First Avenger "Over There"....The USO plot point thread

[roach]

hmm. well. this is a battle of epic proportions. well snipers were prevalant in a lot of WW2 battlefields and we have no idea about the writing since none of us have seen a script or anything. on the other hand JJ did say Cap would be onstage singing and dancing with chorus girls. that would suck. that is all. lol

I agree with this statement

 

[Dragon]

hmm. well. this is a battle of epic proportions. well snipers were prevalant in a lot of WW2 battlefields and we have no idea about the writing since none of us have seen a script or anything. on the other hand JJ did say Cap would be onstage singing and dancing with chorus girls. that would suck. that is all. lol

As far as snipers on the battlefield; Cap is still a much harder target there,

1. His attacks are pretty much always covert.
2. He's moving, pretty damned fast, and surrounded by Nazi soldiers. Thus making it tough for a sniper to get a clear shot.

On stage, he's only surrounded by chorus girls, not moving defensively and not focused on fighting.

Granted, I'm sure this won't be addressed in the film at all, but that in and of itself is a problem.

 

[Webhead2006]

sure this whole uso storyline and plot could go either way being a good thing or a bad thing. its just far to early to know since filming hasnt even started up on the film yet. As for steve being captain america on stage. i doubt the public attending the uso will know steve is cap and that he is a super solider. They will probably make it seem he is just an entertainer which could be his cover during the whole USO aspect to the film. As for the whole USO costume/and what he comes up with after he goes awol from the uso should be interesting to see how it turns out. Now i too dont mind for some minor details to make certain things seem a bit more realistic and all that. and cotumes for superheroes always tend to get certain little tweaks here and there for film adaptions. So i am used to some change. just in the end hopefully they end up being more faithful to the source materials with jsut minor changes to them like the raimi spider-man movies suit was. As for the shield i could see the uso show going with the triangle shield and they could easily jsut say that is a simple steel made shield that is durable but not that strong and painted like a flag. Then after he goes awol he probably returns and becomes fully sanctioned by the govt for missions/ie with the invaders. Then at this point we will probably be going through a few yrs period of missions. So if this is what happens the govt could end up designing/giving steve the round should that is industructible and all that. And the govt issues him a more defined outfit styled off of miltiary gab but keeps the whole us flag aspects. Hopefully it does all work out in the end.

 

[Son of Coul]

I know. Johnston's followers need to open themselves up to understanding the difference between good and bad writing.

Almost as bad writing as having Cap wear the costume just 'cuz.

 

[roach]

Almost as bad writing as having Cap wear the costume just 'cuz.

we are not saying put him int the costume just 'cuz...we are saying the reason from the comics was/is good enough for the movie and would make this USO theme non existant

 

[Infinity9999x]

I know. Johnston's followers need to open themselves up to understanding the difference between good and bad writing.

...Why don't we wait until we can either read the script or see the movie before we start judging the writing? It's kind of hard to judge writing we haven't even seen.

 

[Dragon]

...Why don't we wait until we can either read the script or see the movie before we start judging the writing? It's kind of hard to judge writing we haven't even seen.

We have seen it. The USO concept is laid out pretty clearly by Johnston. Once you need to put Steve onstage sjnging and dancing only to get a costume, this is the equivalent to Peter Parker getting his costume because an army of spiders spun it for him overnight on orders from the Great Spider-God.
NOT NEEDED.

 

[roach]

no amount of waiting and seeing will make me ever think that Cap singing and dancing onstage will ever be a good idea

 

[TikkiEXX]

We have seen it. The USO concept is laid out pretty clearly by Johnston. Once you need to put Steve onstage sjnging and dancing only to get a costume, this is the equivalent to Peter Parker getting his costume because an army of spiders spun it for him overnight on orders from the Great Spider-God.
NOT NEEDED.

what? weve seen the script? his couple of paragraphs about the USO was the whole movie? if thats what ends up on screen that sucks. but noone has seen a script. im not sure if its even complete.

