Prometheus - Part 8

[jmc]

Eh, even just getting too hyped can really ruin an experience. Spider-man 3 is a great example. People were ridiculously hyped for that. The only film that's beaten the incredible hype SM3 had was TDK. Now, as we all know, the film was lacluster. But honestly, putting it in the spectrum of comic movies, it's about average. However, you had people saying it was one of the worst comic films ever made, which is just silly when you think of movies like Steel, the Punnisher Films, Supergirl, Electra, Howard the Duck, and many more.

I actually had an enjoyable time in the theatre when I watched SM3 because I wasn't really a fan of SM2 and I had low expectations. I didn't love it, I didn't even like it all that much, but it was a fairly enjoyable night at the movies with my friends.

Thing is though who the director is contributes to expectation. Expectations for me anyway where high because quite frankly Scott was going back to his roots, the trailers were impressive and the promo material looked great, I had every reason to believe he would deliver something great and it came up short.

 

[jmc]

No, being able to explain how you feel about something isn't a matter of taste, it's a matter of either intelligence or comprehension. And I obviously am not going to call anyone unintelligent.

And I don't even mean that in an insulting way. That's just fact. There's opinion in one column, then there's your ability (or want, or need, whatever the case may be) to explain your opinion in another column.

Well you sure as hell sound like you're calling people who don't 'explain themselves' unintelligent. You want answers because people don't agree with your assessment, sometimes people don't like something for whatever reason but can't put their finger on it, simple as that.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

But like I said, no one was really saying why until DS' post.

When everyone answers a question with "Eh, I dunno," it infers that there's a lack of comprehension.

You seem annoyed that some can't answer in any detail or depth they didn't like the film as much as you seem to think they should have. The real question is why the movie never explores its own themes and characters in any real detail or depth.

You are becoming frustrated with posters for doing exactly what this film did. And then you say you love it.

 

[Infinity9999x]

Thing is though who the director is contributes to expectation. Expectations for me anyway where high because quite frankly Scott was going back to his roots, the trailers were impressive and the promo material looked great, I had every reason to believe he would deliver something great and it came up short.

Eh, it can happen to anyone. Who would have thought Raimi was going to produce a dud with SM3? Before that film came out if you tried to crtique his other spidey films you got flamed to holy hell and back. I remember, because I wasn't a fan of SM2 (which on the boards then was akin to saying you were a satanist who ate babies). It happens. Which is why I try to always go in without too much hype. The only film I've gotten ridiculously excited for was TDK, but luckily that paid off for me.

I came in to Prometheus wanting to see a solid flick that was better then Aliens 3 through the AvP movies. And I got just that. But hey, if it's not your cup of tea it's just not. No problem with that. Just like earlier when I was talking about how I didn't think Aliens was as good as so many other people think. It just didn't "wow" me like it did with so many other people, but that's not a crime. We all have different tastes.t:

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Eh, even just getting too hyped can really ruin an experience. Spider-man 3 is a great example. People were ridiculously hyped for that. The only film that's beaten the incredible hype SM3 had was TDK. Now, as we all know, the film was lacluster. But honestly, putting it in the spectrum of comic movies, it's about average. However, you had people saying it was one of the worst comic films ever made, which is just silly when you think of movies like Steel, the Punnisher Films, Supergirl, Electra, Howard the Duck, and many more.

I actually had an enjoyable time in the theatre when I watched SM3 because I wasn't really a fan of SM2 and I had low expectations. I didn't love it, I didn't even like it all that much, but it was a fairly enjoyable night at the movies with my friends.

Expectations work differently for different people.

The funny thing is, I enjoyed Spider-Man 3 the first time because of low expectations. I however cannot watch it again in one sitting. It just doesn't hold my interest.

 

[terry78]

Don't turn it into a Lucas thing. We all have these classic directors we felt could do no wrong whatsover. Then they give us something that may not be sliced bread and we fall apart, as I mentioned before. These ****ers are all human. Even Nolan has faltered in some of his choices. That's right, I said it.

 

[CConn]

Well you sure as hell sound like you're calling people who don't 'explain themselves' unintelligent. You want answers because people don't agree with your assessment, sometimes people don't like something for whatever reason but can't put their finger on it, simple as that.

And that's cool. I don't have a problem with that. I've said the same thing myself.

But those same people are also disagreeing with people stating it's depth, and that's when you really need to explain the whys.

You seem annoyed that some can't answer in any detail or depth they didn't like the film as much as you seem to think they should have. The real question is why the movie never explores its own themes and characters in any real detail or depth.

You are becoming frustrated with posters for doing exactly what this film did. And then you say you love it.

Hah. No, I actually appreciated your reply quite a bit. It was enjoyable.

 

[TheOnlyOmega]

Don't turn it into a Lucas thing. We all have these classic directors we felt could do no wrong whatsover. Then they give us something that may not be sliced bread and we fall apart, as I mentioned before. These ****ers are all human. Even Nolan has faltered in some of his choices. That's right, I said it.

