Official 'The Hobbit' Thread - - - - Part 13

[regwec]

Shake his hand from me.

 

[ThePhantasm]

He doesn't have a hand, remember? Only hind legs.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Despite the whimper of the Hobbit films against the might of the LOTR trilogy, there is nothing so utterly horrible in the former as there is in the PT. At least Jackson can still direct his actors. Sir Ian expressed passionate negativity in acting on a sterile, computerized environment, Jackson then did his best to accommodate a more organic setting. That tells me he didn't lose it completely. Whereas poor Portman, Hayden and Ewan had to make friends with blue sheets of cold cloth for three films.

 

[Octoberist]

The prequels remain pretty nasty to this very day ill admit.

 

[ThePhantasm]

What prequels?

 

[Spider-Who?]

I don't think we see all four limbs all at once but you see what has to be forelegs when he is crushing through the dwarven forces.

Apparently, though, Lucas... I mean Jackson changed that scene in the extended edition.

So he still has 4 limbs; it's just that his front legs are attached to his wings. Makes total sense.

The fact that we have to have someone provide gifs (thank you, btw) so that we can analyze the shot shows just how insignificant this particular complaint is.

 

[jonathancrane]

What prequels?

The prequels remain pretty nasty to this very day ill admit.

Despite the whimper of the Hobbit films against the might of the LOTR trilogy, there is nothing so utterly horrible in the former as there is in the PT. At least Jackson can still direct his actors. Sir Ian expressed passionate negativity in acting on a sterile, computerized environment, Jackson then did his best to accommodate a more organic setting. That tells me he didn't lose it completely. Whereas poor Portman, Hayden and Ewan had to make friends with blue sheets of cold cloth for three films.

These.

 

[regwec]

So he still has 4 limbs; it's just that his front legs are attached to his wings. Makes total sense.

The fact that we have to have someone provide gifs (thank you, btw) so that we can analyze the shot shows just how insignificant this particular complaint is.

Of course it doesn't. What backward logic that is.

What is shows is that a point was easily refuted by a simple use of readily available evidence.

 

[Quasimod0]

It should be a yes. But unless you're a huge fan of the books it seems you might be annoyed.

Huge fan of the movies, not so much of the books. Havent even read the hobbit actually, although i have read the lord of the rings.

Depends. Are you okay with multiple actions cenes that don't really serve any role for the story? Do you want more Legolas?

At the end of the day, my favorite scene is ironically a pointless combat scene, the Orcs vs. Elves vs. Barrel Dwarves is just, it makes you cheer, it makes you laugh, it makes you facepalm, it's just so over the top fantasy, it's Bilbo on pipe-weed telling the most over the top story to Frodo Baggins.

I do however feel the movie's 3rd arc stretches too long, and if i was Peter Jackson i would have moved all the Don Goldur plot elements to the 3rd movie and made Smaug the sole antagonist of the movie, but i understand that thematically they wanted Azog and Sauron to be a presence in all 3 movies.

I love over the top fantasy. t: lol. And i love legolas. So I'm sold.

 

[Spider-Who?]

Of course it doesn't. What backward logic that is.

From an anatomical standpoint, having wings attached to the forelimbs does in fact make total sense.

What is shows is that a point was easily refuted by a simple use of readily available evidence.

The point that has been argued is whether the design change is some astronomically huge deal, due to what can or cannot be seen in AUJ, not if there was any evidence, period. The fact is that the shot in question is so quick and tightly framed that the design change really is NOT a big deal, (it also does not show 4 legs, only two, so technically, the gif only shows that the design of the legs changed, but that's neither here nor there since we're talking about the number of legs) especially considering the fact that someone HAD to post evidence to prove it - if the original Smaug had been shown enough in AUJ that such evidence was not needed, then I would agree that the design change might be an issue, but that isn't the case here.

 

[Silvermoon]

I don't think we see all four limbs all at once but you see what has to be forelegs when he is crushing through the dwarven forces.

Apparently, though, Lucas... I mean Jackson changed that scene in the extended edition.

No gonna lie, I am a bit disappointed they opted to change the design from a 6-limbed dragon to 4-limbed (where the wings count as a set of limbs). For me it's mainly because I feel like we'd already got the 4-limbed Wyvern style when we had the Nazgul's fellbeasts in the LOTR trilogy. When I saw AUJ in the theater and there was a front claw breaking down the door and then him walking on four legs down that hall (first gif), the indication being he was 6-limbed in that made me really excited for this movie to see how he'd finally turn out when we see him in all his glory onscreen.

Now maybe as they got down to it they felt something wasn't working with the 6-limbed design, and I can understand that, and I imagine he is quite different still from the fellbeasts. My slight disappointment is still there though (there's just something about a traditional 6-limbed dragon that I love). I doubt, however, it will affect my enjoyment of the movie when I see it Saturday morning though I can't wait.

 

[Persona]

Times Review of The Desolation of Smaug:

Tolkien is rolling in his grave.

this ain't your grandfather's Tolkien, lol.

to be honest, though, Tolkien's been rolling in his grave ever since FotR came out.

