Official 'The Hobbit' Thread - - Part 16

[DarthSkywalker]

The rumor that started on IMDB about the Extended cut being 3 hours and 20 minutes might not be far off the mark. I really didnt think there would be much difference between the theatrical and extended cuts of BTFA, but it sounds like Jackson went at this film with a butcher knife to get it within a normal runtime. Hopefully we get more of Beorn and

Spoiler

to see Thorin's funeral in the EE.

Is that the new defense? We'll fix it with the EE? Why the hell don't they fix it for the one that we actually get to see on the big screen?

I get you like these movies but come on.

 

[ThePhantasm]

There's no particular reason for him to be such a major character in a story already over stuffed with characters.

Precisely. Legolas should have had a cameo, at most.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

Looking at those plastic toy-like battle scenes make me want to rewatch Lawrence of Arabia and Ran, films with actual scale and scope.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Precisely. Legolas should have had a cameo, at most.

Eh, Legolas is fine. Why I think he works is because he actually stays with the plot the entire time, well at least in DoS. It isn't like Radagast or the Gandalf side story, which drifts so far from the plot.

 

[Boom]

Looking at those plastic toy-like battle scenes make me want to rewatch Lawrence of Arabia and Ran, films with actual scale and scope.

The difference is night and day.

Of course, leave it to Peter Jackson to glorify war with cool and over-the-top action pieces where the laws of physics need not apply. Everything can be done in a computer. Every inane, literally impossible feat can be accomplished. To hell with gravity! As long as it looks cool (until the CGI becomes horribly dated in five years time).

If they had been faithful to the text and constructed this narrative solely around Bilbo, then the Battle of Five Armies should be an absolute horror to witness. Just a complete cluster**** of violence and death. All centered around greed and the corruption of materialism. And Bilbo wants no part of it. It's a key moment that illustrates one of the defining differences between Bilbo and Frodo.

 

[ThePhantasm]

The Two Towers: Legolas Surfs on a Shield

Peter Jackson: Hmm, how do we top that in the next film?

Return of the King: Legolas Surfs on an Oliphaunt

Peter Jackson: Hmm, how do we top that next time?

Battle of Five Armies: [BLACKOUT]Legolas rides a bat, backflips (or whatever) onto a troll, and uses it as a bridge[/BLACKOUT]

Peter Jackson: Hmm, how do we top that next time?

The Silmarillion: Legolas surfs on Glaurung, then farts out a balrog on the dragon's head, seemingly killing him, then shoots a million arrows into Glaurung's skull, but oh no he's still alive so Legolas surfs down the dragons throat and shoots his way out of the backside.

Peter Jackson: Perfect!

 

[Boom]

The Two Towers: Legolas Surfs on a Shield

Peter Jackson: Hmm, how do we top that in the next film?

Return of the King: Legolas Surfs on an Oliphaunt

Peter Jackson: Hmm, how do we top that next time?

Battle of Five Armies: [BLACKOUT]Legolas rides a bat, backflips (or whatever) onto a troll, and uses it as a bridge[/BLACKOUT]

Peter Jackson: Hmm, how do we top that next time?

The Silmarillion: Legolas surfs on Glaurung, then farts out a balrog on the dragon's head, killing him, then shoots a million arrows into Glaurung's skull, but oh no he's still alive so Legolas surfs down the dragons throat and shoots his way out of the backside.

Peter Jackson: Perfect!

I'm surprised Gandalf, when faced with the Balrog, didn't simply turn around and say, "Hey, Legolas. You got this?"

Legolas then fires all of his arrows (at once) at the bridge. The strength of his arm is so great that the bridge literally explodes and disintegrates the Balrog instantaneously.

 

[Tacit Ronin]

The difference is night and day.

I know.

 

[redhawk23]

Eh, Legolas is fine. Why I think he works is because he actually stays with the plot the entire time, well at least in DoS. It isn't like Radagast or the Gandalf side story, which drifts so far from the plot.

And Legolas' interactions with a wholly created character do not?

And while many of his other scenes do have him more "with the plot" there is then the problem where he ends up more or less driving it, the film following him as he spins around in a fury of blades wiping out any obstacle.

 

[Vartha]

Oh ****, here come the LOTR "Special Editions"

Complete with new scenes featuring the ghost of Boromir, and Darth Vader yelling "NOOOOOOOOOOOOO" before throwing Gollum into the fire.

lol You watch SOMEWHERE down the line they'll add Tom Bombadil in

 

[Snow Queen]

I know.

I haven't seen a single trailer for this film, is this an actual screenshot? Because if so, dear god...

 

[DarthSkywalker]

And Legolas' interactions with a wholly created character do not?

And while many of his other scenes do have him more "with the plot" there is then the problem where he ends up more or less driving it, the film following him as he spins around in a fury of blades wiping out any obstacle.

Tauriel is nice imo. The problem is instead of keeping her with Legolas, they decide to make her one of the dwarves love interest. I see no problem with exploring the elves and their mindset, especially considering their importance to the story. There is plenty wrong with these films, but Legolas is certainly not one of them. He is in fact one of my favorite things. He is the right kind of call back to LotR without being overbearing.

 

[Herolee10]

I didn't think it was possible, but the effects from the original trilogy look much more realistic/better than most of the effects for like the latter two films, despite the fact that we have like over a decade's difference in time and technology between them.

 

[redhawk23]

Tauriel is nice imo. The problem is instead of keeping her with Legolas, they decide to make her one of the dwarves love interest. I see no problem with exploring the elves and their mindset, especially considering their importance to the story. There is plenty wrong with these films, but Legolas is certainly not one of them. He is in fact one of my favorite things. He is the right kind of call back to LotR without being overbearing.

Their use of the character is the very definition of overbearing.

 

[ThePhantasm]

I didn't think it was possible, but the effects from the original trilogy look much more realistic/better than most of the effects for like the latter two films, despite the fact that we have like over a decade's difference in time and technology between them.

Its because a lot of the original trilogy effects were practical. And the stuff that wasn't was given more attention / refinement because the computer animation guys didn't have two million things to animate.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Their use of the character is the very definition of overbearing.

No, Gandalf's side story is overbearing. It attacks the importance of the main plot, and turns it into the typical world saving story, as opposed to the personal tale of a Hobbit and a King.

Legolas scenes are lite, fun, and his action quite badass. Plus his papa is right there. He has the perfect "in" to the story.

 

[ThePhantasm]

I have to seriously disagree, Darth. Legolas' scenes are pointless. His whole fight scene in Laketown served no purpose and was rather boring to be honest.

 

[AnneFan]

I have to seriously disagree, Darth. Legolas' scenes are pointless. His whole fight scene in Laketown served no purpose and was rather boring to be honest.

I agree.

The same issues I have with the other two Hobbit films are still present, it seems.

 

[redhawk23]

I have to seriously disagree, Darth. Legolas' scenes are pointless. His whole fight scene in Laketown served no purpose and was rather boring to be honest.

That fight scene was in fact so pointless that Bolg just kind of abruptly stops fighting and walks away with no repercussions. It was actually kind of bizarre.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I have to seriously disagree, Darth. Legolas' scenes are pointless. His whole fight scene in Laketown served no purpose and was rather boring to be honest.

You can say they are pointless, but have not given one reason. You can say it served no purpose, but have not given a reason. And while it is subjective, there was nothing boring about Legolas' action scenes. In fact, Weathertop and Moria aside, it is the best action in the series. Pointless is following Gandalf and tying everything back to Sauron. Radagast is pointless. The stupid love story is pointless. Legolas represents the Elves and does so very well.

Also, I get not being pleased with the battles being full on CGI, but where were these complaints for LOTR? So much of those battles are CGI.

 

[AnneFan]

When you write a story, you must first ask yourself what it is about at the core. What is the central narrative? The Hobbit films don't have that same urgency or drive.

 

[Quasimod0]

That fight scene was in fact so pointless that Bolg just kind of abruptly stops fighting and walks away with no repercussions. It was actually kind of bizarre.

He escapes while Legolas is distracted because he probably knows that Legolas will eventually best him. And then Legolas chases him on horseback. So its not exactly "no repercussions"

 

[Marvolo]

Is that the new defense? We'll fix it with the EE? Why the hell don't they fix it for the one that we actually get to see on the big screen?

I get you like these movies but come on.

Idk if thats Jackson's defense or not. I noticed with DOS that Jackson is no longer trying to make the theatrical cut a good cut in its own right. With LOTR's theatrical cuts they worked well. I can watch those cuts and not feel rushed or like Im missing anything (and thats knowing I am in fact missing stuff) the cuts are done so well that the TC's work great.

But with AUJ the TC felt like an EE. People complained, and its like Jackson got it in his head that if the people just want a shorter film he'll give it to them whether its actually a good cut of the film or not. And it sounds like hes taken that to its conclusion with BTFA and went at this film with as I said a butcher knife. I certainly dont approve of this or consider it a wise decision.

But its done and the cut is locked. All I can do at this point is hope that the EE is in fact an improvement. In the meantime tho Im not going to boycott this film or not see it in theaters. For all its problems, I know the film will have visuals I want to see on an 80' screen and Im not going to miss those visuals because the cut of the film has issues.

But it isn't good what Jackson seems to have done to get the runtime down. Not by a longshot.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

When you write a story, you must first ask yourself what it is about at the core. What is the central narrative? The Hobbit films don't have that same urgency or drive.

I agree, but that doesn't mean everything there is trash. Heck I hate what the Gandalf scenes do to the narrative, but I still like them.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Idk if thats Jackson's defense or not. I noticed with DOS that Jackson is no longer trying to make the theatrical cut a good cut in its own right. With LOTR's theatrical cuts they worked well. I can watch those cuts and not feel rushed or like Im missing anything (and thats knowing I am in fact missing stuff) the cuts are done so well that the TC's work great.

But with AUJ the TC felt like an EE. People complained, and its like Jackson got it in his head that if the people just want a shorter film he'll give it to them whether its actually a good cut of the film or not. And it sounds like hes taken that to its conclusion with BTFA and went at this film with as I said a butcher knife. I certainly dont approve of this or consider it a wise decision.

But its done and the cut is locked. All I can do at this point is hope that the EE is in fact an improvement. In the meantime tho Im not going to boycott this film or not see it in theaters. For all its problems, I know the film will have visuals I want to see on an 80' screen and Im not going to miss those visuals because the cut of the film has issues.

But it isn't good what Jackson seems to have done to get the runtime down. Not by a longshot.

I am going to go see it in the theater as well. But that doesn't mean you have to defend these films in such a manner that presents an excuse for all the decision Jackson has made.

And if he did take the criticisms to heart, he seems to have missed the point still. Cutting the story of the main plotline is not what should have.