Official 'The Hobbit' Thread - - - - Part 13

[Drz]

Am i the only one who kinda liked the idea of Beorn being a former slave to Azog?

 

[regwec]

After people *****ed about ROTK having about 6 never-ending endings, I wouldn't be surprised if this sucker punch ending to DoS was a massive kiss my ass from Jackson.

Is that a healthy attitude to have? Well, the fat bearded ****wit can kiss my ass- he's not getting a penny from me.

Am i the only one who kinda liked the idea of Beorn being a former slave to Azog?

A part of me thinks you really should have put that in spoiler tags; the rest of me is glad you didn't. Yet another reason to avoid this fanfic nightmare.

 

[vinsanity]

Am i the only one who kinda liked the idea of Beorn being a former slave to Azog?

No, you're not the only one

 

[Godzilla2000]

Is that a healthy attitude to have? Well, the fat bearded ****wit can kiss my ass- he's not getting a penny from me.

You're getting angry over personal speculation from someone posting in this thread?

 

[regwec]

No, I am retorting to a hypothetical in like spirit.

Edit: Just found some Tolkien artwork by the late Angus McBride, which I had never seen before.

The White Council storm Dol Guldur.



I like that Radagast about a thousand times more than PJ's.

I presume this is a Barrow Wight:



Not sure if any larger format versions exist.

 

[The Lizard]

After people *****ed about ROTK having about 6 never-ending endings, I wouldn't be surprised if this sucker punch ending to DoS was a massive kiss my ass from Jackson.

I think it was more a result of the somewhat late-in-the-game decision to make The Hobbit into 3 movies instead of just 2. There just wasn't a way to end it in a tidy manner without getting to the Smaug vs black arrow scene - which should have been done in this part IMO, but I'm far past caring what happens in these movies at this point.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

After people *****ed about ROTK having about 6 never-ending endings, I wouldn't be surprised if this sucker punch ending to DoS was a massive kiss my ass from Jackson.

Congrats Peter. You don't have the measured disposition to receive criticism without immaturely plotting to one up your criticizers, destroying an ending to a film in the process.

 

[Drz]

I keep wondering why Kili, Fili, Bofur and Bifur we're left at the Laketown, is itr to provide more action sequences there or (Hobbit 3 AND BOOK MASSIVE spoilers):

Spoiler

Will Fili and Kili bite the dust faster? Kili and Fili will die in the Battle of the Five Armies, but i wonder will more characters die, like for example, will Tauriel die? Or will she continue her immortal live, missing what was inside the trousers of a dwarf)

 

[Liam_H]

Watching the movie I got a strong feeling [BLACKOUT]Tauriel will die, either by noble sacrifice or somehow in battle etc.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[darkangel]

I LOVED THE BATTLE BETWEEN GANDALF AND SAURON AT DOL GULDUR!
AND I MISSED SARUMAN AND GALADRIEL FROM THE MOVIE

 

[jacobed]

I enjoyed it until the horrible ending then I went back thinking ok what didn't need to be in this movie and that would be one

 

[DoomsdayApex]

I give it a solid 7.5/10

Once again, there were scenes that could've been shaved off simply because they served no purpose. Flawed film but it was improvement in certain areas.

I LOVED Smaug!

 

[<(o_o)>]

Watching the movie I got a strong feeling [BLACKOUT]Tauriel will die, either by noble sacrifice or somehow in battle etc.[/BLACKOUT]

[BLACKOUT]NNNOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! Not Tauriel!!!! Her being turned to the darkside by Saruman & going against Legolas in another 3 part series would be better.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[LegendaryCaleb]

I've never read the books...so I loved this movie honestly...way more than the first... 8/10

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Watching the movie I got a strong feeling [BLACKOUT]Tauriel will die, either by noble sacrifice or somehow in battle etc.[/BLACKOUT]

Tauriel and Killi will get to love each other after all


[BLACKOUT]In the Undying Lands!!!! She will discover whatever it was in his trousers. It will be an eternal love; take that! Arwen and King Elessar. [/BLACKOUT]

 

[The Dark Defender]

Congrats Peter. You don't have the measured disposition to receive criticism without immaturely plotting to one up your criticizers, destroying an ending to a film in the process.

