Prometheus - Part 8

[X Knight]

Question about Weyland (the man):

Spoiler

Is the surprise reveal of him onboard the ship the first time we see him, or do we see him before they leave?

Exactly how does he die? Is it explicitly stated that David was acting on his orders by infecting Holloway, and that Weyland is trying to live forever?

Spoiler

You see a hologram of Weyland at the start of the mission, as he briefs the crew.

He dies after the remaining Engineer pushes him to the ground ( or he gets knocked to the ground during the scuffle ).

I believe it was left vague if David infected Holloway intentionally or if he was following orders from Weyland or did it on his own accord. It suggests that David certainly knew what he was doing.

Yes, it seemed that Weyland's motivation for meeting the Engineers was to look for a way to live forever.

 

[redhawk23]

Even though we disagree on the movie, I like the points you make and would like to discuss them.



Because upon sight of a vagina men lose their intelligence?

1Seriously though, for me this was a case of someone being book-smart but street-dumb. Also, they had been without food or water for a day, and running around a dark cavern in a panic. People do stupid, suicidal, irrational stuff in those situations, like people who go nuts at the top of Everest.



2Yeah, that's one of the things that bugged me about the movie. Is Shaw an archeologist, an anthropologist, a geneticist, a biologist, or what? Then again, the generic "science officer" is a staple of most science fiction, even Alien 1.



I felt that part could have been better executed, and in more gory, graphic detail. However, the Engineer head autopsy established that extreme, unstable mutation was a fact of life on that world.



3I thought this was the most thematically effective part of the movie. After such a harrowing ride for the protagonist and the audience, it's sudden calm, and people around her are walking around like nothing we saw mattered. For me, it added a sense of surrealism and fatalism to the movie, revealing how evil the manipulations were that led her to this point.

Spiritually, this part reminded me of 1984, when Winston is hideously tortured for several days, then simply let go and left with the rest of his brief life.



4I find it best not to apply the rules of life on Earth to the life in an Alien movie. A plant can become massive with just water and light; I think most of the lifeforms we see in this franchise would not qualify as either animal or plant in our own classifications, and would have a metabolism and growth cycle such as we cannot conceive of.

1. It was plot induced stupidity and piss poor writing.

2. I'd be fine with the generic science officer excuse if most the crew weren't specifically hired scientists. I know the biologist was stuck down on the planet but it just didn't jive. The disection of the head was one thing. When she starts running genetic tests its quite another. Not really a huge deal I guess but still, it irked. Alien portrayed a group of space truckers with a token scientist. This film was specifically about a team of scientists on an exploratory mission.

3 and 4. You mistook my meaning. I have absolutely no problem with how fast the creature grew. That's kind of an alien staple. Chestburster to Xenomorph in a half an hour. My problem is that along with no one saying anything about the fact that a member of the crew (not to mention just in terms of the film, the main character) giving birth to a fracking alien, that no one did anything about the alien. This is the same crew that wouldn't allow a sick man back on board due to fears of contamination, but then an alien itself is just left in an (admittedly sealed and detatchable) room. It's a big deal, but no one gives a sh**, including David who apparently orchestrated the whole pregnancy.

 

[DACrowe]

Can I just say, that there is a great web spoof just waiting to be made. I'm talking about SPOILERS

Elizabeth Shaw and David's head going on wacky space adventures every week. It could be like a buddy-cop show where every week they find a new species and unleash bioweapons on them. They can do it with witty banter while David's head constantly quotes Lawrence of Arabia and other David Lean movies. You know what, screw a spoof. I want five movies of this. :aesome:

Seriously, I'm just waiting for someone to do that.

 

[Lord]

^ Agreed with everything you said!


So, in regard to the spoilerish concept art:

Spoiler

Don't these images cause a pretty crippling blow to the "it's not the same ship or planet" argument? These storyboards make it very clear that this was supposed to be "the" Alien and that it was supposed to stumble out of the bay and back to the alien ship....

What did you expect it to do?

Spoiler

That was just to show the alien, the planets are different, the air in them is different, the number is different, and the time between Prometheus and Alien is only 30-40 years, not wnough to so much change.

 

[DACrowe]

^ Except the scientists are completely stupid. Like the biologist who thought it would be a good idea to pet the vagina-faced snake alien that he just came upon, not to mention much of the dissection in the film is performed by...an archaeologist?


I saw the film yesterday. I wouldn't so much say I was underwhelmed by the film but I must say it was a bit of a mess. There were a lot of somewhat major things that happened separate from what another that in any other film would make up a part of the main conflict.

For one thing, how is it that a guy who has acid shrinkwrap his helmet to his face later show up bent end over end crab walking and then get up and be a super strong zombie-man, not to mention with his face more or less in tact?

