Official 'The Hobbit' Thread - - - - - Part 14

[Marvolo]

The multiple page songs were the worst thing.

Agreed. While I can appreciate and understand why Tolkien included them it doesnt make them any less cumbersome.

 

[regwec]

You fellows seem to dislike everything that sets Tolkien apart from his generic fantasy imitators.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Well, Tolkien's songs are like GRRM's descriptions of food; they're good at adding detail to the larger world but they're not something I particularly savor when reading.

 

[elsewhere]

Tolkien definitely gets wordy and overly descriptive. Its like "man we get it! Get on with it!" I don't give two ****s about the strawberries being in season or any of that stuff. But he was a literally a words-smith so its expected.

I love Tolkien's world building. But I get why some would not.

 

[regwec]

A part of it is that he considered the passage of seasons to be a key theme in LOTR. The epic poetry tends to be about the passage of eras.

 

[AVEITWITHJAMON]

Tolkien definitely gets wordy and overly descriptive. Its like "man we get it! Get on with it!" I don't give two ****s about the strawberries being in season or any of that stuff. But he was a literally a words-smith so its expected.

It was just too much for me, it actually made me enjoy the LOTR books less, when that shouldnt be happening.

The multiple page songs were the worst thing.

Them and Tom Bombadil drove me crazy, so glad they were both axed from the movies.

 

[Vengeance of Bane]

I've read the LOTR trilogy, and The Hobbit. I can understand wanting do repeat the success of the LOTR trilogy, but splitting one book into three movies seems a bit like "overkill". Having just watched TDOS I was surprised by how little I actually enjoyed it. So many things feel out of place i.e. the love triangle. The biggest mistake imo is that they wanted to recreate the ensemble feel from LOTR, but clearly The Hobbit is meant to be Bilbo's journey, but he seems to have been relegated to a minor character in what seems to be Thorin's journey.

The last "complaint" I have is the excess use of CGI.

 

[elsewhere]

I've read the LOTR trilogy, and The Hobbit. I can understand wanting do repeat the success of the LOTR trilogy, but splitting one book into three movies seems a bit like "overkill". Having just watched TDOS I was surprised by how little I actually enjoyed it. So many things feel out of place i.e. the love triangle. The biggest mistake imo is that they wanted to recreate the ensemble feel from LOTR, but clearly The Hobbit is meant to be Bilbo's journey, but he seems to have been relegated to a minor character in what seems to be Thorin's journey.

The last "complaint" I have is the excess use of CGI.

In some cases it's not even very good CGI. The whole thing feels rushed.

 

[regwec]

The biggest mistake imo is that they wanted to recreate the ensemble feel from LOTR, but clearly The Hobbit is meant to be Bilbo's journey, but he seems to have been relegated to a minor character in what seems to be Thorin's journey.

I am increasingly convinced by this view. It's a great shame because I think that Freeman is perfectly cast, and the sequences where he is on screen are excellent.

The basic format of the underlying story is that of a journey on which we see extraordinary things and meet extraordinary characters. That diminishes, to an extent, as those characters become familiar. This is probably a symptom of prequel syndrome, where nothing seems fresh, but it is regrettable that these movies leave no sense of mystery around Gandalf, the Elves, and other such "magical" elements. In that regard, Beorn can be rated as a surprise success- for the time being.

 

[TheIrishAvenger]

"Needless padding is the enemy of competent storytelling. The Desolation of Smaug is frustrating because you sense how much Jackson is in love with Tolkien's material, and how much that love has caused him to lose sight of what this tale should really be."--
Mike McGranaghan

 

[Victarion]

The scenes/subplot with the Master of Laketown were the worst of the film's padding.

 

[craigdbfan]

I loved those scenes. Stephen Fry was hilarious as the Master of Lake-town I thought.

 

[Persona]

You fellows seem to dislike everything that sets Tolkien apart from his generic fantasy imitators.

Tolkien was a very smart, literate guy with an absolutely amazing imagination who crafted a very intricate, expansive, and resonant mythos. to me, it is the resonance that sets him apart the most. it felt like he was tapping into something essential with his fantasy whereas his imitators are making copies of copies and that essential element is diluted in the process.

Tolkien's prose was fine for what it was and in some cases its occasional awkwardness was inherent to the epic style he was going for, but i wouldn't call it a strong suit of Tolkien's work and it's an aspect that doesn't age particularly well. his descriptions and narrative detours do get to be a bit too much at times and--much like PJ's Hobbit movies--would have benefited from a firmer editing touch.

that said, LotR and The Silmarillion are some of my favorite books ever. but i fully understand and somewhat agree with a few of the complaints of their detractors.

