Official 'The Hobbit' Thread - Part 17

[Marvolo]

Along with more Alfrid scenes.

 

[Victarion]

Well, he does have a fanclub on tumblr.

 

[Roose Bolton]

To be fair, even i was expecting more out of it, in least TF3's action moments felt like a ride, and i could see how some people enjoyed it, Extinction was extremely bland, Bay had the Dinobots to give the "wow factor".

As bad as the past TF films have been, each one did try to up the game, and by the 3rd film, Bay had delivered some quite impressive set pieces Chicago. Age of extinction managed to repeat everything that had already been done, and make it less impressive, even the dialogue has 10 times gotten dumber, i think i gringed at almost every scene featuring some kind of interaction. Did the first 3 films have such dumb dialogues like "never is here", "i also have a saying: i don't care", or "My face is my warrant"?

Even the logic took a worse nosedive, i get it why humans decided to turn against Autobots, but why the hell would they work with and listen to a much shadier bot like Lockdown?

Well, enough talking about Bayformers 4, i honestly hope that one doesn't last as top film of the year at the box office, while Hobbit 3 wasn't all that amazing either, it was still quite entertaining.

I liked the Thorin scenes quite a lot, a shame there weren't more scenes with Balin though.

If more of us valued home over Transformers then the world would be a merrier place.

 

[Marvolo]

Well, he does have a fanclub on tumblr.

Why am I not surprised...

Im probably going to have to fast forward through the commentary for this film, cause if I hear Boyens say that Alfrid is "in the spirit of Tolkien" Ill do this:

 

[Boom]

My heart can't take listening to the Hobbit commentaries. Hearing them explain and attempt to justify half the things they've done here would be too much.

 

[InCali]

To be fair, even i was expecting more out of it, in least TF3's action moments felt like a ride, and i could see how some people enjoyed it, Extinction was extremely bland, Bay had the Dinobots to give the "wow factor".

As bad as the past TF films have been, each one did try to up the game, and by the 3rd film, Bay had delivered some quite impressive set pieces Chicago. Age of extinction managed to repeat everything that had already been done, and make it less impressive, even the dialogue has 10 times gotten dumber, i think i gringed at almost every scene featuring some kind of interaction. Did the first 3 films have such dumb dialogues like "never is here", "i also have a saying: i don't care", or "My face is my warrant"?

Even the logic took a worse nosedive, i get it why humans decided to turn against Autobots, but why the hell would they work with and listen to a much shadier bot like Lockdown?

Well, enough talking about Bayformers 4, i honestly hope that one doesn't last as top film of the year at the box office, while Hobbit 3 wasn't all that amazing either, it was still quite entertaining.

I liked the Thorin scenes quite a lot, a shame there weren't more scenes with Balin though.

With regard to the last &%^$# formers movie, you are my new hero. I've always wanted to say this "Thank you Lord". t:

 

[InCali]

My heart can't take listening to the Hobbit documentaries. Hearing them explain and attempt to justify half the things they've done here would be too much.

Why can't a director just put a terrific (LotR and The Silmarillion were better books IMO) book on film without ripping the guts out of it in the name of this, that, or the other thing??? Please, Lord, make it so. t:

 

[InCali]

If more of us valued home over Transformers then the world would be a merrier place.

I value purgatory over the *&#$% formers movie to which I was last subjected (admittedly, I played an unfortunate role in that), let alone my home. A lesson learned. I rather like the transformers that change the amplitude of voltage and find them helpful. Give me a 100:1X step up transformer with 120V input and unlimited amperage if I ever even think about going and seeing one of those frelling movies again.

My hat is off (if I understand things correctly) to the Tolkien family for keeping The Silmarillion under wraps. If there's ever anyone who will treat it in a respectful way, I'd pay diamonds to see the many, many hours it would take to tell the story.

 

[Marvolo]

My heart can't take listening to the Hobbit commentaries. Hearing them explain and attempt to justify half the things they've done here would be too much.