By "some of his choices", you mean Insomnia right? God I hated that movie

 

[Infinity9999x]

Expectations work differently for different people.

The funny thing is, I enjoyed Spider-Man 3 the first time because of low expectations. I however cannot watch it again in one sitting. It just doesn't hold my interest.

Haha, that's actually exactly how I feel now. I also had low expectations because I knew it wasn't going to be the Spidey film I wanted after SM2. But I can't make myself watch it all the way through now. Too many parts that I just find bland or annoying.

 

[jmc]

Don't turn it into a Lucas thing. We all have these classic directors we felt could do no wrong whatsover. Then they give us something that may not be sliced bread and we fall apart, as I mentioned before. These ****ers are all human. Even Nolan has faltered in some of his choices. That's right, I said it.

Hey, no-ones saying they're perfect, but certain directors bring certain expectations and when they don't hit those heights we place upon them (which honestly is unfair of us to do so) it makes for a lesser film experience. I don't think Scott is now some 'hack' director after Prometheus, it's a well made movie but it just doesn't reach the level I believe it could have.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Then why does he reply so snidely whenever anyone says anything about him being a robot?

Yes, Fassbender's performance is what delivers that message and question, but it's damn obviously from the dialogue that he didn't just throw that in himself.

I think Shaw's arc was explained with just enough depth that the remaining questions kept her motivations intriguing.

I do agree with Vickers' story not being delved into enough. That strikes me as something that got lost in the editing room.

I don't think you really need to explore it in depth. If you were to, it would make the movie drag. I will say, it did throw so many concepts around throughout the film, that in order to keep the pacing right, it had to limit just how introspective it was.

At the same time, that's not always a bad thing. If you go too far with the explainations, you end up with movies like Batman Begins where the word "fear" is said eighty million times.

Our motivations towards creating robots are - sure - but it raises questions about the Engineer's intents.
Sorry, that doesn't even make sense to me.

His foundation and backstory are pretty evident in the film (and if you need it handed to you, there's an entire website detailing it. ), yet his exact motivation is still a question. Yes, it has been done before. But, for me, I've yet to see it done in the particular way they did it in Prometheus. This is my personal preferences, but I'm a fan of that type of archetype that Weyland represents.
I would like to mention at this point, my whole goal was to show that the film had depth. The fact you admit that these questions even exist prove it had depth. Now, you could argue that it wasn't done in a quality fashion, but you didn't. You just said it wasn't there at all. More hyperbole.
I find cliche comes from the conclusions not the questions. And they didn't answer the question in any cliched way, which was a big win in my book.

Her religion was mentioned numerous times in the film.

Again, that statement right there, I can't vehemently disagree with. Because it's an opinion that I can understand (disagree with, but still understand). But again, if that's the case, I ask for the why to it (which you have done in this post, don't get me wrong).

No, not at all. It's deep because I felt their quotes about religion, science, and creation raised questions and intrigue in my own head.

If it they were as meaningless as you infer, I would've just walked out of the movie theater and forgotten about them. For me, that didn't happen at all. It was the exact opposite, actually.
Shouldn't that be hundreds or thousands?

A lot of this is repetitive, but I'll say two things.

David acting human is to be expected. He has been programmed to act human. That includes the flaws.

Mentioning Shaw's religion a lot doesn't mean it was explored in the least bit. You bring up Begins, but while Fear is said a lot, it is also explored. Through the fear gas, the mob's rule through fear, through Bruce's guilt for being afraid the night his parents died, how Bruce uses Batman both for himself and against his enemies.

Prometheus does not do this. It states ideas, it mentions them, but it does not explore them.

 

[CConn]

Also, I do want to say, there is a difference between comprehension and intelligence.

There's brilliant scientists who don't understand art at all, and there's talented artists who don't understand science. Sometimes different ways of storytelling has a similar effect on people. Some people are more inclined to enjoy and comprehend one writing style over another. Doesn't make them dumb at all.

 

[CConn]

A lot of this is repetitive, but I'll say two things.

David acting human is to be expected. He has been programmed to act human. That includes the flaws.

Mentioning Shaw's religion a lot doesn't mean it was explored in the least bit. You bring up Begins, but while Fear is said a lot, it is also explored. Through the fear gas, the mob's rule through fear, through Bruce's guilt for being afraid the night his parents died, how Bruce uses Batman.

Prometheus does not do this. It states ideas, it mentions them, but it does not explore them.

Through your points, I'm picking up on one overarching sentiment; "Prometheus has a lot of good ideas and intentions, but doesn't explore them in enough detail to be effect." Right?

That's understandable. I get that. Personally, I generally like when things are only hinted and there's a lot of interpretation left open to the audience, but I definitely understand the other perspective as well.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Oh, so now we are suppose to "understand" art.

 

[jmc]

Also, I do want to say, there is a difference between comprehension and intelligence.

There's brilliant scientists who don't understand art at all, and there's talented artists who don't understand science. Sometimes different ways of storytelling has a similar effect on people. Some people are more inclined to enjoy and comprehend one writing style over another. Doesn't make them dumb at all.

