Official 'The Hobbit' Thread - - - - Part 13

[Persona]

Just got back. Of two minds. I am not sure it is a better film then AUJ, but it definitely has the best scenes I have seen since The Mines of Moria.

The Stupendous
- Martin Freeman is Bilbo Baggins. His first steps into the treasure, his battle with the spiders, his reaction to the barrels, etc. Martin Freeman is the Hobbit.

- Smaug. Good Lord, Smaug. No words. Utter perfection. His semi-grin when he awakes. Great Caesar's Ghost!!!

- Barrel Ride. Some rough bits in terms of CGI, but overall it was stunning and fun. Bombur is a barrel ninja.

- The naming of Sting. The scene felt a bit truncated, but I loved that moment, along with the Dwarf method of killing spiders.

- "And who is this mutant goblin?" This might have been my favorite appearance of Legolas.

- Tauriel, the fairest of all elves. Her storyline is actually pretty painful, but she is quite nice.

- The Pie Maker's performance as Thranduil is appropriately off putting. I love his little interaction with his son.

- "Does that mean good luck". Bard the Bowman is great, as are his children. His introduction tells you everything you need about his skill, while the little ones are so adorable.

- Dwalin and Balin. An incredible duo. One brings the levity, the other the sincerity. Great combination that liven up scene after scene.

- Gandalf doing actual, combat worthy Magic!!!! I almost cried. The scene was horribly placed, but it was awesome nevertheless. I have been waiting for that since the first trailer for the LotR. All the hints couldn't compare to Gandalf the Jedi.

- Who wouldn't follow Thorin Oakenshield? Great portrayal, great performance.

- The fight between Legolas and [BLACKOUT]Bolg[/BLACKOUT] was pretty great, beside the straight CGI at the end.

- Best statue ever.

The Tyrannical
- Whoever decided that it was a good idea to cut from the confrontation with Smaug over and over again needs to be fired, even if it was Peter. It is impossible to care about anything else at that point. Nothing else matters. When the first two cuts happen and literally split up Bilbo walking into the mountain my entire theater groaned. It was horrible editing. Razzie level stuff.

- This films is a strong example of how to integrate new material (Legolas) and exactly how not to (The Necromancer and Azog). For the second straight film the opening is overlong because we are forced to deal with things that have nothing to do with the journey.

- I really like Tauriel. Evangeline Lilly has never looked more beautiful (and that is saying something), and her performance is strong. Too bad her storyline is absolutely horrible. It blew my mind that anyone would think that was a good idea. It is laughably bad. They should have just kept [BLACKOUT]her longing for Legolas[/BLACKOUT], while being awesome. You really think I care if that contrived [BLACKOUT]Kili[/BLACKOUT]crap matters to anyone while the Kings Under the Mountain battle?

- Beorn is so wasted, I don't want to hear any excuses. It is embarrassing and he has even less screen time then I anticipated. Felt like Peter completely missed the point.

- Kili was a pain. His storyline dictated that he'd be the annoying one who gets in the way of things we actually want to see.

- Bolg looked horrible. Like really, really bad. Azog looked far more finished this time around. His scars actually looked like scars. But Bolg looked even more unfinished then Azog did in the first film. And I think it is pretty clear why. They changed his location and Azog's. They flipped their stories. The shot of Azog from the first trailer is missing while there was the behind the scenes inform on Bolg being there with Gandalf.

- Bilbo goes missing for large parts of time and it is because of all the non-journey material packed in. It is a distraction.

- Bard [BLACKOUT]teasing the arrow[/BLACKOUT] seemed really, really early. It was too obvious and is a symptom of what was once two films being three.



Overall, I will definitely me seeing it again. Smaug and the performances are more then worth it. But those painful moments that just chew up time are probably going to get worse and more annoying without the aid of remote to fast-forward past them.

hey, man, i don't agree with every point and probably liked it more than you, overall, but this was a nicely balanced take!

maybe our days of arguing over The Hobbit are over! huzzah! well, for now, anyways, heh.

 

[jacobed]

Saw this again, very entertaining to watch and ill watch it a few more times but its a really bad movie. The only reason its worth watching is the sweet looking action scenes even if they're full of awful cg

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I actually enjoyed that in a sorta perverse way.

You just want to get to the Bilbo/Smaug confrontation and they just drag it out building up the tension.

Here is the thing. It had already built a lot of tension. It had already been "dragged out". We were nearly at 5 hours of waiting for Smaug. They don't just get to Lake Town, it is a chore (Not in terms of the movie. That is all pretty enjoyable. Just that for them it is a slog). As is the travel through Mirkwood and even the opening of the door. Bilbo and Balin's conversation is the perfect set up. Just have to say again, Freeman is perfect. The way he says "I think I must try" is so heartfelt. You can feel his fear and his determination, even as his voice breaks.

