Official The Ultimates Thread

[El Bastardo]

Ultimate Wolverine vs. Hulk will never end. =D It will eventually pass into legend, MYTH, a tall tale, forever repeated by comics readers and fans and each time repeated added to a little more.

Effective for moving the story along, yes. But sufficient storytelling. No. It's a discredit to the characters that they were taken out seemingly quicker than the president was. It's just a shame when writers take characters not in their titles and abuse/depower them.

As someone else said, the X-Men, FF, and Spidey are bigger threats to the invasion force than the freakin' president, and for that matter, the entire United States Armed Forces put together. He ran away in a plane. He's not going to be as hard to find or dangerous as, say, the X-Men, were they allowed to flee and regroup/respond to the threat. So, really, makes a lot of sense that they were taken out quicker than the president was.

It is sufficient storytelling to make known, through mention in dialogue, that the X-Men and Fantastic Four superhuman threats have been neutralized and contained by the respective forces dispatched to handle them. It is sufficient because it's not leaving the fact out, but is not going so far as to devote pages to the events. Sufficient, bare minimum, as much as is needed. A mention was needed, whereas actual full-page action sequences are wanted.

I fail to see how any of the characters have been abused or depowered. Marvel obviously gave Millar the okay to end Ultimates 2 with a huge finale of "every Ultimate hero" vs. "the Liberators and their ginormous superhuman army." It doesn't hurt any other Ultimate book. We all know none of the heroes, unless it be some of the Ultimates, are going to die. In fact, what's going on with the other heroes in The Ultimates doesn't even have any impact on the other books (which, I believe, come after Ultimates 2 ends). And in case "depowered" was meant in the way of "lowering power levels" and not "removal of powers," well, there's no evidence that Millar has - if you'd like to see some of the X-Men with their power levels lower, though, read Kirkman's current run on Ultimate X-Men.

See, I fully get what you're saying, and I fully agree - it would have been madly kickass to have seen the Thing throw down with 10 of the generic superhuman soldiers, or Colossus, Wolverine, or Cyke doing the same. I'd have loved it. But it isn't essential to the storyline in Issues 10 or 11 of Ultimates 2 to be included. That's what I'm saying. And in its own way, it is, perhaps, a better alternative - we're all left to our own imaginations to decide how those throwdowns occurred, who went down first, how many they took with them, what happened, etc., if we are so inclined. Better than a Cyclops fan reading a page, watching Cyke get hammered before even shooting off an optic blast, and going "WTF."

As for Millar using them... well, heck, as far as I'm concerned, Millar has every right to use them. Millar introduced the Ultimate versions of both the X-Men and Fantastic Four, and the X-Men roster hasn't changed too too much from where he left it. No complaints from me in them being featured in a better written and better drawn book. At least, if Colossus has a single cell in Ultimates 2 Issue 12, he'll be better than he has been of late in Kirkman's Ult. X-Men.

 

[squeekness]

I'm just waiting for Thor to get back into the swing of things. I hope that was Odin answering his prayer and he comes back to kick some serious booty. Thor's my fave in this book and so far he's spent most of this arc languishing in a cell. Time for some action!

I am curious if Hulk's return will speed up that stupid Hulk/Wolverine mini. We need some explanation for the Hulk just showing up out of nowhere like that. I guess I wouldn't have minded the fact that the mini was abandoned, except that the two slices we got were so good. I want more!

 

[Shin-Natsume]

im still not sure about thor though
i think hes just mentally ill, and his brother is even the bigger weirdo...
spidey i guess will take a big role in this one, not only because hes a major player, but also because his relationship with fury in the utimate universe.
this plays after the current arc, and thus after the clone saga, so it might give away some hints...

 

[El Bastardo]

I don't think I'd be awfully surprised if it did come down that Thor really is a psycho, but I don't think it'll happen like that. If Thor's a psycho, then Loki is as well, and the Loki appearances have been too controlling for him to be a psycho. He's way too manipulative, and good at it, to not actually be a god. And, besides, that light answering Thor's call for help is too suspicious.

I was really kinda hoping/thinking that Pym only joined the Liberators, when Natasha offered him the chance, in order to screw them over and try to get a place back on The Ultimates. To that end, I figure he'd eventually sic the Ultron robots on the LIberators and help save the day. I suppose it's possible that he sent some Ultrons to get Thor out, but with the way the page with Cap heading in is drawn, it doesn't look too likely. That page really goes a long way to make it look like Thor just poofled from the cell, and that it was not broken/entered into or out of.

 

[squeekness]

I don't think I'd be awfully surprised if it did come down that Thor really is a psycho, but I don't think it'll happen like that. If Thor's a psycho, then Loki is as well, and the Loki appearances have been too controlling for him to be a psycho. He's way too manipulative, and good at it, to not actually be a god. And, besides, that light answering Thor's call for help is too suspicious.