Dude, you're still assuming not enjoying the movie means a lack of understanding it.

 

[Warhammer]

Okay guys, I KNOW I wasn't the only one who was laughing like crazy when [blackout]the Engineer ripped off David's head and beat Weyland in the head with it.[/blackout] Was I the only one?

 

[CConn]

There's a general level of understanding with everything, yes.

Like I don't understand why people like Pulp Fiction as much as they do. To me, it's nothing more than series of unmoving vignettes that lack cohesion. To most people, it's an incredible film with a pop culture impact unlike few other films.

That's a matter of understanding. There's nothing wrong with it.

 

[CConn]

Dude, you're still assuming not enjoying the movie means a lack of understanding it.

No, I'm not, I'm saying if you don't explain something, it's going to be assumed you don't understand it.

That's it. You guys are really making a bigger deal of this than it needs to be. I'm not calling anyone dumb. I'm not saying anyone isn't perfectly entitled to their opinion.

If anything, I was digging for greater understanding on my own end of what problems people had with the film. Which DS answered quite well, actually.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Through your points, I'm picking up on one overarching sentiment; "Prometheus has a lot of good ideas and intentions, but doesn't explore them in enough detail to be effect." Right?

That's understandable. I get that. Personally, I generally like when things are only hinted and there's a lot of interpretation left open to the audience, but I definitely understand the other perspective as well.

I like good, well-written hints. Good, well-written hints are fun as is good, well-written mystery. It is why I love Memento. This isn't well-written.

 

[TheOnlyOmega]

Dude, you're still assuming not enjoying the movie means a lack of understanding it.

Well, with the way most people critique the film, it seems like they don't enjoy the film because the subtext flies over there head. I get where both of you are coming from, it's just the people who say it sucks without explaining why give out the signal that they didn't understand it. I'm sure there are quite a few who didn't like this film who grasped the layers and subtext while a good percentage of the others seem to have not grasped the subtext, just look at the IMDB Prometheus forums for an example of these people.

 

[CConn]

I like good, well-written hints. Good, well-written hints are fun as is good, well-written mystery. It is why I love Memento. This isn't well-written.

Like I said, I've always found Nolan's writing to be too blatant. But that's me.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Like I said, I've always found Nolan's writing to be too blatant. But that's me.

I find this mindset fascinating consider your deep affection for Prometheus.

 

[terry78]

Okay guys, I KNOW I wasn't the only one who was laughing like crazy when [blackout]the Engineer ripped off David's head and beat Weyland in the head with it.[/blackout] Was I the only one?

We got a lot of "awww, ****" comments at our showing.

 

[CConn]

I find this mindset fascinating consider your deep affection for Prometheus.

It's going to sound really ****ing pompous, but okay...

In terms of storytelling style, I've recently found myself trying to explore and fully grasp writing that is increasingly subtle and understated. I find it challenging, figuring out all of the edges of the story; to have character motivations or subtexual statements made in as minute way as possible, leaving the larger interpretation up to the audience.

It was originally spurred on by an analyzation I read of Burton's Batman movies; as the author detailed, for instance, through one shot in Batman Returns of Bruce sitting alone waiting for the bat signal to come on in the mansion, Burton expressed a great deal about what Bruce Wayne's psyche was post-his killing of the Joker; that he had withdrawn even more into his pain and obsession, but now, with his parents killer dead, he lost all direction and drive, and merely found himself going vacant and unfulfilled even by his crime fighting.

I absolutely love that a single scene of some dude sitting in a room with his chin on his fist could mean so much. It's just so...intricate and difficult to decipher. And that's what I like about Prometheus. What you see as a lack of exposition on certain subtext, I find to be merely curtains to hide the film's true intent and statements, and that's what I like about it.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

It's going to sound really ****ing pompous, but okay...

In terms of storytelling style, I've recently found myself trying to explore and fully grasp writing that is increasingly subtle and understated. I find it challenging, figuring out all of the edges of the story; to have character motivations or subtexual statements made in as minute way as possible, leaving the larger interpretation up to the audience.

It was originally spurred on by an analyzation I read of Burton's Batman movies; as the author detailed, for instance, through one shot in Batman Returns of Bruce sitting alone waiting for the bat signal to come on in the mansion, Burton expressed a great deal about what Bruce Wayne's psyche was post-his killing of the Joker; that he had withdrawn even more into his pain and obsession, but now, with his parents killer dead, he lost all direction and drive, and merely found himself going vacant and unfulfilled even by his crime fighting.

I absolutely love that a single scene of some dude sitting in a room with his chin on his fist could mean so much. It's just so...intricate and difficult to decipher. And that's what I like about Prometheus. What you see as a lack of exposition on certain subtext, I find to be merely curtains to hide the film's true intent and statements, and that's what I like about it.

I personally like when this stuff actually exist in the film in the first place and doesn't require reading pre or post game reading to "fully grasp".

There is a difference between subtly and and not being in the film.