Official 'The Hobbit' Thread - Part 17

[regwec]

Isn't Dagor Dagorath arguably far into even our future? I have never understood whether it was supposed to herald the end of Tolkien's mythical world and the beginning of ours, or the end of both and the beginning of cosmological perfection as in Revelation.

 

[InCali]

I won't lie, i would actualy have liked to see what kind of story Tolkien would bring in the 4th age, as well as Dagor Dagorath, but unless they find some 100+ more pages of Tolkien stories taking place post-Return of the King, i don't think anyone should touch that period.

Wow....I'd forgotten about that. Dagor Dagorath would be beyond shredding. Turin with Gurthang. Way, WAY too cool. I think that would be the true creation of this world and the final sundering of the Eldar and Edain.

It was said that Tuor, alone of Men, was numbered among the Eldar, sundered from the Edain, and joined the Noldor. I wonder if that might be true of the others of the House of Hador (Hurin, Huor, Turin) after Dagor Dagorath. That is, if they wouldn't be given the same choice the Peredhil (Elrond and Elros) and Elrond's descendants (Elladan, Elrohir, and Arwen) were given; to be counted amongst the Edain or the Eldar.

Turin was such a tortured soul. It would be awesome to see his redemption and revenge. Killing a Vala and not just any Vala. Anglachel (later Gurthang) was made by Eol from a meteorite, was said to be imbued with his spirit (not such a great spirit either.....), and was sentient. I wonder if it (or its mate Anguirel) are the only swords that could truly kill Morgoth? The metal from which it was made fell from the sky. That HAS to be important......

It would have been an unbelievably fitting end to the entire story of middle-earth and I can't blame anyone for wanting it on paper or another medium.

Thanks for that......

 

[InCali]

Isn't Dagor Dagorath arguably far into even our future? I have never understood whether it was supposed to herald the end of Tolkien's mythical world and the beginning of ours, or the end of both and the beginning of cosmological perfection as in Revelation.

Me neither, but, man, did I ever get carried away just thinking about it.

EDIT: Probably the latter but I couldn't help myself.......t:

 

[regwec]

In that case, it's an invitation for Michael Bay to give us Orcs in tanks and Elves with plasma rifles.

 

[Schlosser85]

I don't even want to imagine a Michael Bay so-called Lord of the Rings movie.

Shia LaBeouf as Frodo, with Megan Fox tossed in as a made-up bangin' hot love interest whose clothes all get ripped off except for strategic PG-13 places climbing those rocks to Mordor, and Sam as some Seth Rogen-esque sidekick who provides what is supposedly comic relief and is actually just ****ing annoying.

Mark Wahlberg or Josh Duhamel as Aragorn.

All abridged into one 2 hour movie.

Don't forgot lots of explosions, cleavage, and racist/sexist jokes.

 

[InCali]

In that case, it's an invitation for Michael Bay to give us Orcs in tanks and Elves with plasma rifles.

PLEASE don't even SAY that. You've just wrecked what was starting out to be a pretty good day.

EDIT: In order to put things right, I'm going to have to get off work early, go get a pastrami sandwich from Langer's, and go see a movie. That ought to go a long way towards saving my Friday.

 

[Vartha]

In that case, it's an invitation for Michael Bay to give us Orcs in tanks and Elves with plasma rifles.

so you're saying Star wars? hahaha

 

[regwec]

I suppose so! It's somewhat intriguing to think a prophetic awakening of ancient beings like Turin Turambar, come into our own world to lead modern (or futuristic) armies against the ultimate evil. It would probably make for dreadful fiction, but it would be interesting.

 

[Vartha]

Well I'm SURE Disney would try to make money off that idea. lol

 

[craigdbfan]

I suppose so! It's somewhat intriguing to think a prophetic awakening of ancient beings like Turin Turambar, come into our own world to lead modern (or futuristic) armies against the ultimate evil. It would probably make for dreadful fiction, but it would be interesting.

Visually it would probably look like Warhammer 40k.

 

[terry78]

Frankly I'm surprised Disney never did get the rights to these books. It seems up their alley, though WB allowed PJ to get near R rated violence.

 

[InCali]

I suppose so! It's somewhat intriguing to think a prophetic awakening of ancient beings like Turin Turambar, come into our own world to lead modern (or futuristic) armies against the ultimate evil. It would probably make for dreadful fiction, but it would be interesting.

I'd "prefer" that this has already taken place in Middle-earth and that the earth we live in is a different situation. Then, someone finds 350 or so pages of lost manuscripts from JRR, Christopher puts them in order, and sells the rights to someone who will do a faithful rendering for the big screen. Is THAT too much to ask for?

EDIT: I'm talking Dagor Dagorath and not A New Shadow Tale.