I don't think that had anything to do with his decision to end the movie this way.

Regardless of his reasoning, even as a hardcore PJ fan (ROTK is my favorite film of all time and PJ Kong is in my top 5) it was a bad call.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I don't think that had anything to do with his decision to end the movie this way.

Regardless of his reasoning, even as a hardcore PJ fan (ROTK is my favorite film of all time and PJ Kong is in my top 5) it was a bad call.

I don't believe it either. I am just humoring his logic.

 

[sueb1863]

Re: Tauriel, my feeling is that

Spoiler

she will die alongside Kili at the BoFA and Fili either won't die or his death will be downplayed in favor of highlighting Tauriel and Kili's doomed romance. And Tauriel will be buried under Lonely Mountain alongside Kili, Fili and Thorin.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Is that a healthy attitude to have? Well, the fat bearded ****wit can kiss my ass- he's not getting a penny from me.



A part of me thinks you really should have put that in spoiler tags; the rest of me is glad you didn't. Yet another reason to avoid this fanfic nightmare.

If you can get around the fact that the majority of the film is made up material by Jackson to justify three movies, it's not that bad. And Benedict Cumberbatch is a Dragon, so there's that. But if you can't...yeah, I'd skip it.

Honestly, watching the film purely as a film, it's all right. Nothing special, but it's a fun few hours of distraction from your normal life. As a fan of The Hobbit novel...I spent a lot of time going, "why was this in here?"

The most frustrating thing about all of it is that the actors all do a very good job. I kind of felt bad for them. And when Jackson get's things right, he gets them VERY right. The problem with the Hobbit films are, when he gets them wrong, they're very wrong. Much more so than his missteps in LOTR.

 

[warhorse78]

After people *****ed about ROTK having about 6 never-ending endings, I wouldn't be surprised if this sucker punch ending to DoS was a massive kiss my ass from Jackson.

I think he had quite a few of those moments. Another was everyone hiding in the toilet. People were moaning about the toilet humor in the first Hobbit, and this was like, oh yeah, I'll show you some actual toilet humor!

 

[warhorse78]

[BLACKOUT]NNNOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! Not Tauriel!!!! Her being turned to the darkside by Saruman & going against Legolas in another 3 part series would be better.[/BLACKOUT]

But, to come and think of it, Middle Earth really hasn't had a noble [BLACKOUT]female die in the movies, or in the books that I can recollect, all of the main women like Arwen, Eowyn and Galadriel survived and are intact, so perhaps to have a major female character die could be interesting. Maybe this is what starts the forked road for Legolas.[/BLACKOUT]

OK, I haven't given my review yet. I was ecstatic that Legolas was in this, he wasn't just a cameo but pretty much a full fledged character, and I loved that. I loved the Elves the most in the LOTR world, so to have him and Tauriel in it, I was happy as can be. Granted, I tried reading the books, but I would get into like the third chapter, then stick it on my dresser to never pick it up again, so I am not a fan of Tolkien's literature work. He created a great world, he just could never word it in a way that would get my attention, but I have always been a fan of the movies, so whatever changes they did from the book to the movie, honestly, I don't care, and with the inclusion of Legolas and the creation of Tauriel, I am glad for it.