They drag it out for all it is worth with the journey itself, that by the time we get to that moment, cutting away to irrelevant things a horrible idea and it felt that way to me, my brother and a lot of the crowd. And it was just as bad as they continued to do it over and over again.

Saw this again, very entertaining to watch and ill watch it a few more times but its a really bad movie. The only reason its worth watching is the sweet looking action scenes even if they're full of awful cg

The action is pretty great. The movie is not great, but I definitely wouldn't call it bad. Have to watch it again to get a better grasp. Bilbo, Smaug, Thorin, Balin, Dwalin, Bard and Legolas are worth the ticket imo.

Another little moment I loved was Bofur's "wake up call". His reaction is pretty funny.

 

[Boom]

Oh I would definitely call it a bad film. It's the complete opposite of An Unexpected Journey. Unlike that movie, which stretched many of its scenes so thin that it was genuinely painful to sit through at times, this one literally does not allow itself time to breathe at all, until it came time to launch into yet another exhausting 20+ minute action piece. Honestly, for a movie almost clocking in at three hours, I remember leaving the theater thinking that not much of anything really happened. It was almost as if them getting from the wilderlands to Erebor was merely coincidental to the exhausting amount of fluff. The "video game" comparison this film is getting is shockingly accurate. Overblown action scene followed by a cutscene/checkpoint, rinse and repeat.

Almost no character development at all outside of Tauriel, in a forced romantic angle that had all the fittings of a fantasy soap opera. I don't usually physical cringe at movie scenes, but god help me that was agonizing to sit through. And all the while I'm sitting there thinking, "Heh, Beorn only got five minutes of screen time for the sake of this," or "Yeah, this is totes more interesting than more character scenes between Bilbo and Thorin, or even Bilbo and Balin."

Thorin was all over the map (one minute you're supposed to cheer for the guy, the next you're thinking he's kind of a dick, then we're expecting to go right back to rooting for him). There's no gradual transformation or shift. His development is furiously chaotic. And due to the filmmakers unwillingness to let this film and its characters breathe, I thought even Bilbo's development felt forced.

The Dol Guldur subplot once again did nothing other than to distract from the main plot, and whoever thought it was a smart cinematic choice to intercut Bilbo's conversation with Smaug with those scenes should be fired/excommunicated/shot.

The dwarf vs Smaug scene/mini movie was awful. Not only because it was excessively long (even by Jackson's standards), it came dangerously close to ruining Smaug for me, after a scene that could be best described as pure bliss. I'm not getting this "Hannibal Lecter of the dragon world" vibes at all. Quite honestly, this action scene made Smaug look like a catastrophic dumbass.

 

[Victarion]

Where does the scene of orc armies marching fit into the film?

 

[ares834]

Where does the scene of orc armies marching fit into the film?

It's the Necromancer's army marching from Dol Guldor to presumably the Lonely Mountain.

 

[Eggyman]

This sounds disappoint.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Oh I would definitely call it a bad film. It's the complete opposite of An Unexpected Journey. Unlike that movie, which stretched many of its scenes so thin that it was genuinely painful to sit through at times, this one literally does not allow itself time to breathe at all, until it came time to launch into yet another exhausting 20+ minute action piece. Honestly, for a movie almost clocking in at three hours, I remember leaving the theater thinking that not much of anything really happened. It was almost as if them getting from the wilderlands to Erebor was merely coincidental to the exhausting amount of fluff. The "video game" comparison this film is getting is shockingly accurate. Overblown action scene followed by a cutscene/checkpoint, rinse and repeat.

Almost no character development at all outside of Tauriel, in a forced romantic angle that had all the fittings of a fantasy soap opera. I don't usually physical cringe at movie scenes, but god help me that was agonizing to sit through. And all the while I'm sitting there thinking, "Heh, Beorn only got five minutes of screen time for the sake of this," or "Yeah, this is totes more interesting than more character scenes between Bilbo and Thorin, or even Bilbo and Balin."

I didn't feel like the action was overblown this time. I felt like it really worked for the most part. Even Bombur's moment worked for me. Also, there weren't any 20+ minute action scenes outside of the finale.

Now I do agree the main story is once again lost, but I also think there was good character work with Bilbo, Thorin, and Balin. It wasn't enough in Bilbo's case, but I think it works. But I also agree that at times the main story feels truncated while the fluff runs wild at times. This is very true in the first 15 or so minutes. Strange almost really.

The romance is horrible. There is just no way around it really.

