Official The Ultimates Thread

[The Question]

Interesting. I think the clues Loeb gave about sword girl and gun guy point to both of them being Valkyrie and Hawkeye, considering Loeb talked so much about getting Millar's blessing in regard to his use of the characters. It's still hard to believe that Ultimates 3 Valkyrie is the same Ultimate Valkyrie from the Defenders...I figured it might be Valkyrie, but I thought it was going to be the real Asgardian one. Hm, maybe Loeb will reveal that Defender Valkyrie was the real Valkyrie all along...disguising herself as a superhero reject...?

Or, maybe she actually got good at stuff and earned Thor's respect, so he gave her a big ass Asgardian weapon.

 

[MattXG]

Interesting. I think the clues Loeb gave about sword girl and gun guy point to both of them being Valkyrie and Hawkeye, considering Loeb talked so much about getting Millar's blessing in regard to his use of the characters. It's still hard to believe that Ultimates 3 Valkyrie is the same Ultimate Valkyrie from the Defenders...I figured it might be Valkyrie, but I thought it was going to be the real Asgardian one. Hm, maybe Loeb will reveal that Defender Valkyrie was the real Valkyrie all along...disguising herself as a superhero reject...?

I like what I'm seeing and reading though. The foreshadowing to Ultimatum should appease those who want the Ultimate Universe to be a true alternative to 616 in reality and not just in advertisement. Sounds like some big changes to the status quo are gonna take place.

It could be a whole different girl still...

He probably would go to Millar and ask if it is ok if he dumped the character version he had made...

That or the Defenders Valkyrie might of prayed to Odin or something to give her true powers...or something...

 

[Kahoot]

Is Ultimate Ultimatum a new name for Ultimate Origin or something else extra?

If the real Valkyrie was in the Defenders Loki could have been playing with her too, making her think she was a useless hero.

 

[Mogwai]

If the real Valkyrie was in the Defenders Loki could have been playing with her too, making her think she was a useless hero.

that'd be a cool twist.

 

[WolfCypher]

Soooo...no sight of Spider-Woman...

The return of Venom and the appearance of Black Panther is good, but why no Spider-Woman?

 

[MattXG]

Is Ultimate Ultimatum a new name for Ultimate Origin or something else extra?

If the real Valkyrie was in the Defenders Loki could have been playing with her too, making her think she was a useless hero.

Ultimate Origins is the beginning.

Ultimatum is the end (of the universe as we know it now)

 

[Kahoot]

Ultimate Origins is the beginning.

Ultimatum is the end (of the universe as we know it now)

Are we getting them at the same time or will Origins be over whinter leading into Ultimatum in Spring/Summer?

 

[Xplicit Content]

If the real Valkyrie was in the Defenders Loki could have been playing with her too, making her think she was a useless hero.

I like that idea.

Also really hoping Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch get some development. I think out of all the Ultimates, these 2 have seen the least concentration outside of the incest hints. Also wonder how Loeb plans on handling that...whether he'll continue the flirtation, explain it, or just ignore it completely.

 

[Dread]

Hmm. It was obvious that Joe Mad was going to be a complete 180 from the style of Hitch, but this really showcases that even that estimate may have been moderate. The part I find amazing about this line-up is how much is mirrors 616. By that I mean, of course, inserting Spider-Man and Wolverine.

Granted, both have some sort of story reasons. Nick Fury has for dozens of USM issues vowed that once Spider-Man reaches legal age (18), he will be in the Ultimates whether he wants to or not, as he got his powers without the permission of the military. He's worked alongside them before and the Ultimates have bailed him out of jams. Then again, this is USM; EVERYONE has to bail him out because he is incapable, at least within the past 1-2 years, of beating his own antagonists. Wolverine, of course, has done missions for Nick Fury on occasion, without telling the rest of the X-Men.

But, c'mon, there is no way those two'd be on the Ultimates if not for NEW AVENGERS success. Millar & Hitch could have slapped Marvel's biggest two heroes onto The Ultimates from the start but purposefully chose the characters they did, who at the time were definartely C-List. The Avengers franchise was still being left for dead in favor of the X-Men when ULTIMATES #1 started.

No, what I find amazing about this artwork is that, if it does indeed depict some new character designs for costumes and weapons (note Thor's hammer), it signifies the shift that the Ultimate line is in. When the line started about 7 years ago, Marvel was just easing out of bankruptcy and Joe Q's reign was in it's rookie season. Ultimate injected Marvel with new blood in not only talent (Bendis & Millar were fresh faces at Marvel at the time), but new takes on old franchises, providing ore for Marvel projects in other mediums; subsequent cartoons and movies would use Ultimate heavilly. However, starting about 3-4 years ago, that talent and ideas from Ultimate made their way into 616 and energized things. Ultimate planted seeds, and Marvel 616 harvested, and what was left was a shell of it's former self. The Ultimate line is easily being neglected in favor of 616 and some titles just seem to be going through the motions, and most are down in sales for the past 2-3 years.

