Official The Ultimates Thread

[El Bastardo]

I still like the "Suck it!" line. I don't see what the big deal is. Big whoop. Like Sabretooth was a fine-talking, line-walking, suit-wearing... okay, I can't rhyme with wearing, but you get the point - kind of guy when Millar was writing him.

And really, "Suck it!" is better than anything Kirkman did with him.

 

[K4tzm4n]

I guess people aren't used to that...Anyway, Sabretooth is a rapist...I don't find it far fetched to have him say that...But at the same time, I still feel like they're trying to write this too "edgy" to be "cool".

 

[Blader5489]

Except it's not arguing semantics.

Trying to argue the difference between between "touched" and "trounced" is the textbook definition of arguing semantics.

The bottom line is whether or not UXM continuity has been affected by Ultimates 3. Given the (pointless) events of Ultimates 3.3, claiming that UXM has been unaffected by Loeb's "writing" on the Ultimates is completely and utterly wrong; Ultimate X-Men has been altered because of Ultimates 3.

I still like the "Suck it!" line. I don't see what the big deal is.

How about, it's bad writing?

 

[El Bastardo]

Eh, I don't see that so much. It's just another story. Loeb said it best himself in a panel, I think. To paraphrase and add context, he essentially said they started with the sex tape because he does sex better than war, and would never have been able to top Millar as far as war scenarios go. And that's fair. If he'd tried to, everyone would have complained about how bad his war scenarios are. Boohoohoo, and all that.

It's a little tongue-in-cheek, how I paraphrased and what Loeb actually said. This shall, of course, be missed by those who don't want to see it, but I'm including this anyway.

Aside from art differences, which are there, and I suppose it's sad, but whatever - the fact that Iron Man has different colurz to his armor isn't enough to make me whine and object and complain - Loeb hasn't been that far-fetched or overreaching.

Of course, Blader's going to come and stab and stomp and tell me how wrong I am, but I'd expect nonetheless. A list of grievances if you will, sir, for good measure!

I mean, at the core, we have the Wanda-Pietro relationship more in the face. Whatever. It's nothing Millar never showed us. Millar just never wrote a story of which they were important pieces, pretty much, ever. But it was always there. This story, being that it's about them, necessitates it being overtly stated.

We have Hawkeye, who's a bit psychotic. Apparently this is gross mischaracterization, because, you know, nailing Natasha's wrists to the wall and then taunting her and putting an arrow in her forehead - at the end of Ultimates 2, still written by Millar - after having witnessed his children getting murdered and subsequently being tortured and killing people with his fingernails - these are all actions descriptive of a normal person. I mean, I know I have delusions of grandeur each day in which I murder people with my fingernails. I'm sure the mental health people would understand it as not psychotic.

I forgot what else. Eh, I'll remember eventually.

 

[El Bastardo]

Trying to argue the difference between between "touched" and "trounced" is the textbook definition of arguing semantics.

The bottom line is whether or not UXM continuity has been affected by Ultimates 3. Given the (pointless) events of Ultimates 3.3, claiming that UXM has been unaffected by Loeb's "writing" on the Ultimates is completely and utterly wrong; Ultimate X-Men has been altered because of Ultimates 3.

Except I've not entirely argued the meanings. The meanings of the two words are at the heart of the matter, yes, but only because of your gross misreading of my original post. When two words have different meanings, and you try to put the harsher word at similar meaning with the easy word, then yes, what we have is a gross misreading on your part, an incorrect reading, and thus the meanings of the words matter. It's not trying to argue the words "touch" and "feel."

For the record, "trounce" is a verb with several meanings, such as: "to beat severely, thrash"; "to punish"; "to defeat decisively." This is a bit difference from "touch." I never made a claim that UXM canon had not been touched by Ultimates 3 #3. I made the claim that it has not been trounced, which is to say, it has not been beaten severely, nor thrashed, nor defeated decisively. I'm leaving out "to punish," as that meaning does not apply quite directly.

You tried warping it in some inane attempt to prove me wrong, apparently. Your warping was incorrect. Clearly, UXM canon - the quite important part of where dinosaurs came from, oh my good heavens - has been affected and/or altered, whichever word you'd like to use. But then, I never claimed it hadn't been.

But it most certainly has not been trounced, which is the word I originally used, which my posts show. Thank you for misreading and continuing to hold on, have a splendid day.

 

[K4tzm4n]

p...wned?

 

[El Bastardo]

Who is?

