Days of Future Past "Only have one more new character" in sequel says Vaughn

[chaseter]

In X-1, it was an ensemble movie, Wolvie had minor lead protagonist time.

The first movie was certainly the most balanced of the series.

It definitely was and X2 is about Wolverine and his dark past with Stryker so obviously he has more screen time in that movie...which is also fine. In X3, the movie was about Phoenix but for some reason it was also about Wolverine. That fault lies with those two awful writers Penn and Kinberg and Fox for rushing everything.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

It definitely was and X2 is about Wolverine and his dark past with Stryker so obviously he has more screen time in that movie...which is also fine. In X3, the movie was about Phoenix but for some reason it was also about Wolverine. That fault lies with those two awful writers Penn and Kinberg and Fox for rushing everything.

The movie wasn't about Wolverine. The movie was about Charles and Erik's concept of power with Jean serving as the catalyst to that argument's culmination.

Wolverine was an X-Man. So was Storm, and Iceman, and Kitty, and Colossus......

I think the reason most purists don't like Wolverine's role in the film is because they felt it belonged to Cyclops. For non-purists it was just fine. Not to mention, Jean was capable of killing anyone and only Logan's adamantium allowed him to reach the top of the hill in one piece to kill her.

Bad writing? No way.

 

[chaseter]

They shoe horned him into the plot by giving him what should have been Cyclops' role. Wolverine finds Jean, Wolverine was the team leader, Wolverine went after Jean in the forest, Wolverine saves everyone by stopping Jean. He wasn't part of the plot but they for some reason decided to make the movie about him. He had more screen time than Jean and Xavier and I would even bet more than Magneto (I would need to actually watch the movie again which I am not going to do).

Someone said it best on here, the movie should have been called "Wolverine and His Amazing Friends".

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

They shoe horned him into the plot by giving him what should have been Cyclops' role. Wolverine finds Jean, Wolverine was the team leader, Wolverine went after Jean in the forest, Wolverine saves everyone by stopping Jean. He wasn't part of the plot but they for some reason decided to make the movie about him. He had more screen time than Jean and Xavier and I would even bet more than Magneto (I would need to actually watch the movie again which I am not going to do).

Someone said it best on here, the movie should have been called "Wolverine and His Amazing Friends".

Again, to mainstream audiences, having Hugh Jackman be the protagonist of the latest X-Men film is ALOT more viable than having Jimmy Marsden carry the film.

Again, Jimmy Marsden. No way.

Still an X-Men movie though. Definitely not a Wolverine movie.

 

[chaseter]

But that doesn't make my point incorrect. Wolverine Origins only made 179 domestic so obviously Hugh Jackman as Wolverine isn't the grand money maker that everyone claimed. Yes he is a big part of it but it's pretty obvious that you can't throw Wolverine into any X-Men movie and it become a goose that can lay golden eggs. There are many other factors at play. X3 had a 67% drop off it's second weekend...which is awful.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

But that doesn't make my point incorrect. Wolverine Origins only made 179 domestic so obviously Hugh Jackman as Wolverine isn't the grand money maker that everyone claimed. Yes he is a big part of it but it's pretty obvious that you can't throw Wolverine into any X-Men movie and it become a goose that can lay golden eggs. There are many other factors at play. X3 had a 67% drop off it's second weekend...which is awful.

$180 Domestic is a successful Domestic gross for a film that cost $140 - $150 Million. You also have to take into account that Origins opened at $85 Million which shows great anticipation and interest in the film to the studio's eyes (even after the fan-hated X3).

Jackman's a superstar. His presence alone made Origins a success. The story was crap. But Jackman was Jackman.

 

[chaseter]

Wolverine had a 69% drop it's second weekend. It may have opened with 85 million but its second weekend it only made $26 million. First Class made $24 million its second weekend.


What does that tell you?