 

[regwec]

He's picked up pace, though. The earth is getting loose. PJ keeps a 12 gauge under the bed.

 

[ThePhantasm]

Tolkien's been rolling in his grave ever since FotR came out.

FOTR was a very faithful adaptation. Sure it probably had some elements Tolkien would disapprove of, but hardly grave-rolling worthy.

 

[Persona]

Tolkien was pretty possessive of his vision and i dunno that any movie could have made him happy. it wouldn't have taken long into FotR to get him rolling, and Arwen, Warrior Princess alone would have been enough to get him going.

since Tolkien himself thought about retconning The Hobbit, so while i'm sure he wouldn't have liked any of the changes and additions that PJ and co. have made to that story, he might actually have minded them less than the alterations made to the LotR trilogy.

 

[regwec]

I doubt it. You may be right to say that he would have been less sensitive to alterations to The Hobbit in principle, but I feel that those alterations (ie dwarf dick) would have made him pretty angry.

 

[Marvolo]

No gonna lie, I am a bit disappointed they opted to change the design from a 6-limbed dragon to 4-limbed (where the wings count as a set of limbs). For me it's mainly because I feel like we'd already got the 4-limbed Wyvern style when we had the Nazgul's fellbeasts in the LOTR trilogy. When I saw AUJ in the theater and there was a front claw breaking down the door and then him walking on four legs down that hall (first gif), the indication being he was 6-limbed in that made me really excited for this movie to see how he'd finally turn out when we see him in all his glory onscreen.

Now maybe as they got down to it they felt something wasn't working with the 6-limbed design, and I can understand that, and I imagine he is quite different still from the fellbeasts. My slight disappointment is still there though (there's just something about a traditional 6-limbed dragon that I love). I doubt, however, it will affect my enjoyment of the movie when I see it Saturday morning though I can't wait.

I doubt he was ever going to be 6 limbed (4 limbs and 2 wing limbs). He was most likely gonna have four limbs and two wings or two limbs and two wing limbs like a bat. And lets consider that 6 limbs is prolly harder to animate than 4 or 2. These animators already have an insane load and really two limbs and two wing limbs while unoriginal is still a cool design.

 

[Persona]

I doubt it. You may be right to say that he would have been less sensitive to alterations to The Hobbit in principle, but I feel that those alterations (ie dwarf dick) would have made him pretty angry.

probably, but my basic point is simply that, from what i know of Tolkien, he would have hated all these movies.

or, even more likely, he would have refused to watch any of them and basically would have tried to ignore their existence.

 

[Spider-Who?]

I doubt he was ever going to be 6 limbed (4 limbs and 2 wing limbs). He was most likely gonna have four limbs and two wings or two limbs and two wing limbs like a bat. And lets consider that 6 limbs is prolly harder to animate than 4 or 2. These animators already have an insane load and really two limbs and two wing limbs while unoriginal is still a cool design.

I disagree with the unoriginal bit. Smaug is a dragon. There is little to nothing one can do when designing a dragon that hasn't been done countless times over the last 1000 years. Yes, the forelimb wing design has become the go-to over the years, but I think that has far more to do with the desire to make dragons seem more "real" or anatomically correct - there's a reason there are no organisms outside of insects that can/could sustain powered flight with 2 wings and 4 legs - they all had to evolve their wings from their forelimbs.

For me personally, I'd much rather look at a dragon and believe that it could actually fly than look at a dragon with a more traditional/less modern look.

 

[Octoberist]

To me there aren't 'real rules' to classify or design a dragon, an imagery creatures that's been around for thousands of years.

 

[ThePhantasm]

I doubt he was ever going to be 6 limbed (4 limbs and 2 wing limbs). He was most likely gonna have four limbs and two wings or two limbs and two wing limbs like a bat. And lets consider that 6 limbs is prolly harder to animate than 4 or 2. These animators already have an insane load and really two limbs and two wing limbs while unoriginal is still a cool design.

Are you saying they limited it to two limbs due to the animation load? **** if they want to cut down on the load while don't they use practical effects BOLG for one thing?

 

[Marvolo]

Are you saying they limited it to two limbs due to the animation load? **** if they want to cut down on the load while don't they use practical effects BOLG for one thing?

Here's a thought: which is more important to the story jackson is telling, Bolg or 2 unnecessary limbs on a dragon? You don't need those 2 forelimbs to enjoy this film, and if you do well then I don't know what to tell you other than try some xanax with the movie. Only in our spoilt fan mentality could we ***** about a cgi marvel like Smaug because he has 4 limbs instead of six.

 

[ThePhantasm]

But they already HAD a Bolg... ??

I'm just pointing out the absurdity of the argument that the animators lopped off two limbs just to save themselves some work.

 

[regwec]

But they didn't have a CGI Bolg. And all must be laid waste before the onslaught of blue screen.

 

[ThePhantasm]

"Oh we can't give the dragon four limbs because we had to replace an already badass looking practical effects character with a CGI version. Sorry."