 

[Son of Coul]

We really don't know that Cap will be literally singing and dancing, jovially no less, just by the comment he made while giving a very non-indepth description of the plot point. Rourke just said in an interview that his character's father invented the original Iron Man armor when he clearly meant the arc reactor. I **** things up too. I've said it several times- I think it'll be a scene with rockettes-style patriotic girls onstage while Cap awkwardly fumbles around in his costume played for laughs. Maybe I'm wrong, but consider that could be the case, especially considering how long ago he said it and how much these movies are rewritten.

 

[roach]

wishful thinking

 

[TikkiEXX]

considering the script seems to be getting tweaked by Whedon, looks like thats happening already. things are still in flux. and i honestly think it was an offhand comment about the dancing but maybe it wasnt. wont know for sure until...someone sees the script. seems to be a recurring theme. haha. and even then it could still and probably will change.

 

[roach]

the absense of evidence does not mean the evidence of absense

 

[Webhead2006]

well we all will just have to see if more details will come up from the uso plotline. plus we dont really know how long/many scenes there could be for this too. Hopefully it does all work out for the best.

 

[Timstuff]

I think that the USO plot point is a great idea. It adds an emotional conflict for Steve to overcome, and good storytelling is about conflict. Steve's dream was to serve in the armed forces, and when a miracle of science finally gave him the opportunity to, it's taken away from him. They put him in a monkey suit and shove him out on a stage, because he's too valuable to put into actual combat. Can you imagine the emotions they could get from the viewer when they show Steve Rogers in his dressing room, staring into the mirror at himself wearing his kitschy looking stage getup (probably complete with blue sequins instead of armored scales)?

The story can't just be as simple as "Steve Rogers gets pumped full of SSS, gets to wear a heroic costume, and then kicks the Third Reich's ass," because that's not a story at all. Johnston's story as he's described it is a lot higher concept than that. It's not just the story of a weak person becoming empowered. That's would be like having a romantic comedy that's just about a single guy who gets a new girlfriend. That would be a string of events, not a story, and that was one of my biggest concerns about this project initially (which fortunately, Johnston is doing his best to alleviate). A story would be a borderline-OCD bachelor meets a girl he likes, but it tuns out that she's got an opposite personality from his, loving things for being erratic and unpredictable. He gives up on her, but then realizes that the things he thought he hated about her, he now misses, because she had that was missing in his life. Now you've got a story going.

Similarly, instead of Captain America just being about a powerless person getting power, it needs complications in that part of the narrative. Steve wants to fight in the war, but he can't because he's too weak. Through his own determination and some help from science, he becomes the greatest soldier the world has ever seen, but instead of sending him into battle, where he belongs, they turn him into a mascot. He almost got everything he wanted, but ends up with none of it, and finally has to make some tough decisions about how badly he wants to pursue his destiny.

You can't just introduce powers to Steve Rogers and then jump into a completely different story, because then Cap's origins just become exposition, and ultimately he's just filling the role in a story that could be told about any hero unless his origin plays an important part in the main plot. Otherwise, even if the plot is good, Cap's origins at the beginning don't feel so much like a part of the story so much as just a long explanation for why our main character has super powers. In Johnston's story, it HAS to be about Steve Rogers, because it's not just a world war 2 movie where the main character is a superhuman.

Going back to my RomCom analogy, it's the difference between just telling us that a guy got a girlfriend, and telling us a story about a guy who got a girlfriend.

 

[Turtles]

the absense of evidence does not mean the evidence of absense[/QUOTE=roach;18262190]

That works both ways, you know? You think the USO idea can be bad because there is no concrete evidence it isn't. I think the USO idea can be good because there is no concrete evidence it isn't.

And don't even mention the dancing bit again. Until you can prove that that is to be taken literally, and it's not just a product of Johnston using the wrong words in an interview to describe the USO idea, it's not proof of anything.

If we get a trailer with Cap singing and dancing in it, and we see the movie and there is no point to it, then I'll concede that you were right. Until then, I'll believe there is a chance the USO idea is not as bad as it sounds.