$179 million domestic take is an alright number. Jackman is more loved than Christian Bale or Tobey Maguire but for some reason Batman and Spider-Man make double and triple that domestic. Why? It's because Hugh Jackman, Tobey Maguire, and Christian Bale aren't the only factors involved in their movie's success. Origins showed that you can't sprinkle glitter on a turd and call it an X-Men movie if you have Hugh Jackman as Wolverine doing the sprinkling.

 

[Majik1387]

That it failed harder than Green Lantern is failing now.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

Wolverine had a 69% drop it's second weekend. It may have opened with 85 million but its second weekend it only made $26 million. First Class made $24 million its second weekend.


What does that tell you?

$179 million domestic take is an alright number. Jackman is more loved than Christian Bale or Tobey Maguire but for some reason Batman and Spider-Man make double and triple that domestic. Why? It's because Hugh Jackman, Tobey Maguire, and Christian Bale aren't the only factors involved in their movie's success. Origins showed that you can't sprinkle glitter on a turd and call it an X-Men movie if you have Hugh Jackman as Wolverine doing the sprinkling.

I agree with the need for both a good story and a superstar to make the big money.

But I still don't agree with the comics fans on X3's epic failure of not having Jimmy Marsden as the star of the picture. No producer in his right mind would choose Marsden over Jackman, not to mention to the GA the change of roles for those two characters didn't really hurt the plot all that much.

Everyone I know that's seen X3 yet doesn't read comics, loved the grand finale with Wolverine executing Jean. So did I, and I read comic books

 

[chaseter]

No I didn't say that Wolverine being the star and not Cyclops was the reason for it doing bad at the box office. X3 did pretty good at the box office because it was a highly anticipated sequel to X2. People were talking in here about how they felt about Wolverine being the major player in all these movies and I merely commented on how the script writers went overboard with it in X3. I also kept hearing on here that the reason why First Class wasn't doing amazingly at the box office was because Hugh Jackman wasn't the start of it. Well his solo movie proves that point wrong. He is a box office draw but he is merely only a piece of the puzzle...he isn't the whole damn puzzle. And X3 proves that if you shoe horn him into the main plot then quality suffers.

 

[Majik1387]

It wasn't a matter of choosing Marsden over Jackman or vice versa. Most comic fans who understand the industry know that Wolverine was always going to have a big role, but X3 was clearly meant for Cyclops. I do think a good amount of Wolvie's scenes were meant for him, but to be shared with Cyke, not just solo. The whole Brotherhood in the woods scene? Definitely was supposed to be Wolvie heavy with Cyclops there.
Sure some comic fans would have felt Wolvie would have been taking the spotlight from him(and in a way he would have), but for a so-called "team" movie, it felt more Wolverine centric than Origins did.

 

[chaseter]

Just think about the main plot of X3. It doesn't involve Wolverine. Yet, they put him in every single important scene, important moment, and the climax of the movie. I like Wolverine but they made X3 more about him and his struggle than Jean and her struggle and she was the main plot device.

 

[X-Maniac]

They shoe horned him into the plot by giving him what should have been Cyclops' role. Wolverine finds Jean, Wolverine was the team leader, Wolverine went after Jean in the forest, Wolverine saves everyone by stopping Jean. He wasn't part of the plot but they for some reason decided to make the movie about him. He had more screen time than Jean and Xavier and I would even bet more than Magneto (I would need to actually watch the movie again which I am not going to do).

Someone said it best on here, the movie should have been called "Wolverine and His Amazing Friends".

You're right that he dominated X3. Sometimes it felt fine and unnoticeable because he was still acting like Wolverine (like the fight near the Brotherhood camp), but a couple of times it felt wrong (most notably when he was sobbing next to Xavier's empty wheelchair).

I'm fine with the final sequence of X3 in which he approaches and then kills Jean as he has twice clawed Phoenix to death in the comic books and, to be honest, it seemed like a logical, dramatic conclusion.

