Official 'The Hobbit' Thread - Part 17

[regwec]

It is one book, divided into six smaller ones.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

That being said, extended editions are just a way for people to screw you out of more money.

I disagree in this case. For one, they let you know right from the beginning there would be EEs. I don't have the Theatrical Versions, because I just waited for the EEs. Second, at least in regards to LOTR, there really is a lot of added material. It isn't like they added 5 minutes and called it an EE.

 

[CGHulk]

The EE are the only ones I've ever bought.

 

[Marvolo]

I bought both versions on Blu-ray and DVD. Sometimes I want to watch the shorter versions. In the case of ROTK I much prefer the theatrical cut. There is a number of things I like about its EE, but there is also a number of things I don't like. With the other two films I pretty much enjoy all the extended and added scenes.

 

[Lord]

With RotK i feel like the theatrical cut is a bit too incomplete, it completely cuts Saruman's fate, and he was a major player in the trilogy.

 

[jmc]

Saruman's arc I think in retrospect was always going to awkwardly handled given Jackson chose Helm's Deep as the climax for The Two Towers. The truth is the story in Towers was always going to suffer a little bit with regards to film adaptation given it's structure. It didn't help that Books 3 and 4 were essentially two different stories running over different time periods.

 

[InCali]

With RotK i feel like the theatrical cut is a bit too incomplete, it completely cuts Saruman's fate, and he was a major player in the trilogy.

Please don't get me started about Saruman's "fate" t: That was butchery; plain and simple. PJ had an opportunity to do some REALLY interesting film work with the death of the body of Saruman/Curumo. How Saruman was actually killed in the film is something else that rather, um, bothers me.

 

[InCali]

I disagree in this case. For one, they let you know right from the beginning there would be EEs. I don't have the Theatrical Versions, because I just waited for the EEs. Second, at least in regards to LOTR, there really is a lot of added material. It isn't like they added 5 minutes and called it an EE.

I guess there's degrees of screwing the public. If they weren't double dipping, they could have packaged both versions and made less money. If they remake it in 3D for release, it would be the same thing. You get a little more for a lot more money. Maybe screwing is overstating things.....maybe we can agree on double dipping??

 

[Lord]

Was his death that much better in the books? I honestly liked the way it was handled in the movies.

 

[InCali]

That's actually incorrect. It uses a six book structure, but LOTR was always written as ONE book. Not three. Not six. The publisher made Tolkien split it into three, but he was very much against it.

I think we're talking semantics here, but you are correct. Tolkien himself saw it as one book, but with clear delineations and wanted it published as such. The publishers didn't think people would buy a single, large volume. I guess they had never read War and Peace, Les Miserables, or David Copperfield; all fairly successful efforts.

EDIT: After thinking about it, maybe the most accurate way to say it is that there are 6 books which comprise the history of the war of the ring (Which Tolkien absolutely wanted published as a single volume)??? Even within the LotR, the books are clearly stated to be Book 1, 2, etc. I'm not 100% sure if that was the professor's original intent, but seem to recall that it was. The full name for those of you who are interested is "The Downfall of the Lord of the Rings and the Return of the King", but knowing that might have slightly taken away from any suspense.....

 

[InCali]

Was his death that much better in the books? I honestly liked the way it was handled in the movies.

From a "purist's" perspective it was beyond any shadow (no pun intended) of a doubt better. I won't spoil it for anyone who hasn't read the book, but an interesting thing happens with the death of the body of Saruman/Curumo. The book more fully develops the downfall (in more ways than one) of one of the great amongst the Maiar (Curumo).

You should "definitely" read "The Silmarillion" and then "The Lord of the Rings" or, if you prefer, you can just read the latter as it can stand on its own (but you won't understand some of the background of what is going on). It'll probably take you a couple of weeks or so, but will be well worth it. I wish I could read it again for the first time (I know that makes no sense, but I think you get my drift t.

 

[InCali]

Yeah it's a lot of fun, though I'm sure it's also a horror story for purists. The only thing that bugs me are the creatures that appear to be essentially Wargs and Trolls, but named other things.

Good thing I don't game, huh?

 

[Roose Bolton]

In the sense that it's an original story, with an original concept that is not at all anything Tolkien ever described whilst using elements from the Silmarillion to provide a background set within an area of Middle-Earth in a timeframe between novels.

 

[InCali]

In the sense that it's an original story, with an original concept that is not at all anything Tolkien ever described whilst using elements from the Silmarillion to provide a background set within an area of Middle-Earth in a timeframe between novels.

Yes. The story stands on its own. If you read the Silmarillion and the Hobbit, it gives you a little more (actually a lot more) context. Also, for you Hobbit fans out there, The Hobbit actually had to be reworked by Professor Tolkien after it was first published to fit in with LotR. I'd give anything to have the original book, but have never seen a copy (probably few have). The main change had to do with how Bilbo got the ring from Gollum. Tolkien later explained the change to the Hobbit by saying that Bilbo had not told the truth about the actual events that took place in the chapter "Riddles in the Dark". Originally, Gollum was willing to give him the ring after losing the "game". That clearly wouldn't fit with the ring of power we saw in the LotR.

EDIT: Did a little bit of digging.

http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/tolkien-book-store/original-hobbits.htm

$4,000 for a 1938 US edition. You can "enquire" about the original 1937 edition, but unless you have way more money than I do, the enquiry won't go any farther than that. That's an early am cup of coffee for me.....

 

[kane9321]

finally saw it lastnite....IT WAS AMAZING

 

[InCali]

finally saw it lastnite....IT WAS AMAZING

Have you read the book?

 

[CB Fan]

Saw this last Sunday and I really liked it. I haven't read the books so I was thinking there would be more going on with Smaug but overall I was satisfied. I think the second film is the best though.

 

[Vartha]

Just picked this up at Barnes n Noble. All metal and VERY Weighty!

 

[Silvermoon]

Just picked this up t Barnes n Noble. All metal and VERY Weighty!

Nice. I need to take a picture of all my Middle Earth movie stuff sometime... though part of me wants to wait until I get whatever it is that will come with the EE of BOTFA just so my collection is complete *lol*

 

[Apollo]

So I went to see the Five Armies without seeing the first two. I was pretty confused in some scenes.

Questions that were going on in my mind - These aren't meant to be answered. Just thought it would be funny to point out how confused I was haha.

1. Where did this Dragon come from and why is he randomly destroying this village?!
2. How can this Dragon talk?
3. Why is Bard the Bowman locked in a jail cell?
4. How did the boy know the spear would kill the Dragon?
5. Why is Gandolf locked in a cage?
6. How did Galadirel know he was there?
7. Why is Saurmon there helping them?! I thought the two were enemies?
7. I am confused with the fighting Ghosts.
8. Where did all this gold come from!
9. Why is Bilbo and the other dwarfs guarding the gold and no one else from the village is there?
10. Why is Thorin a king? who gave him that crown?
11. Where the heck did all these animorphs come from?

Again don't answer these. They are just for the LOL's. t:

 

[Vartha]

Nice. I need to take a picture of all my Middle Earth movie stuff sometime... though part of me wants to wait until I get whatever it is that will come with the EE of BOTFA just so my collection is complete *lol*

I'm still waiting for my daughter to send my exclusive Botfa Smaug Tee. lol

 

[Vartha]

Yeah, if you weren't already familiar with the stoy I can see those questions popping up if you hadn't seen the first two. lol

So I went to see the Five Armies without seeing the first two. I was pretty confused in some scenes.

Questions that were going on in my mind - These aren't meant to be answered. Just thought it would be funny to point out how confused I was haha.

1. Where did this Dragon come from and why is he randomly destroying this village?!
2. How can this Dragon talk?
3. Why is Bard the Bowman locked in a jail cell?
4. How did the boy know the spear would kill the Dragon?
5. Why is Gandolf locked in a cage?
6. How did Galadirel know he was there?
7. Why is Saurmon there helping them?! I thought the two were enemies?
7. I am confused with the fighting Ghosts.
8. Where did all this gold come from!
9. Why is Bilbo and the other dwarfs guarding the gold and no one else from the village is there?
10. Why is Thorin a king? who gave him that crown?
11. Where the heck did all these animorphs come from?

