Official 'The Hobbit' Thread - - - - - Part 14

[superkong 500]

Although I like thranduil's look there's one specific drawing that its miles better than the final design, I'm gonna try to post it here soon, his crown is different and he looks just perfect, he has shoulder armor and a different robe and he looks even more regal and spectacular than he does in the film.

 

[Victarion]

Damn that would have been pretty sweet. Instead we have Azog running around like Tommy Pickle.

Witch-King: "Sauron, why are you skulking around in a tower at four in the morning?"

Sauron: "I've lost control of my life."

 

[craigdbfan]

An orc's gotta do what an orc's gotta do.

One of the orcs in AUJ had similar spike-armor.

That's right, Yazneg. The movie only orc captain.

Although I like thranduil's look there's one specific drawing that its miles better than the final design, I'm gonna try to post it here soon, his crown is different and he looks just perfect, he has shoulder armor and a different robe and he looks even more regal and spectacular than he does in the film.

That would be awesome. Really liking these pictures. It has definitely inspired me to get this book.

 

[regwec]

I sense that the book may just make me cross.

Thanks for the pictures, though. It's really interesting to see what could have been.

 

[Herolee10]

I'm not sure if it's just me that see things like this, but anyone else feel like that Peter Jackson has modeled these three major human-based settlements within the LOTR world after these countries?

1. Gondor= England

2. Rohan= Ireland

3. Lake Town= France

 

[dark_b]

how many years before PJ admits that the MPAA told him that the orcs on set were to scary for the pg13 hobbit franchise?

the cgi orcs looked more kid friendly.

 

[regwec]

I'm not sure if it's just me that see things like this, but anyone else feel like that Peter Jackson has modeled these three major human-based settlements within the LOTR world after these countries?

1. Gondor= England

2. Rohan= Ireland

3. Lake Town= France

For Tolkien, they were all parts of England's real or imagined past, though he said that Gondor's culture took some inspiration from Ancient Egypt. PJ's Gondor seemed to have a generic late medieval aesthetic, which I didn't much like.

The Rohirrim were simple Anglo-Saxons on horseback, and that is reflected in their language and names. PJ clearly followed this in their design: the arms and armour are influenced by the Sutton Hoo treasure and other Anglo-Saxon artifacts.

PJ's Laketown culture seems interesting. The soldiers wear fur-lined spiked helmets that you might associate with medieval Kiev. The Master wears layered clothing with slashed sleeves- a style that originated in Renaissance Germany.

 

[Herolee10]

For Tolkien, they were all parts of England's real or imagined past, though he said that Gondor's culture took some inspiration from Ancient Egypt. PJ's Gondor seemed to have a generic late medieval aesthetic, which I didn't much like.

The Rohirrim were simple Anglo-Saxons on horseback, and that is reflected in their language and names. PJ clearly followed this in their design: the arms and armour are influenced by the Sutton Hoo treasure and other Anglo-Saxon artifacts.

PJ's Laketown culture seems interesting. The soldiers wear fur-lined spiked helmets that you might associate with medieval Kiev. The Master wears layered clothing with slashed sleeves- a style that originated in Renaissance Germany.

lol j/k

Damn, well you sir are definitely well informed of various cultures, at least more so than I am.

 

[jonathancrane]

For Tolkien, they were all parts of England's real or imagined past, though he said that Gondor's culture took some inspiration from Ancient Egypt. PJ's Gondor seemed to have a generic late medieval aesthetic, which I didn't much like.

The Rohirrim were simple Anglo-Saxons on horseback, and that is reflected in their language and names. PJ clearly followed this in their design: the arms and armour are influenced by the Sutton Hoo treasure and other Anglo-Saxon artifacts.

PJ's Laketown culture seems interesting. The soldiers wear fur-lined spiked helmets that you might associate with medieval Kiev. The Master wears layered clothing with slashed sleeves- a style that originated in Renaissance Germany.

Fascinating. I was unaware of the Egyptian connection with Gondor; I am definitely going to revisit the books.

 

[Pink Ranger]

For Tolkien, they were all parts of England's real or imagined past, though he said that Gondor's culture took some inspiration from Ancient Egypt. PJ's Gondor seemed to have a generic late medieval aesthetic, which I didn't much like.

That is very enlightening, thank you. I too wish PJ had incorporated some of that into his films, as it would have helped blunt some of Tolkien's anglocentrism. Frankly, as much as I love the LOTR movies, I am uneasy about introducing them to non-European immigrant friends of mine, as in some ways they come off as Western Europe vs. the world when put on film.

 

[regwec]

I know what you mean, though I suppose in the overarching story it is a geographic fact. The Haradrim, Khands etc had the misfortune to have been subjugated by Sauron.

I don't think Tolkien meant that the men of Gondor were meant to resemble Egyptians ethnically; his comment was made in reply to a letter asking about costume in Middle Earth. He said that their preoccupation with tombs and the dead took inspiration from Ancient Egypt, and that their costume would, too. I think he also said that the crown Aragorn was given was influenced by the dual crown of upper and lower Egypt (it was supposed to look like a tall, winged helmet rather than the more generic circlet seen in the film).

I wouldn't be opposed to PJ putting some benevolent refugees from Harad somewhere in his movies. It was nice to see some African-looking women in Laketown.

 

[Pink Ranger]

I wouldn't be opposed to PJ putting some benevolent refugees from Harad somewhere in his movies. It was nice to see some African-looking women in Laketown.