That also reminds me of badly executed Tauriel [BLACKOUT]learning off Kili's poisoning is[/BLACKOUT]. That is so bad. They couldn't think of another way of informing her? On not nearly as contrived?

The Dol Guldur subplot once again did nothing other than to distract from the main plot, and whoever thought it was a smart cinematic choice to intercut Bilbo's conversation with Smaug with those scenes should be fired/excommunicated/shot.

Agree completely. As you could see if you read my list.

The dwarf vs Smaug scene/mini movie was awful. Not only because it was excessively long (even by Jackson's standards), it came dangerously close to ruining Smaug for me, after a scene that could be best described as pure bliss. I'm not getting this "Hannibal Lecter of the dragon world" vibes at all. Quite honestly, this action scene made Smaug look like a catastrophic dumbass.

I actually really, really liked this scene. Now I completely get where you are coming from. Smaug does seem to get dumber and dumber, but I enjoyed the creative battle. I mean really, how do you fight a dragon? It wasn't perfect, and I might not like it later, but I definitely got caught up and enjoyed it. All the shots of Smaug definitely did not hurt. Stunning work and makes you wonder why all the other work in the first two films have been uneven in the CGI department.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Where does the scene of orc armies marching fit into the film?

Right in the middle of the Smaug talking to Bilbo. They thought it was a good place to cutaway for a few seconds...

It's the Necromancer's army marching from Dol Guldor to presumably the Lonely Mountain.

I am mooning Jackson right now.

This sounds disappoint.

I can see it being disappointing for many. But I also think it is one of those films that will hit you nicely at least the first time you see it. It is not hard to get caught up in some of the best scenes and characters. I can also see it becoming more annoying every viewing after.

 

[Victarion]

See, I would've had Smaug wipe out Laketown here, have the army marching, then cut back to the survivors emerging from the smoking ruins. Then cut to black and "I See Fire"

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Another little thing I forgot to mention, Smaug's firing breathing. Beautiful. Love that you can see it start in his belly and move up through his throat. Also I liked the general impact of the flames. Looked dangerous. When he stood straight up and lit the room up, gorgeous.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

See, I would've had Smaug wipe out Laketown here, have the army marching, then cut back to the survivors emerging from the smoking ruins. Then cut to black and "I See Fire"

The cliffhanger is pretty abrupt. A few groans and I can understand why. They spend a good bit of time setting up the scene and then don't get there.

 

[Liam_H]

Can Smaug even wipeout Laketown? It seems quite obvious their setting up Bard to take him down with the last black arrow. I would actually love for Smaug to destroy the town to back up all his talk.

 

[stillanerd]

Well, I saw Desolation of Smaug last night at a midnight screening, and while it took quite a few liberties with the book, of course (one departure in particular which I thought was just...odd. Those who saw the film can probably guess what that was) I quite enjoyed it and had a lot of fun. I'll probably write-up a far more in-depth review later.

 

[Boom]

I didn't feel like the action was overblown this time. I felt like it really worked for the most part. Even Bombur's moment worked for me. Also, there weren't any 20+ minute action scenes outside of the finale.

I use "20+ minute" as an intended exaggeration. It has more to do with Jackson's action pieces going on for way longer than they should. And if you're going to have these long sequences, you have to keep upping the tension and establishing stakes. That's ultimately what has been crippling these movies. You have all of these elaborate scenes where characters defy the laws of physics, and you are never worried for these people. Jackson's goal is singular: to just keep ramping up and ramping up the spectacle, with each stunt topping the last. So really, what kind of investment is there to be had? Even when one of the dwarves actually gets wounded, that is also underplayed while Kili jumps back into a barrel and the over-the-top "Legolas Show" continues. Did we even know the arrow was poisoned until all was said and done?

Maybe instead of focusing on all these cool angles and stunts, how about focusing on the fact that Bilbo is basically drowning in this river. Or make it clear from the get-go that Kili is seriously wounded, and add a sense of urgency to the dwarves getting out of dodge and finding help. Things like that then give these action scenes, which border on unnecessary times, a little more weight.

Now I do agree the main story is once again lost, but I also think there was good character work with Bilbo, Thorin, and Balin. It wasn't enough in Bilbo's case, but I think it works. But I also agree that at times the main story feels truncated while the fluff runs wild at times. This is very true in the first 15 or so minutes. Strange almost really.

Within a day or so of having the Ring, Bilbo full-blown rages on Baby Spidercrab? I get what they were trying to do (gotta make that Dol Guldur **** seem more relevant than it really is), but it only serves to make Bilbo seem more weak-minded and willed than his book counterpart (Bilbo lying to Gandalf and the dwarves about how he discovered the Ring is one thing. Psychotically murdering another creature is another). It was a moment that, to me, literally came out of nowhere.