How can the lead character of the film give herself a cessarian and give birth do an alien creature and nobody says a goddamned word about it (besides David making a pun)? Why was nothing done about said alien baby? Its not like it ran away and needed to be found like in alien. It was just left to its own devices to grow into a giant writhing mass of tentacles and orifices.


And all of that's on top of the whole Engineer plotline.

Much of these were un-addressed or under-addressed, mostly just graphic but ultimately useless non-sequiturs.

I agree on the guy who got an acid bath turning up later as a zombie and how nobody mentions Shaw's "baby" and how David, who obviously infected Holloway to watch what happens, doesn't look into the alien birthed from humans having sex in the medical room. Even if he thought it was dead, you'd think he'd want to study it.

It does have problems, and again if they had combined Holloway with the rampaging crazy man it would have worked better and tightened the plot, but it really is a thought-provoking movie has one killer scene (Shaw in the medical room) and a strong beginning and end. I hope that despite its narrative problems it, like Blade Runner, can find a more accepting audience once all the hype and disappointment dies down. We shall see.

 

[redhawk23]

The difference is that Blade Runner actually is a legitimately good film same thing with say, The Thing, which arguably just came out a bad time, so soon after E.T.

I don't think there is much about Prometheus that is simply being "misunderstood", much of the criticism isn't coming from people for whom the film just goes "over their heads" but because the film fails on some fairly basic levels, problems that aren't going to go away with time, unless of course people just stop caring about basic story telling.

 

[Pink Ranger]

Can I just say, that there is a great web spoof just waiting to be made. I'm talking about SPOILERS

Elizabeth Shaw and David's head going on wacky space adventures every week. It could be like a buddy-cop show where every week they find a new species and unleash bioweapons on them. They can do it with witty banter while David's head constantly quotes Lawrence of Arabia and other David Lean movies. You know what, screw a spoof. I want five movies of this. :aesome:

Seriously, I'm just waiting for someone to do that.

Just add in an unlikable space janitor and a poorly-acted vampire ninja and you've got Lexx.

 

[TheOnlyOmega]

It seems like the viral might continue in October

http://www.superherohype.com/news/a...eo-proves-the-prometheus-viral-is-still-going

I stayed till the end and saw the screen they were talking about, but I didn't think much of it. Wonder what it'll turn out to be.

Take this with a huge grain of salt, but I've been lurking on a decently sized Prometheus only forum, and there's a huge rumor going around that they're already shooting a sequel and that 10-11-12 thing is supposed to be a trailer reveal when the time comes. I hope it's not just a rumor...

 

[redhawk23]

Yeah not a chance they've already started filming a sequel.

 

[TheOnlyOmega]

Yeah not a chance they've already started filming a sequel.

I'm not saying I'm buying into it, but it can't be a DVD release, as 10-11-12 is a Thursday. What all could it possibly be?

 

[spider-neil]

If there is a sequel I will definately watch but I think a lot of people will pass as this movie wasn't the Alien movie they were expecting.

 

[bullets]

I honestly can't think of anything about the film I didn't like.

Neither can I . There were some moments where I wanted the story to go in a different direction but that didn't hurt my enjoyment of the film. Some people are comparing it to Star Wars : The Phantom Menace , which is baffling.
This wasn't even near the level of anticipation that movie had.

^ Except the scientists are completely stupid. Like the biologist who thought it would be a good idea to pet the vagina-faced snake alien that he just came upon, not to mention much of the dissection in the film is performed by...an archaeologist?

Yeah , I think everyone knew how that was going to turn out. As soon as those two were left behind it was just a matter of time , lol. I will admit the deaths were predictable.


Also I thought the experiment issue became secondary to David after Weyland wanted to leave the ship.

 

[monkpo1]

If there is a sequel I will definately watch but I think a lot of people will pass as this movie wasn't the Alien movie they were expecting.

Agreed. :P Alien deemed to be a sci-fi horror in a way, so I was expecting a few "scary" moments but Prometheus failed to bring it to the table. I found myself laughing most of the time, especially

Spoiler

when David's head interrupted Shaw's frequent crying and the nontraditional surgery

.

 

[chaseter]

http://cavalorn.livejournal.com/584135.html

 

[the_ultimate_evil]

linkara's, doug walkers and spoonys reviews

http://blip.tv/at4w/vlog-6-8-12-prometheus-6192604
http://blip.tv/bum-reviews/doug-walker-reviews-prometheus-6195495
http://blip.tv/the-spoony-experiment/vlog-6-8-12-prometheus-6194523

i purposely avoided any reviews before i went to see it, but these guys seem to agree with most of the people falling on the "hate" it side of the fecne

 

[samsnee]

I blame Lindelhof. The guy just doesn't know how to tell a story. He thinks up cool things because they sound cool on paper but I feel like he always writes himself into a corner. I don't need answers to every question but the story should still make logical sense.