I've thought about alternative ideas and they don't really work. We already saw Cyclops blasting at her in the dam in X2 so he couldn't be the one to take her down, and we weren't going to get the comic version where she switches on an alien ray-gun on the moon and zaps herself. Plus, a self-sacrifice would seem like a repeat of the end of X2.

The only other option would be her blasting off into space and giving a final voiceover about evolving into a higher being, which was what Michael Dougherty said they had envisaged for the unmade Singer version of X3. That would work well too, I think.

 

[Majik1387]

The whole death of Jean was handled piss poorly. I have yet to see anyone saying Cyclops should have been the one to have killed her, not once. All I've seen and agree with is that he should have been the one at the end with Jean, not Wolvie. I was actually honestly truly fine with Wolvie killing Jean, it's what I would have had happen, I just would have treated it with dignity and respect as a film maker, not just A.D.D. it.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

I wanted Cyclops to be in the final scene with Jean. I wanted him to be the one to take her out. And I dont hate X3, that scene as is is one of my favorites in the series, and I never saw these movies as Wolverine and Friends.

I'd have had the same scene, but with Cyclops. Take out the demolecularization, cuz I didn't like that. I do like how her telekinetic force was so strong it was destructive. And id have her trying to shoo Cyclops away, and even so powerfully his clothes tear, just like Wolverine. And then when he fights thru it to try to save the woman he loves, id have him finally remove his visor, giving her a full dose of his blasts, killing her. That's how id have done it.

I can understand giving Wolverine the lions share of screen time. But Wolverine giving inspirational speeches certainly took me out of the element. They should have either given the inspirational speeches to Cyclops, or kept the original version of him trying to tell the kids they weren't ready.

Obviously I wouldn't have killed Cyclops. I dont know what id do to showcase her danger, but not kill him. He could be taken out of action, and come back at the end, while Logan is fighting for Jean in the meantime.

Why it still worked for me:

-Jean's love of Scott is still showcased by the fact that the mention of Scott brings real Jean back. She wants to die because of what she did to him. The Jean / Scott love is still the motivation for what's left of her good side.

-Wolverine would fight for, and kill, Jean. It wasnt out of character. The fight in the woods reminds me of the part in the comic story where he goes all berserker in the underground tunnels trying to get to Jean.


-Jean never returns Logan's love. It plays off of her love for Scott being her motivation. Logan loves her but she never returns it.

I think the Phoenix Saga was bastardized by killing off Scott, but everything else works for me. Except the actual demolecularization powers. I thought that could have been done better.

And I gotta say, I certainly like what we got a lot better than Jean flying off into space. Sorry Singer, your X-Men movies have all been near perfection, but I dont want space anywhere near my movies, nor do I want my characters turning into space traversing entities.

 

[X Knight]

personally, I'm tired of Jackman as Wolverine.

I want short, hairy Wolverine.....lol

so, the longer the X-films go without featuring Jackman as Wolverine, the happier I'll be!!

 

[Angamb]

me too.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

personally, I'm tired of Jackman as Wolverine.

I want short, hairy Wolverine.....lol

so, the longer the X-films go without featuring Jackman as Wolverine, the happier I'll be!!

me too.

I'll never understand this mentality. The image of Jackman's Wolverine in the bar in Alberta during the beginning of X1, was pretty much the defining moment in the genre when you as a viewer understood that comic book adaptations could be serious and realistic.

The notion that we should have a 5'3" Native American that looks like the Looney Tunes Tazmanian Devil instead of Hugh Jackman in the title role is just hilarious to me (Chris Claremont wanted Bob Hoskins )

There are things that work on the page and there are things that don't. The last thing I want is a cinematic Wolverine shorter than Tom Cruise.

Same goes for the costume argument. No, I don't want Hugh Jackman running around Japan wearing his orange/tan costume. I love that costume on the page, but never wanna see it onscreen.

 

[BMM]

I agree with the need for both a good story and a superstar to make the big money.