I was really kinda hoping/thinking that Pym only joined the Liberators, when Natasha offered him the chance, in order to screw them over and try to get a place back on The Ultimates. To that end, I figure he'd eventually sic the Ultron robots on the LIberators and help save the day. I suppose it's possible that he sent some Ultrons to get Thor out, but with the way the page with Cap heading in is drawn, it doesn't look too likely. That page really goes a long way to make it look like Thor just poofled from the cell, and that it was not broken/entered into or out of.

That's what I was thinking, too. That's why I am hopeful that Thor will be in this fight eventually.

 

[El Bastardo]

I glanced at those first pages again. I was trying to remember what I forgot.

The dialogue, despite being, really, an obvious political/social comment on Man by the part of Millar (not biting on him for this, as what he writes is nothing I haven't seen in social theory), is also written to make Thor seem messianic - especially those first words: "Father, father, why have you forsaken me?" It's really hard to escape the similarities, and if following that, then the empty cell with no tampering is symbolic of the empty tomb with no tampering.

 

[celldog]

I glanced at those first pages again. I was trying to remember what I forgot.

The dialogue, despite being, really, an obvious political/social comment on Man by the part of Millar (not biting on him for this, as what he writes is nothing I haven't seen in social theory), is also written to make Thor seem messianic - especially those first words: "Father, father, why have you forsaken me?" It's really hard to escape the similarities, and if following that, then the empty cell with no tampering is symbolic of the empty tomb with no tampering.

I found that pretty interesting as well..... Funny how people who hate the Bible keep taking things from it.

I loved how Pym kept freaking out over where Cap was!! LOL Boy...has Cap made that guy his girl friend or what?? LOL

I guess Capt Jihad is "Wonderman" . That "W" is too obvious. I just hope Cap cleans his clock. But know Millar, he'll make it a narrow victory. It's interesting how Abomination had to soften Cap up for ol' Jihad. What a wuss...... Fight Cap straight up without him getting pounded by Abomination, if he's so tuff.

I think Loki and Thor are the real deal. I think Odin got him out of jail.

 

[celldog]

I glanced at those first pages again. I was trying to remember what I forgot.

The dialogue, despite being, really, an obvious political/social comment on Man by the part of Millar (not biting on him for this, as what he writes is nothing I haven't seen in social theory), is also written to make Thor seem messianic - especially those first words: "Father, father, why have you forsaken me?" It's really hard to escape the similarities, and if following that, then the empty cell with no tampering is symbolic of the empty tomb with no tampering.

I found that pretty interesting as well..... Funny how people who hate the Bible keep taking things from it.

I loved how Pym kept freaking out over where Cap was!! LOL Boy...has Cap made that guy his girl friend or what?? LOL

I guess Capt Jihad is "Wonderman" . That "W" is too obvious. I just hope Cap cleans his clock. But know Millar, he'll make it a narrow victory. It's interesting how Abomination had to soften Cap up for ol' Jihad. What a wuss...... Fight Cap straight up without him getting pounded by Abomination, if he's so tuff.

I think Loki and Thor are the real deal. I think Odin got him out of jail.

 

[celldog]

I just can't buy the F.F. in shackles.........especially after fighting Ultimate Submariner!!! Anybody read that issue??

Ben Grimm???? Are we kidding??

 

[ang_hulk]

my god............once again,the lieader of the liberators has a 616 counterpart and ITS NOT WONDERMAN.His alphabet doesnt have a W in it for godsake.

 

[The Question]

I found that pretty interesting as well..... Funny how people who hate the Bible keep taking things from it.

I loved how Pym kept freaking out over where Cap was!! LOL Boy...has Cap made that guy his girl friend or what?? LOL

I guess Capt Jihad is "Wonderman" . That "W" is too obvious. I just hope Cap cleans his clock. But know Millar, he'll make it a narrow victory. It's interesting how Abomination had to soften Cap up for ol' Jihad. What a wuss...... Fight Cap straight up without him getting pounded by Abomination, if he's so tuff.

I think Loki and Thor are the real deal. I think Odin got him out of jail.

I don't think it's really fair to call him "Captain Jihad." I mean, we don't even know if he's at all religious. He could be athiest for all we know.

 

[Darthphere]

I don't think it's really fair to call him "Captain Jihad." I mean, we don't even know if he's at all religious. He could be athiest for all we know.

Hes an ultra-conservative, anyone who is an enemy of the US, even if its warranted is an arab terrorist.

 

[The Question]

True. I guess I shouldn't try and think logically with him. That would be like trying to have a rational arguement with Ann Coulter.

 

[supermarvelman]

I'll say it again Capt Jihad better not be Wonderman

 

[supermarvelman]

I just can't buy the F.F. in shackles.........especially after fighting Ultimate Submariner!!! Anybody read that issue??

Ben Grimm???? Are we kidding??

Dude being sneak attacked by an army of Kamakazi super-soldiers, I think it's possible for the FF to be in Shackles.