I had a few gripes. While there was some serious action in this, I sometimes had a hard time making out what was what. It's like it was speeded up and blurry for many of the scenes (I'm hoping it was my screen, since the movie started 15 minuted behind schedule due to the projectionist was too busy flirting with one of the cashiers instead of manning his station) and, this movie also seemed to suffer what Man of Steel suffered, in that the action sequences went on a bit too long, almost monotonous (I was actually preferring the healing sequence over Smaug chasing everyone sequence) and that while the movie is called The Hobbit, he seems to be third of 4th tier character (behind Thorin, Gandalf, Legolas, and maybe even Tauriel) People want to blame Peter Jackson for this, but, this is now the second time this has happened with a WB movie this year, perhaps it's WB meddling into things. We already know that studios think that the American audience is too stupid or suffers from some sort of ADHD to want to sit through the quieter, character developing moments, proof in when Harvey Weinstein decided to butcher Snow Piercer, but I guess we'll find out when we get the EE of DOS.

8/10.
I loved the overall plot, the characters and the changes, not so much the way the action was shot (it could have been my theater I did see this in 2D) and the action was a little tedious. But damn, Leggy was in it!

 

[Liam_H]

I can't exactly remember Legolas' disposition in the previous trilogy but what if [BLACKOUT]Tauriel dying because of Kili causes him to resent dwarves even more.[/BLACKOUT]

 

[Tacit Ronin]

I think he had quite a few of those moments. Another was everyone hiding in the toilet. People were moaning about the toilet humor in the first Hobbit, and this was like, oh yeah, I'll show you some actual toilet humor!

People dare think shoehorning Arwen in the battle of Amon Hen was unwise? I'll show em. I'll conceive a romance between a Dwarf and a She-Elf. Heck, I'll invent the character so she can be as Mary Sue as possible. And I'll insert the dramatic height of their relationship right in the middle of Smaug's key sequence. It will be so bad the Arwen deviations will look like a masterstroke of material adaptation. This is all for the good of LOTR!

 

[DKDetective]

Honestly, this is how I would have made the movies:

Spoiler

Film 1: An Unexpected Journey

- Prologue: Gandalf sneaks into Dol Goldur. Orcs are crawling about the fortress. Drums in the deep. Infernal work is being done here. He sneaks into the dungeon and finds Thrain. Tries to help him escape but Thrain is nearly mad from torture. Gives Gandalf the map and key and tells him to give them to his son, Thorin. Just then the orcs discover them - Thrain is killed, and Gandalf fights his way out and barely escapes. All this is narrated by Gandalf, as if talking to Thorin. Then he has a proposition: to find a burglar to help them in their quest to reclaim the mountain...

- Introduce Bilbo. Unexpected Party. It is during this scene that the background about Smaug, along with brief flashbacks, is introduced. Maybe a slightly longer rendition of the "Misty Mountains" song for the EE.

- Journey begins. Bilbo meets the dwarves at the Green Dragon, as in the book. They leave, have a journey montage, discussion about pocket handkerchiefs, whatnot. No warg scouts from Azog, no talk about throat-slitters.

- Troll scene. I would have Bilbo delay the trolls a bit longer to show his ingenuity.

- They go to Rivendell, willingly. The dwarves are prejudiced against elves but not stupid - willing to put up with elves for the sake of the quest, as any rational being would be. Here we have a brief White Council scene, same players + Radagast, with discussion of Mirkwood and Dol Goldur. Saruman is not a *****ebag in this scene. They all think the Necromancer is one of the Nine, per the books. Necromancer may ally with Smaug (I believe Tolkien himself suggested this in one of his letters, if I recall), so the Council wants to prevent that.

- Misty Mountains + Stone Giants scene. Refuge in cave. Thorin / Bilbo tension about his place on this quest.

- Goblin town. I'd keep much of this the same except for the cartoonish bits, i.e. falling from ridiculous heights without being hurt. Great Goblin does send word to Bolg. It is here we learn in BRIEF flashbacks of Azog's death at Moria and Bolg's thirst for revenge.

- Riddles in the Dark. Keep pretty much the same.

