in the Avengers.

Oh I agree, Hippie_Hunter said the members of that team had no place on the avengers.
 
Thor uses Lethal force, hell hes been killing monsters and his enemeis for thousands of years, Captain America is a trained killer, and killed during world war 2. Hank Pym is a unstable, and The Hulk is a rampaging moster with a low IQ. Tony stark always uses lethal force, and he has been unstable at times.
Thor kills demons and giants and such when there's no other option and refused to do even that on Earth for years out of respect for modern society's standards. Captain America is a soldier who's killed in battle but absolutely, positively does not kill if there's any possible way to avoid it; there are several stories devoted to hammering home that very point, in fact. Tony's been using a lot of lethal force since Civil War, but before that he generally tried to avoid it. Not as hard as Cap or Thor or most of his fellow Avengers, but he did try most of the time.

The rest of your points don't even make sense. Having an unstable mind does not magically equal murderer. Hank Pym's got a lot of neuroses, but he's been fully in control of his actions since he recovered from his Yellowjacket period when he hit Jan around 30 years ago. The Hulk's got his math-powered ability to avoid killing people, although he does still kill now and then. Plus, the Hulk's barely an Avenger in the first place. He helped the other founders out against Loki and then turned on them in the very next issue.

In any event, your entire post neglects one major fact: A willingness to kill is not equal to being an assassin. X-Force is a team of assassins whose sole purpose is to murder people. The Avengers are not in any way, shape, or form anything like that. Never have been, never should be (although with current writers, who knows what they might be reshaped into one day).
 
Well, we don't technically know WHO'S behind those Spidey masks on the two teams right now, so it might not be Peter Parker on both teams.

After all, we have "Spider-Man" on two Avengers teams right now: New Avengers and Dark Avengers. ;)
Oh come on, stop kidding yourself. It's Peter Parker under the suit on both titles.
 
I'm sure i saw someone called Scarlett Spider in Avengers: The Initiative 34. Who was that?
 
Thor kills demons and giants and such when there's no other option and refused to do even that on Earth for years out of respect for modern society's standards. Captain America is a soldier who's killed in battle but absolutely, positively does not kill if there's any possible way to avoid it; there are several stories devoted to hammering home that very point, in fact. Tony's been using a lot of lethal force since Civil War, but before that he generally tried to avoid it. Not as hard as Cap or Thor or most of his fellow Avengers, but he did try most of the time.

The rest of your points don't even make sense. Having an unstable mind does not magically equal murderer. Hank Pym's got a lot of neuroses, but he's been fully in control of his actions since he recovered from his Yellowjacket period when he hit Jan around 30 years ago. The Hulk's got his math-powered ability to avoid killing people, although he does still kill now and then. Plus, the Hulk's barely an Avenger in the first place. He helped the other founders out against Loki and then turned on them in the very next issue.

In any event, your entire post neglects one major fact: A willingness to kill is not equal to being an assassin. X-Force is a team of assassins whose sole purpose is to murder people. The Avengers are not in any way, shape, or form anything like that. Never have been, never should be (although with current writers, who knows what they might be reshaped into one day).

What are you talking about?
 
Thor kills demons and giants and such when there's no other option and refused to do even that on Earth for years out of respect for modern society's standards. Captain America is a soldier who's killed in battle but absolutely, positively does not kill if there's any possible way to avoid it; there are several stories devoted to hammering home that very point, in fact. Tony's been using a lot of lethal force since Civil War, but before that he generally tried to avoid it. Not as hard as Cap or Thor or most of his fellow Avengers, but he did try most of the time.

The rest of your points don't even make sense. Having an unstable mind does not magically equal murderer. Hank Pym's got a lot of neuroses, but he's been fully in control of his actions since he recovered from his Yellowjacket period when he hit Jan around 30 years ago. The Hulk's got his math-powered ability to avoid killing people, although he does still kill now and then. Plus, the Hulk's barely an Avenger in the first place. He helped the other founders out against Loki and then turned on them in the very next issue.

In any event, your entire post neglects one major fact: A willingness to kill is not equal to being an assassin. X-Force is a team of assassins whose sole purpose is to murder people. The Avengers are not in any way, shape, or form anything like that. Never have been, never should be (although with current writers, who knows what they might be reshaped into one day).

and when they thought about killing someone it caused a major rift in the team
 
Yep, the decision to summarily execute the Supreme Intelligence drove Cap right off the team and threw the remaining members into disarray.
What are you talking about?
Your idea that because the Avengers have members who've killed, they should open their doors to coldblooded assassins like the members of X-Force.
 
Yep, the decision to summarily execute the Supreme Intelligence drove Cap right off the team and threw the remaining members into disarray.

Your idea that because the Avengers have members who've killed, they should open their doors to coldblooded assassins like the members of X-Force.

Oh, just because they were assassins before, doesnt mean they cant be heroes on the avengers.
 
the Avengers shouldnt be about killing....neither the X-men for that matter
 
Or create a X-Force style Avengers wet works squad.
Yeah, that wouldn't work either. Those proactive, take-no-prisoners teams are never effective in the long run and would undermine the Avengers' moral authority if their existence ever came to light.
 
Oh, just because they were assassins before, doesnt mean they cant be heroes on the avengers.

agreed. I am sure Black Widow killed people while working for the russians but the moment they become Avengers assassination and murder go out the window
 
Oh, just because they were assassins before, doesnt mean they cant be heroes on the avengers.
If they've left X-Force and reformed, sure, the fact that they've killed before doesn't mean they can't be Avengers. But dual membership between the Avengers and X-Force should be a no-no. One of the many reasons I hate the fact that Wolverine's an Avenger.
 

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