Can you name a single movie where the costume was the reason the movie failed?[/QUOTE=roach;18262190]

Can you name a single movie were the costume was the reason the movie succeeded? Can you name one that failed because the costume wasn't accurate enough, or because too much time was taken to explain why the character wore it?

I think you need to face facts, Roach. The accuracy, and even the presence of, costumes doesn't play a large part in a comic book movie's success or failure. It just doesn't.

Here's proof:

Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. They are some of the most successful comic book movies to date (money-wise, TDK is the most successful comic book movie to date), and yet Batman's costume is not considered to be comic book accurate. Many Batman fans hate it.

X-Men 1-3. The first two are quite popular, and yet the none of the characters wear their traditional costumes. You can argue they don't wear a costume at all, but a uniform. And while the third one is considered a failure, it is usually considered a failure for reasons other than the character's costumes.

Fantastic Four 1-2. The costumes for the FF are almost exactly like they are in the comics, yet neither of the movies are considered very good.

Daredevil: The costume is quite accurate, but the movie is not considered to be very good (though, I have heard some people say that the director's cut is decent). I hear there are even rumors of a reboot.

Spider-Man 1-3. One of the most popular franchises, with some of the most accurate costumes. But, as with X-men, the third is still considered something of a failure.

Super Man Returns: The costume is comics-accurate (still a blue body suit with red underwear, boots, cape, and superman symbol), and yet the movie was a failure.

See? Accurate costumes, or lack thereof, don't make or break a movie. They are icing on the cake at best. Casting, plot, and character use (or misuse), is what makes or breaks a movie.

Well, of course the accuracy of costumes is important to die hard comic book fans, but if they really would consider a good movie a failure just because a character's costume wasn't the right shade of blue, or a tiny detail was left out or altered.....well, they've got problems.

EDIT: Sorry nothing is quoted, but the site is being a pain in the ass. Everytime I try to fix crap and preview things to make sure they work, it keeps saying I have less than three characters in my message and I can't. Does that look like less than 3 characters to you?!

 

[Turtles]

Trying to take up a whole page with my responses t:t:t:

Neither I nor anyone else criticizing this plot point has said we know THE ENTIRE MOVIE based on it. I have said that this idea is crap and the use of it suggests that Johnston's vision for the overall film is suspect.

You know Johnston's overall vision is suspect based on the USO idea? And yet you claim not to make any assumptions about the entire quality of the film based solely on the USO idea. Hate to burst your bubble, but saying the directors overall vision is suspect is the same thing as saying the whole movie itself is suspect. Because, the directors vision IS the entire movie. It's the script, it's the actors, it's the style.

You can't pick and choose what the director's vision is or is not. You can't attribute the USO idea to Johnston and say his entire vision is suspect, and turn around and like another part of the movie and say "well, that wasn't part of his overall vision for the film so it's good."

Kind of. You see, if he's focused on a song and dance routine, it's unlikely that he'll be aware of a sniper aiming at a distance. On the battlefield, he is prepared for gunfire. He's focused and ready. In fact, Cap was "assasinated" a few years back under those circumstances.

Are you talking about Civil War? If so, then I recall Cap actually noticing the shooter (was there a gun sight, I don't remember? It's been a while since I read the comic) BEFORE he was shot. He put himself in the path of the bullet to save someone else. That sorta defeats your theory that he wouldn't notice a sniper, now doesn't it?

Also, he was wearing his costume at the time he shot and killed. That pretty much defeats your theory that his costume would protect him from anything on the battlefield. Sure, his shield would offer added protection......but not when he throws it away. And throwing it is something he does a lot, isn't it?


It would be harder for him to see a single assassin, especially a sniper. On the battlefield, a platoon of Nazi soldiers is more obvious.

A sniper is more easy to spot on the battlefield why?

And if you think he won't spot a sniper in a USO show because he's too busy dancing then what makes you think he'd spot a sniper when he's busy fighting? Are you going to tell me that Captain America is so pathetic he loses his ability to multitask only when he's dancing?