But I still don't agree with the comics fans on X3's epic failure of not having Jimmy Marsden as the star of the picture. No producer in his right mind would choose Marsden over Jackman, not to mention to the GA the change of roles for those two characters didn't really hurt the plot all that much.

Everyone I know that's seen X3 yet doesn't read comics, loved the grand finale with Wolverine executing Jean. So did I, and I read comic books

Since when does not wanting Cyclops killed off in the first act of X-Men 3 mean people want him to be the star of the movie?

 

[Majik1387]

Because people are extremist around here.

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

Since when does not wanting Cyclops killed off in the first act of X-Men 3 mean people want him to be the star of the movie?

Read through the last few pages - the argument being that Wolverine robbed Cyclops of his role in the picture.

"Actual scenes featuring Logan are being called Cyclops scenes, scenes clearly written for Logan required Cyclops, etc..."

By killing Cyclops, the writers made Wolverine responsible for putting an end to Jean's menace. This works better (not for the fans of course) because Logan's adamantium becomes necessary in order to kill her. It also allows the character to grow by being given such a great responsibility, which also adds more weight to his infatuation with her. Logan's arc with the X-Men comes full circle when Xavier smiles at him before exploding. He realizes the once loner rebel will be the man who will save the others by killing Jean. That was a major win in my eyes regarding the character's development throughout the series.

He began isolated and selfish and ended up protecting his new "family" from the family member he cared about the most.

To the comics fans the aforementioned writing was all blasphemy and "awful" storytelling. It belonged to Cyclops and only Cyclops because Logan is not allowed to grow or develop (even though during the much loved X1 and X2 he was already growing and developing ). To the GA, it was just fine.

X3 really got a raw deal from the fans.

 

[Majik1387]

No, it got the deal it offered, just look at the box office.

Yes, it made it's budget back plus more, but it was still significantly less than X1 and X2, and that's world wide. They made more money back with their better X-Men movies than the ones that the minority of fans are trying to defend.

 

[X Knight]

I'll never understand this mentality. The image of Jackman's Wolverine in the bar in Alberta during the beginning of X1, was pretty much the defining moment in the genre when you as a viewer understood that comic book adaptations could be serious and realistic.

The notion that we should have a 5'3" Native American that looks like the Looney Tunes Tazmanian Devil instead of Hugh Jackman in the title role is just hilarious to me (Chris Claremont wanted Bob Hoskins )

There are things that work on the page and there are things that don't. The last thing I want is a cinematic Wolverine shorter than Tom Cruise.

Same goes for the costume argument. No, I don't want Hugh Jackman running around Japan wearing his orange/tan costume. I love that costume on the page, but never wanna see it onscreen.

are you saying that a short actor couldn't have portrayed Wolverine realistically on screen?

there ARE short guys in the world.........

does he have to be exactly 5'3"? No. of course not. He could be 5'6" or 5'8" and surrounded by taller actors.

at the very least, he didn't have to be 6'3". Heck, he's taller than the new Superman....lol

 

[Alexei Belyakov]

are you saying that a short actor couldn't have portrayed Wolverine realistically on screen?

there ARE short guys in the world.........

does he have to be exactly 5'3"? No. of course not. He could be 5'6" or 5'8" and surrounded by taller actors.

at the very least, he didn't have to be 6'3". Heck, he's taller than the new Superman....lol

Sure, there's lots of short badasses in film (Mel Gibson, Sly Stallone, Tom Hardy) but what's the point? Why trade the commanding and near-perfect Hugh Jackman for someone else just to honor the character's height from the books?

The character's height doesn't define him. Nor does his costume.

 

[Majik1387]

Because he's far from near-perfect. I was happy with him in X1, wasn't a fan of him in X2, but I got over it because the movie was good enough, X3 is bet left forgotten, Wolverine Origins doesn't exist in my mind, and his cameo was the worst in First Class.