Part VI (Spoiler Thread)

[misjuevos]

The implication is he can't beat him, because he cares about him. Just like how Luke stomps him in RotJ, because Vader's heart isn't in it anymore. He can't kill his son. He was never able to kill his son. Which is why he's on a slow death march the moment Luke is revealed to him. His big gamble is that maybe Luke will join him, but his kid rejects that.

Vader is suppose to be the coldest, baddest man in all the galaxy. He's suppose to be anger incarnate. They try to build that up with moments like him going through the town destroying people, only to chip away at it with stuff like that.

The emperor might imply this reason, but it is not why he loses. Kenobi is just better. This fight isn't like the Luke fight. He doesn't care for Kenobi he wants to beat him. but not the weak version, the Jedi master version of Kenobi. Vader just toys too much with Kenobi in this fight. Vader tries to see where Kenobi is in his power at the start of the fight. So Vader starts to turn up the power when Kenobi shows he is more powerful. Until Vader is finally outmatched again. It wasn't from feelings for Kenobi, it was from trying to fight the best version so he can prove to himself(Vader) that he is now the master. That is why the emperor remarks Vader you seem agitated. Vader is angry he can't beat this guy. The feelings remark from Palpatine is to provoke Vader and keep him in check. It seems like Vader is angry that he can't beat Kenobi and if he can't then he knows he can't beat the emperor.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You're arguing with George Lucas. Stop.

It's not "Yoda's mission." It's THE mission. The fact that you're trying to make it out to be solely Yoda's mission is HILARIOUS. Yoda and Obi-Wan were OBVIOUSLY on the same page.

You think you know everything. You don't. A quick Google search got me to that quote.

No, I'm arguing with you. As for George, he's the guy that forgot Obi-Wan had to pick up Anakin's lightsaber in RotS and had Luke make out with his sister. So stop, and engage in the argument.

Second, it's Luke's mission. Yoda, dead. Obi-Wan, dead. Yoda tries to provide Luke with the tools to decide how to handle the situation, because he's the last of the Jedi and Yoda's a whole lot wiser then Obi-Wan, without the deeply personal connection to Anakin. He knows him, but it's not the same.. Obi-Wan does not. He caught feelings. He's there for the death of Anakin. If he isn't explain his dialogue in this scene:



Luke: There's still good in him.

Obi-Wan: He's more machine now the man. Twisted and evil.

Luke: I can't do it, Ben.

Obi-Wan: You cannot escape your destiny. You must face Darth Vader again.

Luke: I can't kill my own father.

Obi-Wan: Then the Emperor has already won. You were our only hope.

How is that not Obi-Wan telling Luke to kill his papa? When Luke tells him he won't do it, he tells Luke, well that's ball game. The dark side wins, let's go home.

 

[Marvolo]

Uh...

Ahsoka: "I won't leave you again."

Obi-Wan: Leaves Anakin alive a second time because he can't bear to kill Anakin.

I mean... yeah.

"I won't leave you again." As in she won't leave him alive and as Vader. Her only choice in that scene, after Vader said she would die,, was die or kill Vader and after Ezra saves her she never makes an attempt to redeem Vader. She gave up on Anakin.

And this show is ten years before Luke's value can be put to use. Obi has 10 more years to fully give up on Anakin which we know he does because of the OT. By the time of the OT Luke is the only one trying to redeem Vader. The only one that goes to DS2 and tries to save his father.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

The emperor might imply this reason, but it is not why he loses. Kenobi is just better. This fight isn't like the Luke fight. He doesn't care for Kenobi he wants to beat him. but not the weak version, the Jedi master version of Kenobi. Vader just toys too much with Kenobi in this fight. Vader tries to see where Kenobi is in his power at the start of the fight. So Vader starts to turn up the power when Kenobi shows he is more powerful. Until Vader is finally outmatched again. It wasn't from feelings for Kenobi, it was from trying to fight the best version so he can prove to himself(Vader) that he is now the master. That is why the emperor remarks Vader you seem agitated. Vader is angry he can't beat this guy. The feelings remark from Palpatine is to provoke Vader and keep him in check. It seems like Vader is angry that he can't beat Kenobi and if he can't then he knows he can't beat the emperor.