And, last I checked, Cap didn't spend the entire time running around like Quicksilver, so it wouldn't be impossible for a sniper to get a shot off.

Well he spent decades on the battlefield and survived. He was "killed" by a sniper. You do the math.

Actually, if his hands weren't cuffed behind his back, and Sharon Carter didn't come up to him and finish the job at close range, the sniper probably would not have "killed" him.

This is a very telling statement.

So you
1. Don't believe Johnston himself.
2. Obviously think it's a bad idea if you're denying the validity of and simply refuse to accept Johnston's own words.

I believe Johnston, I just take anything he says with a grain of salt at this stage in the game. Directors say stuff in interviews all the time, but what they mean isn't always clear, and do to rewrites and such, sometimes it turns out to be downright wrong.

Example: I believe there was a time that Jon Favreau said we would never see the suitcase armor in an Iron Man movie. But, surprise-surprise, we get the suitcase armor in IM2. Did Jon lie when he said we would never see it? Or did he just say that because he hadn't yet figured out a way to do it realistically, and he didn't want to get people's hopes up?

You also have to remember that, sometimes, directors outright lie to keep parts of their movie secret. Didn't Michael Bay come out and say that Megatron wasn't coming back to life in Transformers 2?

Oh- you mean like it protected the 416,000 soldiers who died in WWII?

Cap was assassinated in his PROTECTIVE costume. End of story.


But in my explanation, no time is spent on explaining WHY he's in a costume, and more on what happens when he's in it.

The USO angle has alot of time spent focused on a non-compelling concept.

You don't even know how much time the USO is going to take up. Maybe it's five minutes long?

Because it attempts to explain the obvious. Thus it adds nothing.

It might be there to explain the obvious, but at the same time it might be there to explain other things. For that reason, it would add a lot to the movie.

Hell, maybe all your predictions come true and, as Cap is dancing up on stage, he's attacked by an assassin. Somebody gets killed while he's fighting the assassin off. But then that winds up being part of the reason he goes AWOL (along with his friends being in danger). He realizes his presence puts the people around him in danger, and he doesn't want to be responsible for another innocent person's death, so he goes to the battlefield where he thinks he can do the most good.

If something like that were the case, then the USO idea would add a lot to the movie.

So, you're telling me not to go by Johnston's own words- and yet you, without knowing a damned thing about me make an assumption about what I want to happen. But remember- when you assume you make an ass of yourself.

I'm telling you to take Johnston's words with a grain of salt, because how often do directors give you a play by play of what's going to happen in their movies before their movies are even casted yet? They give you general details, broad outlines, all of which are subject to change.

If, during post production, Johnston comes out and says "Oh, yeah, Cap is up on the stage doing the Can-Can in three scenes." or Chris Evans says "Yeah, I dance at several points in the film. I had a dance instructor on set that showed me how to do all the moves." then you should be worried.

Clearly it is to YOU, since you're spending so much time denying it. If you were really cool with the idea you'd be trumpeting Johnston's words.

What words? The whole two paragraphs we got? "Trumpeting" his words at this point would be like reading just the summary on the back of a book, and then telling everyone how much you loved that book. You might not love it when you actually read the whole thing.

I won't say whether or not the idea IS good, or it IS bad, but I will say whether or not it CAN be good, or it CAN be bad.

 

[Dragon]

what? weve seen the script? his couple of paragraphs about the USO was the whole movie? if thats what ends up on screen that sucks. but noone has seen a script. im not sure if its even complete.

So I guess some of you are not only fans of bad writing, you're a fan of bad reading. I said nothing about the script or the entire movie. This thread is to discuss the USO plot point- which is what I'm talking about. I am saying however, that if Johnston would include such cheeziness, and based on his previous films, his skill at making this film is suspect.

We really don't know that Cap will be literally singing and dancing, jovially no less, just by the comment he made while giving a very non-indepth description of the plot point. Rourke just said in an interview that his character's father invented the original Iron Man armor when he clearly meant the arc reactor. I **** things up too. I've said it several times- I think it'll be a scene with rockettes-style patriotic girls onstage while Cap awkwardly fumbles around in his costume played for laughs. Maybe I'm wrong, but consider that could be the case, especially considering how long ago he said it and how much these movies are rewritten.