There's really no arc for him in this film. He is braver from the get-go, so that moment in the book where he "changes" after killing the spider, which takes place in this movie, is lost. Instead, they're left to focus more on how evil the Ring by making Bilbo go berserk. He starts the film out as being more of a mover, instead of him gradually growing into that role throughout the course of the film. He starts that way, and ends that way, with little-to-no change throughout that three-hour period.

And I cannot believe Jackson wouldn't play up the idea of Smaug getting into Bilbo's head, causing him to mistrust the dwarves (however brief it may have been). That could have added some great friction and (hey!) drama and characterization.

Balin is a secondary character, so his development was satisfactory. Thorin, I just don't see much consistency in his character. I honestly don't know what the filmmakers want me to think, which is problematic.

The romance is horrible. There is just no way around it really.

Trousers and starlight and other ****. God.

I actually really, really liked this scene. Now I completely get where you are coming from. Smaug does seem to get dumber and dumber, but I enjoyed the creative battle. I mean really, how do you fight a dragon? It wasn't perfect, and I might not like it later, but I definitely got caught up and enjoyed it. All the shots of Smaug definitely did not hurt. Stunning work and makes you wonder why all the other work in the first two films have been uneven in the CGI department.

All I can really say is different strokes for different people. I hated it. I hated the concept, and I despised just how long it went on for. It felt like a ****ing eternity. It made Smaug look idiotic and incompetent, and therefore non-threatening. Let's hope that the denizens of Lake-town are just as acrobatic and impervious to heat as the dwarves are, because they really wouldn't have anything to worry about when ol' Smaug comes to town. Oh wait, they aren't main characters. So they are just as normal and bound by physics as we are. Sorry, Lake-towners not named Bard.

Having this long, over-the-top sequence with the dwarves seemingly winning in the end, only for Smaug to basically give up on killing the dwarves for no reason (even after damaging his pride to the extent that they probably did) and fly off to Lake-town as the credits roll was bad. It was just a bad idea, and genuinely comes across as amateurish in how ineffective it is.

If you're going to have a cliff-hanger, have Smaug actually win for the time being. Have him trap the dwarves inside the mountain (with Bilbo suspicious of his companions after Smaug effectively got into his head), and let them stew in their own terror for a little bit while he goes and pays a visit to Lake-town.

 

[jonathancrane]

One of my complaints with the film was the Dwarves' battle with Smaug. It was bad enough that it was choreographed the same way the droid assembly line battle was in Attack of the Clones, but that it had to incorporate the most ridiculous Rube Goldberg contraption and derived a scenario from Season 1 of Game of Thrones. However, I loved the river sequence: it was pure blockbuster cheese.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

It is evident that Smaug gets confused when people split up into smaller groups and goad him from different ends. Laketowners could conceivably make Smaug lose his mind by playing the same numbers game but with more ease thanks to their greater numbers. I can have a laugh imagining it now.

 

[Liam_H]

Couldn't he just incinerate everything?

 

[Boom]

Couldn't he just incinerate everything?

His breath is death, unless you are standing just outside of the flames themselves - even by mere inches.

Also, am I the only one who didn't hear Cumberbatch at all? Either he changed his voice completely, or they digitally altered it to the point of not being recognizable. Either way, if I didn't know he had been cast, I never would have been able to tell it was him.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Boom, surprised you had nothing to say about Beorn. They completely took away everything about him that was special.


[BLACKOUT]I thought showing his transformation from beast to man in detail was a poor move, as it robbed him off the mystery that he had in the book where you would either see the man or the beast. [/BLACKOUT]

 

[ares834]

It is evident that Smaug gets confused when people split up into smaller groups and goad him from different ends. Laketowners could conceivably make Smaug lose his mind by playing the same numbers game but with more ease thanks to their greater numbers. I can have a laugh imagining it now.

That happens once. Once! And the second time the dwarves try it Smaug completley ignores them, even when they begin throwing "grenades" at him.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That happens once. Once! And the second time the dwarves try it Smaug completley ignores them, even when they begin throwing "grenades" at him.

Well to be fair, they want him to ignore it. So they are actually outsmarting him again.

 

[ares834]

Well to be fair, they want him to ignore it. So they are actually outsmarting him again.

Nah, it seemed they were trying to get Smaug's attention and get him away from Thorin but he wasn't having any of it.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Nah, it seemed they were trying to get Smaug's attention and get him away from Thorin but he wasn't having any of it.

They were trying to slow him so they could drop the heavy stuff on him.

 

[ares834]

They were trying to slow him so they could drop the heavy stuff on him.

Sure, but they were planning to do this by distracting him with the grenades. It didn't work rather he was distracted by stalking Thorin.