Years back, Marvel 616 wanted to be like Ultimate. Now Ultimate is becoming more like 616, because that is what is hottest now.

Still, some of these changes seem random and obligatory. Other artists besides Hitch got Thor's hammer right, why does Joe Mad seem incapable of going beyond the 60's design? Iron Man, Scarlet Witch, Magneto and Quicksilver just look like their 616 counterparts. Hawkeye's shift into a clone of Solid Snake just reveals that Joe Mad needs to stop obsessing over video games. And inserting Valkyre may be difficult. Some people, myself included, didn't just want a rehash of the Millar/Hitch stuff, but this almost looks like an entirely new series, one that may not have lasted had it started when Ultimates did.

Finally, you have the villains, who consist of the Brotherhood of Mutants plus Venom, seemingly thrown in because of Spider-Man and recognizability. The Ultimates have usually lacked for villains, but c'mon now. How about Ultron? Finally introduce a Red Skull? Or other villains? C'mon, man!

There's also Black Panther, who Hitch designed for ULTIMATES AVENGERS II.

Not sure what to make of this, especially as Jeph Loeb's work at Marvel since going exclusive has been relatively hit or miss (hit being FALLEN SON, misses including ONSLAUGHT REBORN and his WOLVERINE arc).

 

[Savage]

Is Ultimate Ultimatum a new name for Ultimate Origin or something else extra?

If the real Valkyrie was in the Defenders Loki could have been playing with her too, making her think she was a useless hero.

I can actually see that. The gods weren't able to do squat for some reason so maybe they sent Valkyre and even she got all screwy.

 

[El Bastardo]

You know, Dread, I read your post eevn despite it making my browser go all wonky with line width simply because it was you. Anyone else I'd probably have not bothered with... well, not that I frequent this thread much anyway. I'm afraid the uber-posters will try to eat me.

I can't say I agree, though. I mean, the 616-references are obvious, and I'd be an idiot to say they look nothing like their 616 counterparts, but it's not really as simple as saying "Well, it's because the Ultimate line is down and the 616 is up, so they're making the Ultimate line mimic the 616 line."

How can we say that Millar and Hitch wouldn't have started morphing them, were they doing Ultimates 3? Loeb's said in an interview that he's conspired with Millar about character directions, and Millar's agreed and said that it's definitely where he's seen the characters going. Loeb's also said that all the changes are explained, and he actually beat around the bush when asked if Spider-man and Wolverine were additions to the team - that, basically, just because they're in the picture titled "Heroes" doesn't mean they're a part of the Ultimates. You said yourself that they're really the only two Ultimate heroes who have ties to the Ultimates, so it wouldn't make sense to see Cyclops among them. They're probably not a part of the team, but will be making guest appearances - and looking at the "Villains" line-up, assuming both pictures to be the "Ultimates 3 cast in some shape or form," guest appearances make sense. No?

Heck, costume redesigns could be for as simple a reason as "Now that we're going global, we want to look different than we did while a part of the United States Military." That's a good enough reason, given the direction they started moving in at the end of Ultimates 2.13. Yes, fine, they look like 616 counterparts, assuming everything we see there is going to be the same in the interiors, in which case - well, why reinvent the wheel again? I think we should all be happy that Hawkeye isn't wearing purple and pink in the Ultimate U. t:

And Hawkeye doesn't look like Solid Snake at all. As for his costume not fitting in with my aforementioned costume redesign reason, well, he's towing the line since Black Widow's gone. Somebody's gotta be the gun-toting Black Ops wetworks person. At least he isn't huge, muscle-clad, and with tons of pouches like a Liefeld gun-toter.

While Onslaught Reborn likely does totally suck (I've not flipped through the issues), I liked Loeb's Wolverine arc. Fun, solid, workable, with only a minor continuity problem stemming from the first issue. Not too bad.

As for nothing going on in the Ultimate Universe, they're doing Ultimate events in 2008, with an aim, according to Loeb, to bring the Ultimate line back to its roots. Which would decidedly be not in the direction of "Hey, let's make it more 616 like."