 

[DKDetective]

Personally, I don't want any Fourth Age stories from anyone because my interpretation of Tolkien's works, especially once he abandoned The New Shadow story, was that no great stories came out of that era because as regwec aptly put it, with the dawning the 4th age and the exodus of the elves, the magic went out of the world and it slowly became our own. It is not supposed to be an era of excitement and heroism, but a peaceful transition to more mundane times. Sometimes things are better left to the imagination and backstory for the tales we do have. The Star Wars prequels are a perfect example of that. Execution issues aside, the tale of Anakin's downfall might have just been best left as a vague backstory for the OT. We have become content hogs and should be more appreciative of what stories we do have and should realize the creative greatness of leaving certain stories untold.

 

[regwec]

Frankly I'm surprised Disney never did get the rights to these books. It seems up their alley, though WB allowed PJ to get near R rated violence.

They very nearly did get the rights, back in the 1960s.

 

[Kahran Ramsus]

If they were to do further film adaptations, the two things I would be most interested in would be the Fall of Numenor and the War of the Last Alliance.

 

[Lord]

I'd "prefer" that this has already taken place in Middle-earth and that the earth we live in is a different situation. Then, someone finds 350 or so pages of lost manuscripts from JRR, Christopher puts them in order, and sells the rights to someone who will do a faithful rendering for the big screen. Is THAT too much to ask for?

EDIT: I'm talking Dagor Dagorath and not A New Shadow Tale.

A New shadow would be a good warm up for Dagor Gagorath though.

But in a way, a tale set after Return of the King would most likely be closer to A game of Thrones, since there wouldn't be much magic left, and all the evil around would come from people and their corruption.

 

[regwec]

Thranduil's stupid line to Legolas at the end of TBoFA was a set up for "Strider: The Smallville Years".

 

[InCali]

If they were to do further film adaptations, the two things I would be most interested in would be the Fall of Numenor and the War of the Last Alliance.

The entire Second Age in general and The Akallabêth in particular could make for a very entertaining film experience if done right. It would make more sense if it came after the downfall of Morgoth, which would make more sense if it came after the revolt of the Noldor, which would make more sense........

I guess I'm saying "if you're going to start anywhere, it might as well be the beginning".

The Akallabêth would definitely need to be filled in and there would be a LOT of room for interpretation (which sort of scares me) as it's relatively short and isn't as detailed as of some of the other tales. It's a great story though. I'd love to see the fleet of Ar-Pharazôn and the humbling of Sauron as well as his assault on Aman. It would make for some astounding cinematography.

 

[InCali]

Thranduil's stupid line to Legolas at the end of TBoFA was a set up for "Strider: The Smallville Years".

No kidding. Aragorn was, what, about 10 years old, his father had been dead for about 8 years, and there's absolutely NO indication (and very little real possibility) that Thranduil had ever even met him.

Thank you, Mr. Jackson, for your enchanting segue into the War of the Ring. What was Legolas doing all those years between 2941 through 3018? Hanging out with the rangers in the north? Why wasn't he with Strider when he met the hobbits at Bree? Please......ugh....

 

[Silvermoon]

No kidding. Aragorn was, what, about 10 years old, his father had been dead for about 8 years, and there's absolutely NO indication (and very little real possibility) that Thranduil had ever even met him.

Thank you, Mr. Jackson, for your enchanting segue into the War of the Ring. What was Legolas doing all those years between 2941 through 3018? Hanging out with the rangers in the north? Why wasn't he with Strider when he met the hobbits at Bree? Please......ugh....

As I've said before, in the books - yes, he would've been 10 years old. But in the films, because PJ still had him in as 87 in Two Towers (Extended Edition), but nixed the large majority of the 17 year gap between Bilbo's birthday and Frodo leaving (I'd say a year, maybe 2 passes at most to give Gandalf time leave - get to where he needs to go/do what he does - and come back), that would make Aragorn mid-20's at the time of the film versions of The Hobbit instead.

I had no problem with this change, having a 17 year gap in the Fellowship of the Ring film (pretty much regardless of how they did it) would've, IMO, reduced the tension and urgency of the situation (some things work better on page than on film).

Book timeline =/= film timeline, it happens.

Also as to what Legolas was doing for that time, for me, the seeds of reconciliation were planted in that last scene between Thranduil and Legolas - I doubt Legolas spent all 60 years (film timeline) away from his home. I imagine he journeyed for some years, maybe a decade or so, became friends with Aragorn, and then returned home and sorted things out with his father. After all, when he went to Rivendell for the Council, he was with other Mirkwood elves - he wasn't on his own - to me indicating he was still sent as an emissary by his father.

Just my opinion though.

 

[titansupes]

This thread has been on fire for the last few days. Great, intriguing reading. I've put so many more Tolkien related books on my Amazon wishlist now.

 

[Boom]

I'm about to start the Volsunga Saga .

 

[jmc]

I highly recommend the Rob Inglis read Audiobook versions of Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit if people want something a bit more dramatised. Chris Lee also does a great Audiobook reading of Children of Hurin.

 

[regwec]

I know I plug it constantly, but the BBC radio play of LOTR is probably the best dramatisation of any of Tolkien's works we will ever have.

 

[Lord]

For those who have read the lord of the rings books, were the movie adaptations that different and against the spirit of the books? Up until now i've been constantly hearing that it was a good adaptation.