Jackson is pretty forthright about it all. He straight up calls these film his own interpretation of the material not an adaption of the Hobbit. Boyens is the one who really tries to force a square peg into a round hole. She wants to think or argue that everything is in the spirit of Tolkien while Jackson just admits that things were done because thats how he or another person (Howe and Lee for example) wanted it to be on screen. Jackson just lets Boyens try to make it seem Tolkien approved but its pretty clear that he's given up trying to please everyone and is tired of defending his choices. Like he says "Some people will never ever be happy with these interpretations of the material".

 

[Roose Bolton]

I value purgatory over the *&#$% formers movie to which I was last subjected (admittedly, I played an unfortunate role in that), let alone my home. A lesson learned. I rather like the transformers that change the amplitude of voltage and find them helpful. Give me a 100:1X step up transformer with 120V input and unlimited amperage if I ever even think about going and seeing one of those frelling movies again.

My hat is off (if I understand things correctly) to the Tolkien family for keeping The Silmarillion under wraps. If there's ever anyone who will treat it in a respectful way, I'd pay diamonds to see the many, many hours it would take to tell the story.

Well I think with the Tolkiens it's not so much waiting for someone to do it justice, as it is that they don't think any of the material should ever be done in any medium that isn't the written word.

 

[InCali]

Well I think with the Tolkiens it's not so much waiting for someone to do it justice, as it is that they don't think any of the material should ever be done in any medium that isn't the written word.

Understandable, but I hope that's not the case. Hey, they own the rights. I respect that, but think The Silmarillion could be beautiful if done right.

 

[Iceman]

Do all the Tolkiens share the same view?

 

[Marvolo]

Do all the Tolkiens share the same view?

No.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Simon and Royd support the films, Christopher and the others don't.

 

[InCali]

Simon and Royd support the films, Christopher and the others don't.

Maybe there's hope then that if they were approached correctly that something could get done??? I know a fair amount about the books, but am lost when it comes to Tolkien family matters. I'm sure that if they did a reality show after that Kardashian show, that my daughter would watch it and let me know what's up.

 

[Roose Bolton]

Well, basically it's Christopher who is dead set against any and all films based on his father's works. And since he has a hand in The Silmarillion and Children of Hurin it makes the it unlikely that they'll be readily served up for any adaptation that is outside literature.

His son Simon is much more open, and held the opinion that the Tolkien estate should have worked with Peter Jackson on the films. He even went against his father's wishes and cooperated with the filmmakers.

Royd Tolkien is himself a film producer and has camoes in a few of these films if I can remember correctly, and recently hosted a charity event with Battle of Five Armies to help raise funds.

As for the rest of them, I'm not entirely sure what their views are. But basically Christopher's views are ones that are enforced and held by the Tolkien estate.

 

[regnak]

Well, basically it's Christopher who is dead set against any and all films based on his father's works. And since he has a hand in The Silmarillion and Children of Hurin it makes the it unlikely that they'll be readily served up for any adaptation that is outside literature.

His son Simon is much more open, and held the opinion that the Tolkien estate should have worked with Peter Jackson on the films. He even went against his father's wishes and cooperated with the filmmakers.

Royd Tolkien is himself a film producer and has camoes in a few of these films if I can remember correctly, and recently hosted a charity event with Battle of Five Armies to help raise funds.

As for the rest of them, I'm not entirely sure what their views are. But basically Christopher's views are ones that are enforced and held by the Tolkien estate.

But what can Christopher do once he is gone? Somehow I doubt he can enforce his will from the grave. What is he going to do disinherit someone if they authorize a movie after they inherit? That is nuts. And if he tried to put something like that in his will I bet a good lawyer could get it thrown out on grounds of senility or madness.

 

[regwec]

Christopher probably played a significant role in the development of LOTR, too. JRR sent Christopher early drafts while the latter was fighting with the RAF in South Africa, during WWII.

I completely understand why Christopher is protective of all of the works.

 

[regwec]

But what can Christopher do once he is gone? Somehow I doubt he can enforce his will from the grave. What is he going to do disinherit someone if they authorize a movie after they inherit? That is nuts. And if he tried to put something like that in his will I bet a good lawyer could get it thrown out on grounds of senility or madness.

No, they wouldn't. There is a presumption towards sound mind, and there is no evidence whatsoever that Christopher doesn't have one.