 

[E.NormusJohnson]

Who needs logic?! Why not make everything mysterious and open ended just like lost! That way we'll get the "it's art" crowd raging about how great it was everything was left to the viewers imagination... thanks David Chase!

 

[DACrowe]

The difference is that Blade Runner actually is a legitimately good film same thing with say, The Thing, which arguably just came out a bad time, so soon after E.T.

I don't think there is much about Prometheus that is simply being "misunderstood", much of the criticism isn't coming from people for whom the film just goes "over their heads" but because the film fails on some fairly basic levels, problems that aren't going to go away with time, unless of course people just stop caring about basic story telling.

Prometheus is a good film. I don't think it's a great film like BR or The Thing ('80s version), but it's a good one. And like BR, it has several plotting flaws that when coupled with astronomical hype and expectations for this particular movie, has led to a backlash. It could, unfairly, become the symbol of fanboy bitterness like The Phantom Menace or Spider-Man 3, but I hope it does not. There is a lot of good here and perhaps after people forget about their disappointment or unfulfilled hype/expectations, it will develop a fanbase for what good it does have. Which is quite a lot, in my opinion.

 

[chaseter]

I see no problem with Lindelof's writing. He doesn't answer everything and makes you guess on some things and I guess that pisses people off. Do we need a line that states what the black goo does as it had different effects or do we interpret it ourselves. People herald Nolan for Inception that had a story that can be interpreted so many ways because he doesn't spoon feed us but people crucify Lindelof for not connecting the film exactly to Alien.

 

[Destructus86]

I see no problem with Lindelof's writing. He doesn't answer everything and makes you guess on some things and I guess that pisses people off. Do we need a line that states what the black goo does as it had different effects or do we interpret it ourselves. People herald Nolan for Inception that had a story that can be interpreted so many ways because he doesn't spoon feed us but people crucify Lindelof for not connecting the film exactly to Alien.

Yeah, I actually PREFER to keep things unexplained. I hate it when films feel like like everything needs to be explained...leave it up to our imagination I say.

 

[E.NormusJohnson]

How about Lindelof actually explaining to us "anything" about the Engineers who were precisely why RS wen't back to make this movie?

 

[Brem]

Who needs logic?! Why not make everything mysterious and open ended just like lost! That way we'll get the "it's art" crowd raging about how great it was everything was left to the viewers imagination... thanks David Chase!

That's no worse than the people who have been complaining since release.

Don't get me wrong, this is a discussion forum, and I appreciate that. On the other hand, and I can't speak for anyone else, I find it tiresome to see a new post in any thread, and see the same complaints made day after day.

And often it isn't from different people, it's from the same people carrying on the same argument/debate.

Personally, I enjoyed the film on my second viewing, I understood more and got past the issues I saw in my first viewing. I have my own thoughts and ideas how things worked in the film, but I can't be bothered share them because I know it'll be picked apart by people complaining.

It wouldn't bother me if the debate/discussion was actually worth reading, though. But it feels less of a discussion, more of a "I'm right, you're wrong" with no explanation why on both sides sometimes. Or completely dismissing what can sometimes be a logical explanation to some of the events in the film, and claiming we shouldn't have to work it out for ourselves.

Anyway, that's my piece said. I loved the film, can't wait to see it again, can't wait for the Blu-Ray. I also can't wait for people to relax a bit and not, or so it feels anyway, be at each other throats over the film.

 

[chaseter]

How about Lindelof actually explaining to us "anything" about the Engineers who were precisely why RS wen't back to make this movie?

Why? The movie isn't about the engineers. The first Alien movie didn't explain everything TOMG!?

There was a great line in the movie when Shaw questions about who made the engineers? It's obvious one of them seeded the Earth with life and they monitored life on Earth and visited Earth...hence all the cave paintings. Then, about 2000 years ago they decide to end life on Earth for whatever reason and all contact ceases. What more do you want to know? Their names? If they had massive orgies and that is why they were caught with their pants down in a pile!?

 

[Destructus86]

How about Lindelof actually explaining to us "anything" about the Engineers who were precisely why RS wen't back to make this movie?

why?

 

[samsnee]

Yeah, I actually PREFER to keep things unexplained. I hate it when films feel like like everything needs to be explained...leave it up to our imagination I say.

But why does it have to br one or the other? I'm not asking to be spoon fed answers. But I just find his writing to be lazy. Basically it consists of "Wouldn't this be cool" moments without making sense logically in the overall story.