Mickey Rourke is not the director, so it's okay if he doesn't have a full grasp of the story. And Cap fumbling around on stage will suck just as much as his doing a Fred Astire/ George Cohan-esque performance. HE SHOULDN'T BE ONSTAGE AT ALL. Screentime/money should not be devoted to this. Not when there are so many important plot points to focus time and money on in telling Cap's story.

 

[Dragon]

The story can't just be as simple as "Steve Rogers gets pumped full of SSS, gets to wear a heroic costume, and then kicks the Third Reich's ass,"

No one is suggesting that it be that simple. But what you're talking about is the wrong approach to his sotry.

Steve needs to have comflict both within and without. And conflict about his costume doesn't touch upon it. It needs to be more complwx.

The story should begin focusing on Steve growing up frail. That lacking physical strength, he develops a strong mind and will to survive. It would be that strong will that prevents him from dying as a child of illness. Then as he goes out he uses his mind to survive on the streets. In sports for example, while he can't play them well, he is a clever strategist and works out ways for his team to win. This also helps him develop into a good leader. He can outsmart the local bullies and so forth.

It's his mind that helps him into the super soldier program. That while most of the army brass might want the super soldiers to be obedient automatons, some including the professor who develops the serum want them to be intelligent.

Then, after Steve is empowered, he has to deal with butting heads with his superiors. In that they want him to be a heartless killing machine, equal with the Red Skull. And this is not Steve.

For example, he can be given a mission to destory a Nazi military post. He only has a certain amount of time to complete the mission. But Cap discovers that there are captives on the post to be shipped to a concentration camp. Cap wants to save them, but because this would slow him down, his superiors say no. So he has to break from their plans and strategize the way to save these prople and complete his mission. And though he's successful, this creates tension between him and his bosses, not only for his defiance, but in showing that he can outthink them.

And Steve would have an internal struggle in that he feels that by becoming this masked, scientifically enhanced symbol. he's losing his own identity. He's loved by millions, but not for who he really is. Women are throwing themselves at him- something he's never experienced, but he longs for a real connection with one. This is where the relationship with Peggy Carter develops. She's not impressed with his image. Only when he reveals the real Steve Rogers to her does she connect with him.

Then there's his place as a leader. Initially, the other soldiers would be unhappy with following this costumed glamour boy into combat. But just as he became a leader to his friends in his old neighborhood, he becomes one to the soldiers.

There needs to be a good relationship with Bucky. Not merely his being a sidekick- but a reason why Cap allows him to go into batle with him.

The real social ills of American society at that time also need to be addressed. Things like racism, including on the battlefield, and the interment of Japanese US citizens.

So, there is plenty of conflict and character development within Cap's story without placing him anywhere near a USO stage.

 

[roach]

the absense of evidence does not mean the evidence of absense[/QUOTE=roach;18262190]

this is a joke from the Boondocks as he was making fun of the war in Iraq...wasnt meant to take serios

And don't even mention the dancing bit again. Until you can prove that that is to be taken literally, and it's not just a product of Johnston using the wrong words in an interview to describe the USO idea, it's not proof of anything.

So Johnson is inept that he cant convey thoughts in an interview and we cant trust him. At this point why even discuss anything since everything he has said cant be trusted. Is it gonna be set in WW2??? Or are we picking and choosing what we want to believe???

Can you name a single movie where the costume was the reason the movie failed?[/QUOTE=roach;18262190]

Can you name a single movie were the costume was the reason the movie succeeded? Can you name one that failed because the costume wasn't accurate enough, or because too much time was taken to explain why the character wore it?

I think you need to face facts, Roach. The accuracy, and even the presence of, costumes doesn't play a large part in a comic book movie's success or failure. It just doesn't.