There is not one day from at least AotC on, that Obi-Wan is "more powerful" then Anakin. He beats Anakin in RotS because Anakin is conflicted, a novice in the dark side and because Obi-Wan trained him. This 10 years later. 10 years of Sith training. The man can pull ships from the sky. His only rivals are Sheev and Yoda. Not Obi-Wan.

And while I think the piece was poorly written, they didn't put that dialogue there for no reason. The obvious implication is no one can boogey with King Crimson. So we have to explain why he lost. It's exactly what they showed with Obi-Wan earlier in the series, except Obi-Wan ain't Vader.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It's such an interesting dynamic between the three characters, and for me makes the confrontation in this episode all the more frustrating. They want to write the show about Obi Wan discovering Anakin is alive and losing all hope in him, but you also want them to fight with Kenobi still besting Vader. Those two things are had to pull off together unless you really contrive something to prevent Obi Wan from killing Vader. Walking away might've been the worst possible option.

The obvious answer is, if you have to do this, you have Vader beat the breaks off Obi-Wan, but Obi-Wan uses his craftiness to survive. Making Vader think he's dead. The fight is only done to buy time for others. Obi-Wan knows it's a no hope situation in terms of winning, but he outsmarts his apprentice by succeeding in saving others. Just like in... STAR WARS.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

"I won't leave you again." As in she won't leave him alive and as Vader. Her only choice in that scene, after Vader said she would die,, was die or kill Vader and after Ezra saves her she never makes an attempt to redeem Vader. She gave up on Anakin.

And this show is ten years before Luke's value can be put to use. Obi has 10 more years to fully give up on Anakin which we know he does because of the OT. By the time of the OT Luke is the only one trying to redeem Vader. The only one that goes to DS2 and tries to save his father.

This is pure contrivance.

If she can't "leave him again", she's not seeing Vader. She's seeing Anakin.

If Obi-Wan now has to spend another 10 years after that realizing, "maybe we should kill Vader", that is really bad storytelling in the first place.

 

[Ninjablade]

You know how ridiculous this sounds?

Force Ghost Obi-Wan SENDS Luke to train under Yoda in Dagobah.

So he sends him to train under Yoda to kill Vader when Yoda doesn't share this desire for Luke to kill his own Father?

Nonsense. Utter nonsense.

There was ONE plan as Lucas states above. ONE plan shared by Obi-Wan and Yoda. A plan to TURN Vader via Luke.

For someone trying to die on this hill, you still haven't answered what should be an easy request:

Show me one single line or instance of Obi Wan expressing to Luke he doesn't want him to kill Vader in the entire OT. It shouldn't be hard for you and google.

 

[misjuevos]

There is not one day from at least AotC on, that Obi-Wan is "more powerful" then Anakin. He beats Anakin in RotS because Anakin is conflicted, a novice in the dark side and because Obi-Wan trained him. This 10 years later. 10 years of Sith training. The man can pull ships from the sky. His only rivals are Sheev and Yoda. Not Obi-Wan.

And while I think the piece was poorly written, they didn't put that dialogue there for no reason. The obvious implication is no one can boogey with King Crimson. So we have to explain why he lost. It's exactly what they showed with Obi-Wan earlier in the series, except Obi-Wan ain't Vader.

I think you might have misread the more powerful. I am referring to Kenobi getting more power as the fight goes on. So the more powerful is in regards to powering up.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

I think you might have misread the more powerful. I am referring to Kenobi getting more power as the fight goes on. So the more powerful is in regards to powering up.

Okay, and? That doesn't mean he should be able to overpower Vader. That's the point. Which is the issue with how the fight plays out, and why the lean on the, 'Vader's heart wasn't really in it" argument.

 

[Johnny Richards]

For someone trying to die on this hill, you still haven't answered what should be an easy request:

Listen to the nonsense you're suggesting:

1. Obi-Wan and Yoda have separate agendas. They just act like they're on the same page. They're not.

Absurd? Yep.