- Escape. Daylight. Goblins don't follow in daylight, but when night hits they pursue on wargs. Battle with the goblins + wargs, Goblins sing the song about burning the dwarves. Gandalf sees the Eagles afar off and signals. They carry them away from the goblins. We cannot understand the Eagles but Gandalf can communicate with them - they tell him they do not go near Dale for fear of being shot down, and have no desire to carry them many leagues. Set them down near Beorn's house.

- Introduce themselves to Beorn while he is a man. The goblins are still in pursuit. That night Beorn goes off, kills many of the pursuing goblins. Puts their heads on pikes outside the next day.

- Mirkwood. Spiders. This bit is okay, just cut out Bilbo's obsession with the ring. THIS, and not the warg-scene, is where Bilbo proves his mettle to Thorin.

- Gandalf goes to meet the White Council which is gathering forces against Dol Goldur.

- Captured by the wood-elves. Adding Tauriel as a guard is okay but no romantic subplots, just have her be a heroic elf. Legolas appearance. Dwarves escape. No weird fight at that dam/gate thing.

- Down the river they go, they see the mountain in the distance. END.

Spoiler

Film 2: There and Back Again

Prologue: Flashback showing dragon attack in greater detail (we only got snippets in previous movie). Thorin's perspective.

- Enter laketown. No sneaking around crap. Thorin announces who he is. They go up to the mountain. Put key in keyhole. Door opens.

- During this time we see the Battle of Dol Goldur. Large battle. White Council drives out evil, Necromancer not strong enough to fight AT ALL so flees, revealed to be Sauron. Saruman finds a palantir foreshadowing his temptation and fall. Gandalf sets out to return to the dwarves.

- Bilbo and Smaug, uninterrupted scene. Smaug, enraged, thinks he kills Bilbo and the dwarves (there could be a small chase, but nothing too long that makes Smaug looks stupid - he collapses tunnels, thinks they are dead).

- Smaug attacks Laketown, killed by Bard.

- On the way to Erebor, Gandalf encounters Bolg and his forces going in that direction. Is pursued but outruns them.

- Thorin bewitched by treasure, does not care about Laketown. Finally convinced to leave mountain. Bard approaches. Armies arrive and encamp. Thorin refuses to share gold.

- Bilbo sneaks into Bard's camp and gives the Arkenstone to Bard. This causes a rift between Thorin and Bilbo. Thorin is about to kill Bilbo when Gandalf arrives and stays his hand. Gandalf tells them that Bolg and his army is on the way.

- Battle of five armies. Thorin, Fili, and Kili killed. Beorn arrives (summoned by Gandalf) and kills Bolg in the battle.

- Bilbo / Thorin last moments. Bilbo returns home with Gandalf. Thinks about writing his adventure down in a book. END.

That is a most excellent breakdown and strategy. One of the things I hate most about Jackson's adaption apart from all the mindless junk added is that he completely misses the point of Gandalf's involvement:

Spoiler

Gandalf orchestrates the whole adventure because he feared that the Necromancer was Sauron, but the White Council would not back him up. So he wanted another ally in the area and wanted Smaug removed, fearing that Sauron might use him. As a result, i really love how you put Gandalf, the Necromancer, and Gandalf's planning right at the start.

 

[warhorse78]

People dare think shoehorning Arwen in the battle of Amon Hen was unwise? I'll show em. I'll conceive a romance between a Dwarf and a She-Elf. Heck, I'll invent the character so she can be as Mary Sue as possible. And I'll insert the dramatic height of their relationship right in the middle of Smaug's key sequence. It will be so bad the Arwen deviations will look like a masterstroke of material adaptation. This is all for the good of LOTR!

In other words, stop your *****in, because they can always make it even worse to just spite you, and due to the fact that the movies are still going to make about a billion ww, he's going to be laughing all the way to the bank while all the butt hurt people will still be butt hurt.

I was one of those who actually liked seeing Haldir again in TTT. He was a rather handsome elf, and had an awesome voice.