In any case, the intellectual property in some of the works isn't necessarily Christopher's to bequeath, where he has only acted as editor. He could conceivably write some IP that is his into trust, but that would have to be a trust for someone, or else a charity. If it's the former, then the individual(s) in question could always assign their rights if they were a legal adult and they wanted to. Eventually, the trust would fall afoul of the rule against perpetuities. If he is feeling very obstructive, he might write something in trust to a charity, but the trustees would still be under the obligation to invest, and that may very well require them to sell some rights.

This is moot in the long term, because everything eventually falls out of copyright, which is why we have to much Sherlock Holmes and Dracula nowadays. I have no doubt that Beren and Luthien dolls, or Mordor Monopoly, are coming are way by about 2050.

 

[Lord]

But what can Christopher do once he is gone? Somehow I doubt he can enforce his will from the grave. What is he going to do disinherit someone if they authorize a movie after they inherit? That is nuts. And if he tried to put something like that in his will I bet a good lawyer could get it thrown out on grounds of senility or madness.

And when that happens would the public still be willing to go watch more Middle earth movies?

 

[regnak]

No, they wouldn't. There is a presumption towards sound mind, and there is no evidence whatsoever that Christopher doesn't have one.

In any case, the intellectual property in some of the works isn't necessarily Christopher's to bequeath, where he has only acted as editor. He could conceivably write some IP that is his into trust, but that would have to be a trust for someone, or else a charity. If it's the former, then the individual(s) in question could always assign their rights if they were a legal adult and they wanted to. Eventually, the trust would fall afoul of the rule against perpetuities. If he is feeling very obstructive, he might write something in trust to a charity, but the trustees would still be under the obligation to invest, and that may very well require them to sell some rights.

This is moot in the long term, because everything eventually falls out of copyright, which is why we have to much Sherlock Holmes and Dracula nowadays. I have no doubt that Beren and Luthien dolls, or Mordor Monopoly, are coming are way by about 2050.

So you are saying there is little he can do from the grave? Good.



To Lord: Of course they would. In my question Christopher would be acting like an incredible a*****e (trying to screw over your son due to a disagreement over film rights) so there would be scant sympathy for his position.

 

[regwec]

I'm just saying that no trust of rights can last for ever, and that copyrights have set limits.

Let me say again that Christopher Tolkien is not the devil here. The majority of his father's works would never have been published without him, and a crapfest like the Hobbit movies demonstrate the risks in submitting widely beloved literature to Hollywood's patented Lowest Common Denominator Machine.

 

[DKDetective]

No, they wouldn't. There is a presumption towards sound mind, and there is no evidence whatsoever that Christopher doesn't have one.

In any case, the intellectual property in some of the works isn't necessarily Christopher's to bequeath, where he has only acted as editor. He could conceivably write some IP that is his into trust, but that would have to be a trust for someone, or else a charity. If it's the former, then the individual(s) in question could always assign their rights if they were a legal adult and they wanted to. Eventually, the trust would fall afoul of the rule against perpetuities. If he is feeling very obstructive, he might write something in trust to a charity, but the trustees would still be under the obligation to invest, and that may very well require them to sell some rights.

This is moot in the long term, because everything eventually falls out of copyright, which is why we have to much Sherlock Holmes and Dracula nowadays. I have no doubt that Beren and Luthien dolls, or Mordor Monopoly, are coming are way by about 2050.

Uggh. I hated my trusts class and stuff like the rule against perpetuities was why.

 

[regnak]

I'm just saying that no trust of rights can last for ever, and that copyrights have set limits.

Let me say again that Christopher Tolkien is not the devil here. The majority of his father's works would never have been published without him, and a crapfest like the Hobbit movies demonstrate the risks in submitting widely beloved literature to Hollywood's patented Lowest Common Denominator Machine.

But he didn't want the LOTR trilogy either right? That's pretty devilish there. If he had hated the controversial Hobbit moves and said no more then I could understand him. But he wanted no LOTR, he gets no sympathy from me.

He doesn't like Jackson fine. Try and find someone who he thinks will do say Children of Hurin right and have the estate with script approval in the contract if possible. No one would complain about him wanting a quality product.

 

[Lord]

If they ever do more Middle earth movies, what story should they do next, i know The Silmarillion would be the next brand, but there many stories in there, which one to take first?