Here's proof:

Batman Begins and The Dark Knight. They are some of the most successful comic book movies to date (money-wise, TDK is the most successful comic book movie to date), and yet Batman's costume is not considered to be comic book accurate. Many Batman fans hate it.

X-Men 1-3. The first two are quite popular, and yet the none of the characters wear their traditional costumes. You can argue they don't wear a costume at all, but a uniform. And while the third one is considered a failure, it is usually considered a failure for reasons other than the character's costumes.

Fantastic Four 1-2. The costumes for the FF are almost exactly like they are in the comics, yet neither of the movies are considered very good.

Daredevil: The costume is quite accurate, but the movie is not considered to be very good (though, I have heard some people say that the director's cut is decent). I hear there are even rumors of a reboot.
DC is awesome and i like it beter than TDK

Spider-Man 1-3. One of the most popular franchises, with some of the most accurate costumes. But, as with X-men, the third is still considered something of a failure.

Super Man Returns: The costume is comics-accurate (still a blue body suit with red underwear, boots, cape, and superman symbol), and yet the movie was a failure.

See? Accurate costumes, or lack thereof, don't make or break a movie. They are icing on the cake at best. Casting, plot, and character use (or misuse), is what makes or breaks a movie.

Well, of course the accuracy of costumes is important to die hard comic book fans, but if they really would consider a good movie a failure just because a character's costume wasn't the right shade of blue, or a tiny detail was left out or altered.....well, they've got problems.

EDIT: Sorry nothing is quoted, but the site is being a pain in the ass. Everytime I try to fix crap and preview things to make sure they work, it keeps saying I have less than three characters in my message and I can't. Does that look like less than 3 characters to you?!

So if the costume has no basis on the BO of a movie why not do the comics costume especially on someone as Iconic as Cap?

 

[Infinity9999x]

We have seen it. The USO concept is laid out pretty clearly by Johnston. Once you need to put Steve onstage sjnging and dancing only to get a costume, this is the equivalent to Peter Parker getting his costume because an army of spiders spun it for him overnight on orders from the Great Spider-God.
NOT NEEDED.

No, no you haven't, unless you've seen the movie somehow, you have not seen what is actually written and will be shown to us in the movie. You only have a basic idea, nothing more. I did the same thing with TDK. When I heard that Harvey wasn't going to be scarred in a courtroom and I was up in arms about it. I had a list of reasons why I thought him getting his face burned by gasoline was a dumb idea compared to how you could do it in the comics.

But then I saw the movie, and it worked.

And why do you think this is only to get a costume? The way he talked about it, it seemed to me to be more about Steve's frustration of not getting to fight, and the army using him as an advertising tool (which oddly enough, is just what the Cap comics were used as).

 

[roach]

No, no you haven't, unless you've seen the movie somehow, you have not seen what is actually written and will be shown to us in the movie. You only have a basic idea, nothing more. I did the same thing with TDK. When I heard that Harvey wasn't going to be scarred in a courtroom and I was up in arms about it. I had a list of reasons why I thought him getting his face burned by gasoline was a dumb idea compared to how you could do it in the comics.

But then I saw the movie, and it worked.

And why do you think this is only to get a costume? The way he talked about it, it seemed to me to be more about Steve's frustration of not getting to fight, and the army using him as an advertising tool (which oddly enough, is just what the Cap comics were used as).

The director mentioned that the USO theme is introduced as a way to explain the costume.

 

[roach]

They've added a new wrinkle to the classic mythology to explain why a scientifically enhanced super-soldier would venture out in the WWII battlefields in a costume that leans a bit heavy on the old Betsy Ross imagery.
"The costume is a flag, but the way we're getting around that is we have Steve Rogers forced into the USO circuit. After he's made into this super-soldier, they decide they can't send him into combat and risk him getting killed. He's the only one and they can't make more. So they say, 'You're going to be in this USO show' and they give him a flag suit. He can't wait to get out of it."