 

[El Bastardo]

I found that pretty interesting as well..... Funny how people who hate the Bible keep taking things from it.

Are you amused easily, by any chance?

Nope, I'm not going to get roped into any debate of morality or ideology with you. It's not even about that trash. I just want to point something out.

Just because someone hates a book doesn't mean they can't, or wouldn't want to, draw from it, or draw similarities to it. It's not a matter of necessarily liking the book at all, but about making a symbolism that people can understand. The symbolic messiah as we know it is something that, while it inevitably stretches back to the Christian mythos, can be understood by all readers (or, well, assumedly so), regardless of their being Catholic, Protestant, or Athiest. I mean, if you're easily amused, that's great, but I don't think it's a call for insane laughter that a non-religious person uses symbolism originating in a religious literary work. Lewis Black, on the other hand, certainly is a call for insane laughter.

Steinbeck, a revered author of American Literature, was hardly religious in the Christian sense, and though he makes a few anti-Christian comments throughout The Grapes of Wrath, structured the book to have many, many, many Biblical similarities. For example.

 

[ang_hulk]

He was some sick kid that cap yelled at who got "healed" and became a super hero for his country,that country happens to be an enemy of ours so we consider him a villian,that and he leads a team who has wiped out our most treaured monuments.He isnt wonderman.


since some people still have trouble seeing why the thing would be in shackles,look know further then wolverines claws,which he cant break because they are adamantium and im betting those are made of it.

 

[GNR]

I glanced at those first pages again. I was trying to remember what I forgot.

The dialogue, despite being, really, an obvious political/social comment on Man by the part of Millar (not biting on him for this, as what he writes is nothing I haven't seen in social theory), is also written to make Thor seem messianic - especially those first words: "Father, father, why have you forsaken me?" It's really hard to escape the similarities, and if following that, then the empty cell with no tampering is symbolic of the empty tomb with no tampering.

Yup,the idea of Thor being this Messiah type character with parallels to the story of Christ were very obvious in #4 and 5 when the team goes to take him down in Norway while he prays in the field.Very cool touch from Millar.

 

[Eros]

lost all respect for the writers[and the Ultimates], when "Barbara Bush" died, its tasteless and frankly just plain silly[among the other poltical garbage]. A complete disgrace to Lee and Kirbys characters and team IMO.

 

[Savage]

lost all respect for the writers[and the Ultimates], when "Barbara Bush" died, its tasteless and frankly just plain silly[among the other poltical garbage]. A complete disgrace to Lee and Kirbys characters and team IMO.

But it's A-ok when anybody else dies? Yes, let's have an invasion were coincidentaly no important people died. Just a bunch of no-names.

 

[kiuju2k]

Yeah i wasn't buying Ben in shackles at least not ultimate Ben grimm.. suicide super soliders should have been all the easier for him imo. He should be the anchor guy like banner. I didn't like that too much espcially after reading Ult. FF. and ultimate nightmare, ext.. no freakin way buddy. Its gonna be a good fight though. Iron Man 6 where you at?

 

[ang_hulk]

those soilders are faster then him,they out number him,they have johnny and hes an idiot,thats enough for me.There stong,mabey stronger then cap,a few of them pushed over the staue of liberty so they could hold ben long enough,not to mention him not wanting to see anyone die and again those might be adamantium and he might be drugged.These guys didnt go in blind,they stole shields tech and records which im sure contained any possible weakness of any super human on earth,mutant or not.ALSO-what if there buying time?

 

[Eros]

But it's A-ok when anybody else dies? Yes, let's have an invasion were coincidentaly no important people died. Just a bunch of no-names.

They should not have used a real world figure in the first place, they used it as yet another way to get at Bush [In some form or another]. Why on earth are they useing real world figures in a comic book is beyond me. look bam Barbara Bush is dead..wow shock Value points thier Leave the polotical garbage out of comics, especially when you have real people "dieing" on the pages of a 3 dollar comic strip.

 

[El Bastardo]

Oh, stop trying to persuade them.

The concept of "surprise bum-rushed by a gazillion superhuman troops taking down the Thing or Colossus or any of the other heroes" makes no sense to them.

Of course, by that reasoning, since the Liberators' army was able to take down the Ultimates, I guess what SHIELD should have done was hired Thing and Colossus, used all that excess money to fund their salaries, and depended on them rather than the Ultimates. Sigh. Another goof by the American Government.

 

[The Question]

They should not have used a real world figure in the first place, they used it as yet another way to get at Bush [In some form or another]. Why on earth are they useing real world figures in a comic book is beyond me. look bam Barbara Bush is dead..wow shock Value points thier: Leave the polotical garbage out of comics, especially when you have real people "dieing" on the pages of a 3 dollar comic strip.

How is it a jab at Bush? A foreign power is invading, and they went after the U.S.'s leader and his family. It's nothing besides the logical progression of the story. Besides, they never actually said anyone died.