I too immediately noticed that it was the first time black actors have ever appeared as themselves in a Tolkien film. I figure Laketown is kind of like a hub city like Florence or Hong Kong.

 

[regwec]

Which is weird because it is quite remote and, in the movie, economically deprived. Minas Tirith should be the major urban powerhouse (the movies show us it houses the greatest library in Middle Earth), but it doesn't come across that way.

 

[craigdbfan]

I liked the whole Mont Saint-Michel look of Minas Tirith.

 

[Pink Ranger]

Which is weird because it is quite remote and, in the movie, economically deprived. Minas Tirith should be the major urban powerhouse (the movies show us it houses the greatest library in Middle Earth), but it doesn't come across that way.

Definitely Laketown has seen better days, largely due to the incompetence and corruption of its chief executive, the film seems to say. Which makes sense, as all the major economic centres of the world have had their times of poverty.

Then again, as someone pointed out earlier, it's best not to put too much thought into the economics of Middle Earth, as the white city seems like a self-contained fortress with little in the way of surrounding settlements or agricultural development.

 

[Destructus86]

"Needless padding is the enemy of competent storytelling. The Desolation of Smaug is frustrating because you sense how much Jackson is in love with Tolkien's material, and how much that love has caused him to lose sight of what this tale should really be."--
Mike McGranaghan

I don't see it as Needless...but again...wasn't a fan of the book. So, that's probably why.

 

[regwec]

I liked the whole Mont Saint-Michel look of Minas Tirith.

The appearance of the city was fine, but the problem is (as Pink Ranger says) that the movie positions it right on the lip of Mordor, on a wasted heath. It should be a Rome, Venice or Constantinople; a bastion of strength and economic vitality (even in the dark days when Pippin and Gandalf arrived).

The fact that the city's soldiers wear Italian barbuta helmets makes me wonder whether PJ took a slightly literal approach to Minas Tirith being a "city state" in the Tuscan mold. It might explain why we didn't get that nice scene from the book where all of the levies from remote corners of Gondor and its allies arrive to bolster the city's defenses.

 

[Marvolo]

The appearance of the city was fine, but the problem is (as Pink Ranger says) that the movie positions it right on the lip of Mordor, on a wasted heath. It should be a Rome, Venice or Constantinople; a bastion of strength and economic vitality (even in the dark days when Pippin and Gandalf arrived).

The fact that the city's soldiers wear Italian barbuta helmets makes me wonder whether PJ took a slightly literal approach to Minas Tirith being a "city state" in the Tuscan mold. It might explain why we didn't get that nice scene from the book where all of the levies from remote corners of Gondor and its allies arrive to bolster the city's defenses.

Mordor's "war" against Minas Tirith should have been "more". Show the levies and lords of Gondor being called to arms, skirmishes in the outlying villages, the army drawing closer, the siege itself. Some breaks in the battle with councils taking place. Make Denothor less crazy. Have him cooperating. None of Faramir almost burning alive B.S. etc etc etc. I really am not a fan of the way Mordors army just shows up on their doorstep and it's non stop calamity for the next hour and a half. There's no intelligence or sense to the way it plays out. It's just a hammer over the head. If Jackson would have kept the Frodo and Sam stuff up until Frodo is captured in TTT and had less slow motion in battles and cut out some of the sentimental hobbit lover stuff out it would have fit.

 

[Rowsdower!]

I liked the whole Mont Saint-Michel look of Minas Tirith.

The first scene of Minas Tirith in ROTK literally took my breath away when I saw it for the first time in the theater. I think I yelled out "WOW!" once Galdalf reached the top of it. Definitely one of the most impressive visuals of the entire series.

 

[Victarion]

I picture Minas Tirith as a decadent mausoleum surrounded by the weedy ruins of old cities that had fallen to Orcish skirmishes. Or that had been vacated from fear of all the activity in Mordor. Smaller scale combat, like Bolg's infiltration of Lake Town, would've been great, too.

 

[Herolee10]

With some of the comparisons that I've heard from fans regarding the similarities that Thorin and Aragorn share within Peter Jackson's films and their respective journeys towards ascending to the "throne", which portrayal would you guys say is your favorite?

 

[Victarion]

Thorin, for me. I can relate to him more than I did Aragorn.

 

[jmc]

The appearance of the city was fine, but the problem is (as Pink Ranger says) that the movie positions it right on the lip of Mordor, on a wasted heath. It should be a Rome, Venice or Constantinople; a bastion of strength and economic vitality (even in the dark days when Pippin and Gandalf arrived).

The fact that the city's soldiers wear Italian barbuta helmets makes me wonder whether PJ took a slightly literal approach to Minas Tirith being a "city state" in the Tuscan mold. It might explain why we didn't get that nice scene from the book where all of the levies from remote corners of Gondor and its allies arrive to bolster the city's defenses.

Minas Tirith is on the lip of Mordor.

 

[Boom]

Fun fact about Minas Tirith: it's bottom most wall was actually black and made from a similar material to Orthanc.

 

[regwec]

Minas Tirith is on the lip of Mordor.

No, it has all of Ithilien, Osgiliath etc in between. The map shows dense forest and hilly uplands. In the movie, however, only a small bleak plain appears to separate Minas Tirith from the mountains of Mordor, and they are in clear view. It doesn't help that Osgiliath appears to be within range of a short cavalry charge. Gondor becomes this tiny, impoverished frontier garrison.