Again don't answer these. They are just for the LOL's. t:

 

[Silvermoon]

So I went to see the Five Armies without seeing the first two. I was pretty confused in some scenes.

Questions that were going on in my mind - These aren't meant to be answered. Just thought it would be funny to point out how confused I was haha.

1. Where did this Dragon come from and why is he randomly destroying this village?!
2. How can this Dragon talk?
3. Why is Bard the Bowman locked in a jail cell?
4. How did the boy know the spear would kill the Dragon?
5. Why is Gandolf locked in a cage?
6. How did Galadirel know he was there?
7. Why is Saurmon there helping them?! I thought the two were enemies?
7. I am confused with the fighting Ghosts.
8. Where did all this gold come from!
9. Why is Bilbo and the other dwarfs guarding the gold and no one else from the village is there?
10. Why is Thorin a king? who gave him that crown?
11. Where the heck did all these animorphs come from?

Again don't answer these. They are just for the LOL's. t:

Out of sheer curiosity, why would you go see the final part in a trilogy when you haven't seen the previous two films first?

Most of those would indeed be answered by seeing those first two parts. (#2 isn't explained though, I can't remember if Dragons being able to 'talk' is the case for all great dragons in Middle Earth or just some of the more impressive ones, someone more knowledgeable than me would probably be able to answer that)

 

[Lord]

So I went to see the Five Armies without seeing the first two. I was pretty confused in some scenes.

Questions that were going on in my mind - These aren't meant to be answered. Just thought it would be funny to point out how confused I was haha.

1. Where did this Dragon come from and why is he randomly destroying this village?!
2. How can this Dragon talk?
3. Why is Bard the Bowman locked in a jail cell?
4. How did the boy know the spear would kill the Dragon?
5. Why is Gandolf locked in a cage?
6. How did Galadirel know he was there?
7. Why is Saurmon there helping them?! I thought the two were enemies?
7. I am confused with the fighting Ghosts.
8. Where did all this gold come from!
9. Why is Bilbo and the other dwarfs guarding the gold and no one else from the village is there?
10. Why is Thorin a king? who gave him that crown?
11. Where the heck did all these animorphs come from?

Again don't answer these. They are just for the LOL's. t:

I know Peter Jackson did a bad job in dividing stuff what could have been used in the last film, like Smaug, but it was a major mistake for you to see this one without having watched the previous ones

Though as time goes on, films are getting way too serialized, before this, Sequels used to be more episodic, and someone would be able to enjoy a Star Wars or Harry Potter movie without having knowledge of the previous ones (Not counting Deathly Hallows though). The lord of the Rings should have been one of those few times this type of strategy was absolutely necessary, and even then, some people went to see Return of the King without having seen the other two.

 

[InCali]

So I went to see the Five Armies without seeing the first two. I was pretty confused in some scenes.

Questions that were going on in my mind - These aren't meant to be answered. Just thought it would be funny to point out how confused I was haha.

1. Where did this Dragon come from and why is he randomly destroying this village?!
2. How can this Dragon talk?
3. Why is Bard the Bowman locked in a jail cell?
4. How did the boy know the spear would kill the Dragon?
5. Why is Gandolf locked in a cage?
6. How did Galadirel know he was there?
7. Why is Saurmon there helping them?! I thought the two were enemies?
7. I am confused with the fighting Ghosts.
8. Where did all this gold come from!
9. Why is Bilbo and the other dwarfs guarding the gold and no one else from the village is there?
10. Why is Thorin a king? who gave him that crown?
11. Where the heck did all these animorphs come from?

Again don't answer these. They are just for the LOL's. t:

t: That's great.....read the books and you'll even be MORE confused (like me) by the movies than if you didn't.

Dragons are notoriously poor houseguests. They're greedy, burn stuff, eat a lot, are too big for all but the largest of hobbit holes (though one might fit in Merry's house), their breath is excruciatingly foul, and sanitation issues are sure to arise.