 

[Persona]

I loved those scenes. Stephen Fry was hilarious as the Master of Lake-town I thought.

agreed, and while the scenes could have been a bit shorter, most of it was needed for the set-up for the final film, so not exactly padding.

 

[Persona]

In some cases it's not even very good CGI. The whole thing feels rushed.

nothing feels rushed to me about the spiders, Smaug, or most of the "virtual" sets (well, except for a handful of shots in the dwarves vs. Smaug scene). Bolg did feel a bit rushed, though, which is not surprising since he definitely was, so that's unfortunate. thought he looked good in the fight with Legolas, though, guess they spent a little more time on that one and it probably helped that it was dark.

i know some don't like the Dol Guldur stuff but i enjoyed that on every level.

 

[Marvolo]

You fellows seem to dislike everything that sets Tolkien apart from his generic fantasy imitators.

No i adore Tolkien and consider him above other fantasy writers, but im not gonna read those songs. Reading music is a tedious task. Its meant to be sung, but im not about to burst into song either. For the record id enjoy the songs if someone who could sing was reading the story to me.

 

[jmc]

''Needless padding is the enemy of competent storytelling. The Desolation of Smaug is frustrating because you sense how much Jackson is in love with Tolkien's material, and how much that love has caused him to lose sight of what this tale should really be.''
Mike McGranaghan

This quote sums up the entire series of films. Jackson's love affair with Tolkien, and there's a genuine respect for the material that's 100% for certain, is ultimately what's dragging down The Hobbit.

 

[superkong 500]

So I just got the desolation of smaug chronicles art book and I recommend it even to those who didn't like the movie. Its got lots of fantastic art some of which will make you cry and question why they went with other designs for the final film. for example there;s lots of concept drawings of beorn(although I don't think the final design is in there maybe they haven't even decided waht it will be until TABA) most of them are fantastic however there's one desing for his human form that will make some want to punch jackson and pull their hairs off. The desing looks like a cross between a muscled mountain man and a caveman and would have been perfect isntead of what we got..

There's lots of designs for thranduil and the orcs(specially azog) for examle this is what azog was going to look like at one point after it was decided he was going to be cgi

sure he looks a lot like the final version but the face looks more intimidating and the hair and armor specially adds a lot to him
also at this point he didn't have the symmetrical scars which look a bit to perfect IMO.

 

[Six]

Yeah that looks way better. Too bad they decided to go with underwear model Azog

 

[Drizzle]

I wouldn't oppose if they decided to have him wear that as armor for the Battle of Five Armies. I mean come on, he's the freaking general and he's going to go into battle wearing next to nothing.

 

[SolarTiger]

As someone that read the Hobbit I'm thoroughly enjoying PJ's take on the books. The movies are long but I enjoy the pacing and feeling like I'm getting good bang for my buck. The final scene in TDOS had the entire theater groaning since most of us were expecting another half hour it seems.

Can't wait to get all three films on one set and just marathon them.

 

[jonathancrane]

@Solar Triger:

Same here.

As for the discussion on the songs, I really enjoy them. When I was in grade school and less informed and patient, I always skipped through them. However, having had a proper education-my grade school years were a joke-and matured (namely, through the passing of several family members,) I've come to love the songs. They serve as collective memories and are beautifully written. That is why I was really happy that Jackson included a partial stanza from one of the songs in AUJ; it captured the beauty and tragedy that marks Tolkien's lyrics.

 

[craigdbfan]

So I just got the desolation of smaug chronicles art book and I recommend it even to those who didn't like the movie. Its got lots of fantastic art some of which will make you cry and question why they went with other designs for the final film. for example there;s lots of concept drawings of beorn(although I don't think the final design is in there maybe they haven't even decided waht it will be until TABA) most of them are fantastic however there's one desing for his human form that will make some want to punch jackson and pull their hairs off. The desing looks like a cross between a muscled mountain man and a caveman and would have been perfect isntead of what we got..

There's lots of designs for thranduil and the orcs(specially azog) for examle this is what azog was going to look like at one point after it was decided he was going to be cgi

sure he looks a lot like the final version but the face looks more intimidating and the hair and armor specially adds a lot to him
also at this point he didn't have the symmetrical scars which look a bit to perfect IMO.

Damn that would have been pretty sweet. Instead we have Azog running around like Tommy Pickle.

 

[Drizzle]

Damn that would have been pretty sweet. Instead we have Azog running around like Tommy Pickle.

An orc's gotta do what an orc's gotta do.

 

[Victarion]

One of the orcs in AUJ had similar spike-armor.