So he's up on stage doing songs and dances with chorus girls and he can't wait to get out and really fight. When he does go AWOL, he covers up the suit but then, after a few things happen, he realizes that this uniform allows him to lead. By then, he's become a star in the public mind and a symbol. The guys get behind him because he embodies something special."

There will be more than one costume in the film, too.

In the first USO sequences, the frustrated patriot will be wearing a version that is closer to the classic Jack Kirby-designed costume, but then later as the super-soldier hits the war zone he will be wearing a sturdier, more muted version that he makes himself that is more like battle togs. The stripes across his mid-section, for instance, will be straps, not colored fabric.

He realizes the value of the uniform symbols but he modifies his suit and adds some armor, it will be closer to the Cpa costume in some of the comics in more recent years . . . this approach, it's the only way we could justify ever seeing him on a screen in tights, with the funny boots and everything. The government essentially puts him up there as a living comic-book character and he rips it off and then reclaims some of its imagery after he recognizes the value of it. We think it's the best way to keep the costume and explain it at the same time."

 

[roach]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/her...uso-performer-in-the-movie-director-says.html

 

[Timstuff]

No one is suggesting that it be that simple. But what you're talking about is the wrong approach to his sotry.

Steve needs to have comflict both within and without. And conflict about his costume doesn't touch upon it. It needs to be more complwx.

The story should begin focusing on Steve growing up frail. That lacking physical strength, he develops a strong mind and will to survive. It would be that strong will that prevents him from dying as a child of illness. Then as he goes out he uses his mind to survive on the streets. In sports for example, while he can't play them well, he is a clever strategist and works out ways for his team to win. This also helps him develop into a good leader. He can outsmart the local bullies and so forth.

It's his mind that helps him into the super soldier program. That while most of the army brass might want the super soldiers to be obedient automatons, some including the professor who develops the serum want them to be intelligent.

Then, after Steve is empowered, he has to deal with butting heads with his superiors. In that they want him to be a heartless killing machine, equal with the Red Skull. And this is not Steve.

For example, he can be given a mission to destory a Nazi military post. He only has a certain amount of time to complete the mission. But Cap discovers that there are captives on the post to be shipped to a concentration camp. Cap wants to save them, but because this would slow him down, his superiors say no. So he has to break from their plans and strategize the way to save these prople and complete his mission. And though he's successful, this creates tension between him and his bosses, not only for his defiance, but in showing that he can outthink them.

And Steve would have an internal struggle in that he feels that by becoming this masked, scientifically enhanced symbol. he's losing his own identity. He's loved by millions, but not for who he really is. Women are throwing themselves at him- something he's never experienced, but he longs for a real connection with one. This is where the relationship with Peggy Carter develops. She's not impressed with his image. Only when he reveals the real Steve Rogers to her does she connect with him.

Then there's his place as a leader. Initially, the other soldiers would be unhappy with following this costumed glamour boy into combat. But just as he became a leader to his friends in his old neighborhood, he becomes one to the soldiers.

There needs to be a good relationship with Bucky. Not merely his being a sidekick- but a reason why Cap allows him to go into batle with him.

The real social ills of American society at that time also need to be addressed. Things like racism, including on the battlefield, and the interment of Japanese US citizens.

So, there is plenty of conflict and character development within Cap's story without placing him anywhere near a USO stage.

The problem is, the story you just described to me doesn't have to be about Steve Rogers. It could be about any person who gets involved with the War and has to do things they don't want to. Johnston's story couldn't have been told about any character other than Steve. It's about someone chasing their dream of being able to help their country fight the war, and the obstacles he must overcome in order to do so. If it's about a character other than Steve Rogers, we don't get the emotional connection of what he had to go through to be an acceptable soldier, which means that him being turned into a USO mascot is that much less painful for for the character.

If you get rid of Steve's struggle to make it onto the battlefield in the first place, even after he gets the SSS, then suddenly Steve can be easily replaced with any character. The internal conflict has to be specific to Steve and where he came from, because if you set up a character with an origin as specific as his and then just make it be about universal themes of war and peace, then suddenly you've got just an average WW2 movie that happens to have a superhero in it.