2. Obi-Wan actually expects Luke Skywalker with ONE MONTH of Jedi training to KILL his Father, Darth Vader, a 20-year Sith Lord.

Absurd? Yep.

3. Obi-Wan sends Luke to train under Yoda, who won't agree to his idea that Luke should kill Vader, but figures "Hey, Luke needs SOME training in order to kill my VERY powerful Sith Lord apprentice." Yoda agrees to train him reluctantly and hopes to administer his own agenda to Luke that challenges Obi-Wan's.

The absurdity is strong here.

 

[Bobber]

"The mission isn't for Luke to go out and kill his father."

-George Lucas, CREATOR OF STAR WARS

The same George Lucas who said during the creation of the OT that Yoda is strong in the force, but is more of a teacher, and would be absolutely useless with a lightsaber? That George Lucas?

 

[Gothamsknight]

Welp this episode pretty much had me in tears. Having Anakin's voice distorted through Vader's mask was both chilling and emotional.

 

[misjuevos]

Okay, and? That doesn't mean he should be able to overpower Vader. That's the point. Which is the issue with how the fight plays out, and why the lean on the, 'Vader's heart wasn't really in it" argument.

I say outmatched when kenobi is powered back up. Kenobi is just better at fighting Vader, then Vader is at fighting Kenobi. doesn't matter how much force Vader uses Kenobi just knows how to beat him.

 

[Gaultheria]

I almost feel kinda bad they were/are probably betting on doing another show with Reva.

Reva is a former Sith, and Ahsoka is a former Jedi. I sense a teamup.

 

[Pennywise]

Will write a review later, but I had mixed feelings about the episode. Not as exciting or cinematic as I hoped, but there were some great moments throughout.

 

[Gaultheria]

Yep. I mean they even confirmed earlier on with the flashbacks that Anakin has always been more powerful and that Obi-Wan only ever beat him due to his arrogance (as per ROTS as well). To have him brute force stomp Vader here was absolutely idiotic. It also is completely inconsistent with the power levels established in the PT. Yoda and Palpatine needing utmost concentration to throw Senate pods at each other looks like child play in comparison to the way Kenobi levitated countless boulders all at once and threw them at Vader while still actively dueling.

This was Kenobi’s "I am all the Jedi" moment. The Force comes from every living thing, so a huge amount of power is there to be directed if the practitioner is close enough in tune with it. I agree, though, that it’s a deus ex machina that doesn’t make for effective drama. A little bit of extra insight into when to press the fire button, or the ability to summon a needed weapon, is already a powerful advantage, and anything beyond that level is just inflation.

 

[henzINNIT]

The absurdity is strong here.

Yup. Obi-Wan clearly wanted Luke to kill Vader. Not only is it explicit in dialogue, it is a core part of the dramatic tension in RotJ. Luke turning his father was something no-one thought would work. He didn't go there to enact his masters' plan, he succeeded by defying them and all expectations.

 

[Weather Witch]

Will write a review later, but I had mixed feelings about the episode. Not as exciting or cinematic as I hoped, but there were some great moments throughout.

Agreed! I really want to binge the whole thing and see how I feel after that. I think it might help. As whole, there are still a lot of things I liked, but I was hoping for a bit more.

 

[FTCBIRDMAN]

Listen to the nonsense you're suggesting:

1. Obi-Wan and Yoda have separate agendas. They just act like they're on the same page. They're not.

Absurd? Yep.

2. Obi-Wan actually expects Luke Skywalker with ONE MONTH of Jedi training to KILL his Father, Darth Vader, a 20-year Sith Lord.

Absurd? Yep.

3. Obi-Wan sends Luke to train under Yoda, who won't agree to his idea that Luke should kill Vader, but figures "Hey, Luke needs SOME training in order to kill my VERY powerful Sith Lord apprentice." Yoda agrees to train him reluctantly and hopes to administer his own agenda to Luke that challenges Obi-Wan's.

The absurdity is strong here.

The absurdity is definitely strong. You refuse to explain why Kenobi said what he did to Luke in ROTJ. "Then the emperor has already won". Explain it.