 

[K4tzm4n]

At the moment, Blader.

 

[El Bastardo]

Aww, I like you. <3

 

[K4tzm4n]

You're the first person and only person on this board apparently haha. I'm most likely pwned as well for bringing myself into this.

 

[Blader5489]

We have Hawkeye, who's a bit psychotic. Apparently this is gross mischaracterization, because, you know, nailing Natasha's wrists to the wall and then taunting her and putting an arrow in her forehead - at the end of Ultimates 2, still written by Millar - after having witnessed his children getting murdered and subsequently being tortured and killing people with his fingernails - these are all actions descriptive of a normal person. I mean, I know I have delusions of grandeur each day in which I murder people with my fingernails. I'm sure the mental health people would understand it as not psychotic.

I can't speak for everyone, but I don't object to Hawkeye's suicidal characterization. You're right in that it makes sense (given the events of Ultimates 2) and, quite frankly, Hawkeye is the only remotely interesting character of Ultimates 3.

But my problem with Loeb's interpretation of Hawkeye isn't the characterization, it's the writing itself. It's one thing for him to have developed a death wish, but it's just poor writing for him to actually say, "Kill me. I'm better off dead." If you watch Futurama, the robot devil put it best:

You can't just have your characters announce how they feel. That makes me feel angry!

Clearly, UXM canon - the quite important part of where dinosaurs came from, oh my good heavens - has been affected and/or altered, whichever word you'd like to use.

It's been changed beyond the origin of the Savage Land. We have Wanda being conceived by Wolverine, who, for no logical reason, sought out Magda (he didn't want to outlive his loved ones, despite having said a page earlier he had no loved ones to return to ). On top of that, we have Magneto barging in on Wolverine and Magda mid-coitus, which is all fine and dandy because he completely forgets about it later on. Lulz.

 

[Blader5489]

At the moment, Blader.

The only person El Bastardo has ever "pwned" is himself, for putting up with this crap that Loeb calls a story.

 

[K4tzm4n]

Damn, I knew I'd only get myself involved. Anyway, good job on using a Futurama quote. Easily my favorite show. I agree with what you said as well in regards to altering a lot of the history. I don't recall, but it was left in the air as to who Wanda's actual father was, right? So far, this is such a disappointing run...The only redeeming thing is really the artwork...I'm staying just to see what they do with Hawkeye.

 

[El Bastardo]

It's been changed beyond the origin of the Savage Land. We have Wanda being conceived by Wolverine, who, for no logical reason, sought out Magda (he didn't want to outlive his loved ones, despite having said a page earlier he had no loved ones to return to ). On top of that, we have Magneto barging in on Wolverine and Magda mid-coitus, which is all fine and dandy because he completely forgets about it later on. Lulz.

...which still is not "trouncing," which leaves my original post fine and dandy - I like that, by the by, so see, I can be gracious - and your misreading of my post also fine and dandy.

Like it or dislike it or not care, it ultimately doesn't affect the canon in a trouncing way, which is what I said, because it doesn't hurt anything that anyone has ever written in UXM - aside from the dinosaurs, again.

Just to reiterate, not trouncing.

 

[MattXG]

Ultimatum begins...

 

[K4tzm4n]

Theories on who's hand that is?

 

[Artistsean]

It looks a little like Magneto's hand.

 

[K4tzm4n]

That's what I was thinking as well.

 

[Blader5489]

Loeb said it's Magneto's hand.

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Magneto and Galactus have been fooling around

 

[Neptune]

I don't know how bad some of you guys think the story is but the art alone is enough for me to keep reading the Ultimates t: I didn't really like the inclusion of Wolvie but this could still turn out to be good. And for the record: ULTIMATE HAWKEYE OWNS ALL!

 

[Egotastic]

ULTIMATE HAWKEYE OWNS ALL!

Except for anyone in the 616 Universe.

 

[Valorman]

I apologise, but i cant understand how anyone could pick up ultimates 3 and delude themselves into thinking theirs some kind of quality put into it.

 

[Darthphere]

I would argue you why you're really wrong, but I'm tired.

 

[K4tzm4n]

I apologise, but i cant understand how anyone could pick up ultimates 3 and delude themselves into thinking theirs some kind of quality put into it.

Yes, it sucks...However, it's managed to keep me entertained and I'm really hoping they try to answer all of these questions....There are only 2 issues left, right? I have a feeling they're just going to rush all of the plot together...Sigh. Well, the art is beautiful t: