Prometheus - Part 8

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I personally like when this stuff actually exist in the film in the first place and doesn't require reading pre or post game reading to "fully grasp".

There is a difference between subtly and and not being in the film.
For those observant enough to grasp it, you don't need any additional reading.

And I'm not even in that crowd of observant people all the time. But at the same time, I don't consider it not to exist just because I, personally, don't see it. To me, that position has a certain amount of needless stubbornness to it.

I'm always looking to expand and explore my knowledge base on that stuff. Like German Expressionism for instance, at the moment, I really don't much of it without it being explained, but it truly is an extremely - and universally - admired method of filmmaking and storytelling.
 
Okay guys, I KNOW I wasn't the only one who was laughing like crazy when [blackout]the Engineer ripped off David's head and beat Weyland in the head with it.[/blackout] Was I the only one?

:o :o :o



I laughed the hardest at David's "poor choice of words".

Fassbender was brilliant.
 
3). That Halloway wasn't written better. I had no problem that the other crew members were cardboard cutouts - that was always kind of the fun of the Alien movies (expendable crew members!) - but Halloway was so integral to the whole character arc with Shaw, he really should've been better fleshed out.
I agree. To be honest, I didn't find the character of Holloway to be likeable at all, but maybe that was because of the actor's portrayal.
 
What I didn't like about Holloway was when he just gets all mopey that they didn't find anyone alive to talk to. I mean they barely got there, explore some more and see what else is there.
 
I honestly feel like there are two groups dividing over this film that are overstating their arguments. The first is the group who insists that the film is shallow, or stupid or without merit because of its problems in the script. The second is the group that kind of dismisses it's problems as irrelevant because it is a movie full of big ideas and themes.

I kind of disagree with both. This movie does have its problems. I think most of it stems from a screenplay that tries to do too much. I think if [blackout]Charlie Holloway[/blackout] had been the sole one infected and they let him on the ship and he slowly degrades to the point where he starts attacking the crew, as opposed to having him [blackout]commit suicide by Vickers's flames[/blackout] and then a second infected character come in with no build-up, that it would have focused the horror of the film.

Despite having a messy, even muddled middle section of the movie, I do not believe that it's a bad movie, just because it is not a great one. Even with the flaws, it explores interesting concepts of us meeting our makers and the cynical scientific solution versus religion. It doesn't give answers and that makes it more engaging. In matters of creation (or also in the movie's case, destruction) no answer can really satisfy our cravings, but a small taste of forbidden knowledge to something much bigger can torment the mind and haunt one more. Audiences hate not being given everything these days, but it is a testament to this movie people are arguing about why the aliens would kill us after creating us and what their motives are. Like that of God, it should be beyond human comprehension. These argument we're seeing shows that it did work as intended in that regard.

Also, it does ignore the visual craft of what Ridley did in creating this world that is the most eerily creepy alien world we've seen in a long time. Also, the performances from Rapace and Fassbender are fascinating to me in the sense of dread and existential angst they both create for themselves and the audiences. Anyone who wasn't on the edge of their seat during the [blackout]abortion scene[/blackout] is probably lying. ;)

I know people want to compare this to Alien this or Aliens that. And while I do think it is thematically more interesting than the latter, it really can't match either film because those were flawlessly executed and this was not. What I consider a better comparison is Blade Runner. Like Prometheus, BR taps into some really amazing ideas and concepts in a broad and visceral way. However, narratively it is somewhat generic in its use of noir clichés and a very simple detective story. But it teases the mind to much bigger ideas and despite all the problems BR did have, it is both visually and intellectually stunning. They don't give the viewer all the answers and leave you wanting and questioning more, but what is there, despite some narrative/script problems, is pretty fascinating.

Just a thought.
 
I like Logan as an actor. I believe he's got a bright future, but his character received the shaft. Holloway became too distraught and depressed over the 'extinct' Space Jockeys. I think they missed a grand opportunity with Holloway.
 
Well an interesting way they could've gone is if he actually chose to be infected by that black goo. He wanted to know so badly that he would do something so stupid.
 
I honestly feel like there are two groups dividing over this film that are overstating their arguments. The first is the group who insists that the film is shallow, or stupid or without merit because of its problems in the script. The second is the group that kind of dismisses it's problems as irrelevant because it is a movie full of big ideas and themes.

I kind of disagree with both. This movie does have its problems. I think most of it stems from a screenplay that tries to do too much. I think if [blackout]Charlie Holloway[/blackout] had been the sole one infected and they let him on the ship and he slowly degrades to the point where he starts attacking the crew, as opposed to having him [blackout]commit suicide by Vickers's flames[/blackout] and then a second infected character come in with no build-up, that it would have focused the horror of the film.

Despite having a messy, even muddled middle section of the movie, I do not believe that it's a bad movie, just because it is not a great one. Even with the flaws, it explores interesting concepts of us meeting our makers and the cynical scientific solution versus religion. It doesn't give answers and that makes it more engaging. In matters of creation (or also in the movie's case, destruction) no answer can really satisfy our cravings, but a small taste of forbidden knowledge to something much bigger can torment the mind and haunt one more. Audiences hate not being given everything these days, but it is a testament to this movie people are arguing about why the aliens would kill us after creating us and what their motives are. Like that of God, it should be beyond human comprehension. These argument we're seeing shows that it did work as intended in that regard.

Also, it does ignore the visual craft of what Ridley did in creating this world that is the most eerily creepy alien world we've seen in a long time. Also, the performances from Rapace and Fassbender are fascinating to me in the sense of dread and existential angst they both create for themselves and the audiences. Anyone who wasn't on the edge of their seat during the [blackout]abortion scene[/blackout] is probably lying. ;)

I know people want to compare this to Alien this or Aliens that. And while I do think it is thematically more interesting than the latter, it really can't match either film because those were flawlessly executed and this was not. What I consider a better comparison is Blade Runner. Like Prometheus, BR taps into some really amazing ideas and concepts in a broad and visceral way. However, narratively it is somewhat generic in its use of noir clichés and a very simple detective story. But it teases the mind to much bigger ideas and despite all the problems BR did have, it is both visually and intellectually stunning. They don't give the viewer all the answers and leave you wanting and questioning more, but what is there, despite some narrative/script problems, is pretty fascinating.

Just a thought.

Precisely what I've been trying to reiterate the last two days. :up:
 
I love Drew McWeeny's tweet here.

https://***********/DrewAtHitFix/status/211935797711085570
 
Well an interesting way they could've gone is if he actually chose to be infected by that black goo. He wanted to know so badly that he would do something so stupid.

Yes, I was hoping for that when I read the spoilers. It would have highlighted his (and Shaw's) ambitions to find the truth. A sacrifice similar to the Engineer's and Prometheus himself.
 
Okay guys, I KNOW I wasn't the only one who was laughing like crazy when [blackout]the Engineer ripped off David's head and beat Weyland in the head with it.[/blackout] Was I the only one?

:o :o :o

I thought that was intentionally supposed to be funny in a dark way.

What pissed me off is some dumbass teenagers in the back of our theater laughing their asses off at the end scene where [blackout]the alien bursts out of the engineer/SJ.[/blackout] It's like the idea of that happening in a film set in the Alien-universe was crazy to them.

Speaking of which, ignoring the plot hole that the [blackout]SJ died on the escape module instead of in the cockpit,[/blackout] what did people think of that scene. Do you it goes back to Scott's original concept for the first film with a lone alien being able to lay the eggs without a queen? Thus explaining the cargo bay that John Hurt finds?

I am curious as to how people think we get from what we saw at the end of Prometheus to what we see at the beginning of Alien. I think that creature at the end is responsible. Just a feeling.
 
I thought that was intentionally supposed to be funny in a dark way.

What pissed me off is some dumbass teenagers in the back of our theater laughing their asses off at the end scene where [blackout]the alien bursts out of the engineer/SJ.[/blackout] It's like the idea of that happening in a film set in the Alien-universe was crazy to them.
You have to realize that most teenagers have never heard of Alien. All they know is those crappy AvP movies.
 
OK, I love the original Alien and really enjoyed Aliens. I do not like Alien 3 and I despise Alien Resurrection. And I admit to not really liking Blade Runner when it came out and I was 17, but have learned to really appreciate and enjoy the film.

I also consider myself intelligent. That said I was a bit disappointed in Prometheus and a bit confused about some things. On the plus side, the film does look amazing and the 3D was excellent, and I usually don't like 3D.

But...
I haven't read this whole thread, but am I the only one disappointed in the Space Jockeys? I mean Giger came up with this really cool fossilized creature in Alien and now it's just a space suit for a fairly human like creature?

Also I was confused by the black goo, the snake things, the squid creature, and the eventual proto-Alien and their relations to each other.

I did like the use of the original Alien music when the holo of Weyland addressed the crew.

And addressing what others said on this thread, yes I picked up on the WE ARE LEAVING Aliens reference and I was also saying why didn't those two woman just run to the side instead of in a straight line as the ship was falling down. :p

I will probably give this film another chance, but probably wait until it comes to Blu-Ray.
 
Well an interesting way they could've gone is if he actually chose to be infected by that black goo. He wanted to know so badly that he would do something so stupid.

I actually like that it's [blackout]]David who infects him.[/blackout] It really brings out the sinister ulterior motives of the Weyland corporation. We just kind of think they sent the crew of the Nostromo in Alien to be slaughtered by a specimen to bring back, but in this we see the "man" most in line with the company's objectives and desires (like Ash in the original film) straight out cause the contamination. And you know after what happened that he was setting Elizabeth up to be the carrier of the specimen home like in the plan in Aliens, which makes her fight for survival all the more desperate and engrossing.

My main problem with Holloway is they [blackout]kill him off far too quickly.[/blackout] As I said in the other post, instead of randomly and confusingly bringing back the geologist, have the captain force Vickers to stand down and quarantine Holloway. In the process, Holloway transforms into some disgusting half-human monstrosity and breaks free from contamination and goes on that killing spree in the movie. They have no choice but to torch him and it is only after this that Shaw finds out that she's [blackout]"pregnant"[/blackout] and does what she does. That would tighten up the second act incredibly, give a better payoff to Holloway's infection and push the body horror even further. I really think if they tightened up the middle with just this one change, the whole movie would have been greatly elevated, in my opinion.
 
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Speaking of which, ignoring the plot hole that the [blackout]SJ died on the escape module instead of in the cockpit,[/blackout] what did people think of that scene. Do you it goes back to Scott's original concept for the first film with a lone alien being able to lay the eggs without a queen? Thus explaining the cargo bay that John Hurt finds?

I am curious as to how people think we get from what we saw at the end of Prometheus to what we see at the beginning of Alien. I think that creature at the end is responsible. Just a feeling.

Spoiler tags, as the question was asked with spoiler tags:

I don't think that ship in Prometheus was meant to be the same one in Alien. I think it was a Space Jockey/Engineer ship not the Space Jockey/Engineer ship.
 
One thing I'd change.
I'd have Vickers move out of the way of the ship, go with Shaw to her escape cabin and then have the Engineer tear her in half when he busts in. Would make a great scare.
 
It wasn't the film I quite wanted, but it was good. It's funny because I left the theater conflicted. On one hand, I was disapointed by the open-ended..hell, open-beginning of the film. Lots of unanswered questions. But on the other hand, I can't stop thinking about it. This movie incites thought and conversation.
 
I haven't read this whole thread, but am I the only one disappointed in the Space Jockeys? I mean Giger came up with this really cool fossilized creature in Alien and now it's just a space suit for a fairly human like creature?

Also I was confused by the black goo, the snake things, the squid creature, and the eventual proto-Alien and their relations to each other.

I will probably give this film another chance, but probably wait until it comes to Blu-Ray.

The black goo is genetically engineered DNA, a biological weapon it seems, capable of destroying life as witnessed in the film's opening.

The "snakes" were the worms that were crawling in the dirt, infected/taken over by the goo.

The squid seems to be an early face hugger like creature, created through a female host (or could be a male host also), similar to how the face huggers birth aliens with a host. Only that instead of a face hugger directly attaching and ingesting into a host, it was the black goo that did so, the "building blocks" of a face hugger perhaps.

These are just my assumptions/interpretation of what I saw though. This film does indeed raise more questions than it answers,
the biggest being of course why were we created, if we even were, and why were we going to be destroyed/turned into the aliens?

All in all it is a fascinating stand alone, but tied into the Alien universe it seems more mediocre/average at best.
 
I actually like that it's [blackout]]David who infects him.[/blackout] It really brings out the sinister ulterior motives of the Weyland corporation. We just kind of think they sent the crew of the Nostromo in Alien to be slaughtered by a specimen to bring back, but in this we see the "man" most in line with the company's objectives and desires (like Ash in the original film) straight out cause the contamination. And you know after what happened that he was setting Elizabeth up to be the carrier of the specimen home like in the plan in Aliens, which makes her fight for survival all the more desperate and engrossing.

My main problem with Holloway is they [blackout]kill him off far too quickly.[/blackout] As I said in the other post, instead of randomly and confusingly bringing back the geologist, have the captain force Vickers to stand down and quarantine Holloway. In the process, Holloway transforms into some disgusting half-human monstrosity and breaks free from contamination and goes on that killing spree in the movie. They have no choice but to torch him and it is only after this that Shaw finds out that she's [blackout]"pregnant"[/blackout] and does what she does. That would tighten up the second act incredibly, give a better payoff to Holloway's infection and push the body horror even further. I really think if they tightened up the middle with just this one change, the whole movie would have been greatly elevated, in my opinion.

You make some great points, sir, and I agree with many of them. The problems with Prometheus are beyond "we just don't get it."
 
Regarding the Jockey's appearance:

The way I view the Space Jockeys looking humanoid is that maybe it's a play on the whole "God created us in his own image". Makes sense to me.
 
The way their built just makes them look like Gods. Like Greek statues that just came to life.
 
The thing I love about them is that so many aspects of their culture relates to numerous mythologies and religions.
 
Okay guys, I KNOW I wasn't the only one who was laughing like crazy when [blackout]the Engineer ripped off David's head and beat Weyland in the head with it.[/blackout] Was I the only one?

:o :o :o

No, I quite liked David so I didn't laugh then. But people in the audience started laughing (in a "wtf was that?!" kinda way) when the end-credits began to roll. Not quite the reaction you want for a sci-fi/horror film.

There were things I really liked about the film (the Engineers, David, some of the tech that was used). It's just there were more things I didn't. I wonder if the original script for this was better than the finished product.
 
I went in with high expectations, and left absolutely loving this film. Taking my family to see it during the week for a second round. ;)
 
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