 

[MattXG]

Still, some of these changes seem random and obligatory. Other artists besides Hitch got Thor's hammer right, why does Joe Mad seem incapable of going beyond the 60's design? Iron Man, Scarlet Witch, Magneto and Quicksilver just look like their 616 counterparts. Hawkeye's shift into a clone of Solid Snake just reveals that Joe Mad needs to stop obsessing over video games. And inserting Valkyre may be difficult. Some people, myself included, didn't just want a rehash of the Millar/Hitch stuff, but this almost looks like an entirely new series, one that may not have lasted had it started when Ultimates did.

Loeb already said the shift in the hammer and Scarlett Witch's appearances are story based....but please keep bashing Joe Mad without checking your facts....

...Hawkeye looks nothing like Solid Snake.... Have you ever even seen Solid Snake?

 

[Kahoot]

Loeb already said the shift in the hammer and Scarlett Witch's appearances are story based....but please keep bashing Joe Mad without checking your facts....

Still, stupid story...

Also what happed to the Ultimate Power fallout? Wasn't someone suppsed to end up in the ulimate univers? Wouldn't they join the team?

 

[MattXG]

Still, stupid story...

Also what happed to the Ultimate Power fallout? Wasn't someone suppsed to end up in the ulimate univers? Wouldn't they join the team?

Oh please tell me....how does it go?

Ultimate Power still has 3 issues to go and I have no idea how it will end...

 

[Kahoot]

Oh please tell me....how does it go?

Ultimate Power still has 3 issues to go and I have no idea how it will end...

Donno how it goes but they change it to be more 616

But wasn't that a big thing at the start? They were going on about the fallout with someone being left behind on both sides.

 

[Savage]

Loeb already said the shift in the hammer and Scarlett Witch's appearances are story based....but please keep bashing Joe Mad without checking your facts....

...Hawkeye looks nothing like Solid Snake.... Have you ever even seen Solid Snake?

I think he was saying that Hawkeye's shift to guns and his whole high tech ninja look reminds him of Solid Snake more than Hawkeye actually LOOKING like Solid Snake.

And about those changes being story-based? Who wants to bet they will just be throwaway lines like "I decided to change my look to fit my name" or somethinging like "That was just Loki messing with Mjolnir."? It's still just an excuse to make things more 616-like.

 

[Kahoot]

I think he was saying that Hawkeye's shift to guns and his whole high tech ninja look reminds him of Solid Snake more than Hawkeye actually LOOKING like Solid Snake.

And about those changes being story-based? Who wants to bet they will just be throwaway lines like "I decided to change my look to fit my name" or somethinging like "That was just Loki messing with Mjolnir."? It's still just an excuse to make things more 616-like.

Wouldn't a hi-tech ninja remind you of the hi-tech ninja from Metal Gear solid?

They better be better reason

 

[Colossal Spoons]

Oh crap, I didn't even think that was Hawkeye. I'm diggin the new took. Very Grifter-esque.

 

[deemar325]

I'm not feeling Jeph Loeb right about now, this all seems like a marketing ploy by adding Wolverine and Spidey if that is the case. Also when the f---k are we gonna get a Ultimate Red Skull?! The damn BrotherHood is the villians lame really lame.

Heh, I figured Joe Mad couldn't pull off a full 12 issues either Loeb announced Ult 3 will be 5 issue long. Yeah that's Joe Madueira to blame for that one. I don't like the fact Thor is back to his old hammer what is the use of changing what's been established?

All in all this looks like a major loser.

 

[El Bastardo]

Oh crap, I didn't even think that was Hawkeye. I'm diggin the new took. Very Grifter-esque.

YES! t:
And as we all know (or should know), Grifter pwns.

 

[Savage]

Wouldn't a hi-tech ninja remind you of the hi-tech ninja from Metal Gear solid?

They better be better reason

Yeah but those ninjas didn't use guns. (unless you count portable ops but that's getting too geeky) He just used Solid Snake as a general reference. I don't think many people would get the comparison if he said Grey Fox clone.

 

[El Bastardo]

He really doesn't remind me of Solid Snake. Or Liquid Snake. Or even Solidus, for that matter. Or even Raiden. Or Gray Fox.

 

[deemar325]

It's Joe Mad anything he draws these days is video game based.

 

[Savage]

He really doesn't remind me of Solid Snake. Or Liquid Snake. Or even Solidus, for that matter. Or even Raiden. Or Gray Fox.

Really? He looks like a Metal Gear character to me. Even his stance with the gun is giving me flashbacks.

 

[Kahoot]

Yeah but those ninjas didn't use guns. (unless you count portable ops but that's getting too geeky) He just used Solid Snake as a general reference. I don't think many people would get the comparison if he said Grey Fox clone.

I'd have had to check google for the name.