 

[Ninjablade]

Listen to the nonsense you're suggesting:

1. Obi-Wan and Yoda have separate agendas. They just act like they're on the same page. They're not.

Absurd? Yep.

2. Obi-Wan actually expects Luke Skywalker with ONE MONTH of Jedi training to KILL his Father, Darth Vader, a 20-year Sith Lord.

Absurd? Yep.

3. Obi-Wan sends Luke to train under Yoda, who won't agree to his idea that Luke should kill Vader, but figures "Hey, Luke needs SOME training in order to kill my VERY powerful Sith Lord apprentice." Yoda agrees to train him reluctantly and hopes to administer his own agenda to Luke that challenges Obi-Wan's.

The absurdity is strong here.

The only absurdity is that you're the only one here that is arguing against literal dialogue in the film, and the general understanding everyone has of Obi Wan's goals in the OT.

Keep on keeping on, I guess.

 

[antsman41]

"I am not your failure, Obi-Wan. You didn't kill Anakin Skywalker... I did."

...easily the best Vader quote.

 

[The Caped Knight]

From a certain point of view this series finale was predictable and anticlimactic .

Was this series necessary?!... Nope it didn't really add anything new that elevated these iconic characters.

I enjoyed seeing the Power scale of Vader's raw, abilities in his prime and having James Earl Jones reprising his role as The voice of Vader was delightful. Hayden did an adequate performance in his unique style wearing the iconic armor.

Ewan gave it his all in his performance as Obi-Wan (Ben) Kenobi and for that I'm pleased. However his character wasn't written as good as I would have hoped. While he definitely took unique approach as an exiled hermit. I feel that they didn't translate as effectively towards becoming Sir. Alec Guinness version of the wise ol Ben Kenobi.

Little Leia was a unique twist to have in the show Rather than Luke. The young actress definitely brought alot of the spunk that reflected Carrie Fisher's style from A New Hope. However at times she also was a bit annoying but that can simply be a result of bad writing.

The lightsaber choreography felt disjointed and somewhat unevenly coordinated. In the prequels it was intense and very flashy with tremendous speed. In the original trilogy it was more of an old fashioned sword man fencing duel. But this show doesn't strike a delicate balance between the two as it should have .

Wtf did they do to Palpatine's design he doesn't look right . Seriously how hard is it to get the design to look accurate My God did they drop the ball.

So Qui-Gon was there the entire time ( I call Bull)

It was nice to see Luke, and Ben have a moment though brief .

 

[The Caped Knight]

Season 2 please. Training with Qui-Gon now.

Oh dear God.....No Season 2, One and done. I don't want anymore butchering of these classic characters

 

[Arachnerd]

Welp, just dropping by quick here to say I really enjoyed the finale and overall, while the show definitely had major issues, there was more good than bad imo.

I'll leave most of you to hyperbolically rip this show to pieces as per use.

 

[Prison Mike]

Loved the finale and enjoyed the series very much overall. It wasn’t perfect and the nostalgia did the heavy lifting but it was still a blast. Probably my favorite Star Wars Disney+ series so far. The only thing I would probably change is the story arc for Reva. They waited too long to go into her backstory and motivation to go after Obi-Wan. I would have revealed all of it at the end of the second episode (when she mentions Anakin is alive) and then have episodes 3-5 showing her wrestle with her desire for revenge and doing what’s right (i.e. going too far and becoming like Anakin). It would make her story in episode 6 much more sympathetic and I would maybe actually like her character. What they actually did with her was too little too late, IMO. I don’t know if they intend to spin her off into her own series but I would be pretty apathetic towards that.

Everything else with Anakin, Obi-Wan, Leia was…*chef’s kiss*

 

[Gothamsknight]

Welp, just dropping by quick here to say I really enjoyed the finale and overall, while the show definitely had major issues, there was more good than bad imo.

I'll leave most of you to hyperbolically rip this show to pieces as per use.

What gets me is that it seems people on social media wanted this show to be episode 6 but stretched out over the course of all the 6 episodes. Which would have been impossible.