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Safe Haven for Those Who Demand More

Herr Logan said:
Cullen doesn't count as usual
Do so count. Up to twenty if I got my shoes and socks off.

If you think multiple Havens are feasible and worth while to maintain, if you think you can garner more interesting responses, if you're going to have fun doing it, then why sit around and wait for a tally? DO IT!

What also makes sense, to my feeble little brain, is setting up a poll in each forum you want to hit. Make your case for what you'd like the thread to be and see what happens. I don't think it serve much point to start a thread in, say, the Nightmask forums when the Nightmask fans don't care one way or the other.

(And I know there's no Nightmask forums. I'm probably the only Nightmask fan here. Thought using an obscure New Universe Super Hero made more sense than implying something about fans of other, more popular heroes...)
 
In response Herr, I say go for it. The separation would streamline things and render it easier to build off existing ideas. My reservation earlier was centered around a lack of cohension for lesser discussed topics. After thinking about it, since I generally only participate in the Batman discussion, cohension shouldn't really bother me. As a matter of fact, I'd welcome the demarcation. I attempted to locate Hunter's take on an Iron Man movie the other day with no success. If one of those snazzy links you've been collecting could point me there, I'd appreciate it. ;)

If you've received some indication by a mod that simpleton apologists will be kept at bay, it's worth a shot. If the move doesn't prove advantageous, you could always centralize discussion here again.
 
Cullen said:
Do so count. Up to twenty if I got my shoes and socks off.

If you think multiple Havens are feasible and worth while to maintain, if you think you can garner more interesting responses, if you're going to have fun doing it, then why sit around and wait for a tally? DO IT!

What also makes sense, to my feeble little brain, is setting up a poll in each forum you want to hit. Make your case for what you'd like the thread to be and see what happens. I don't think it serve much point to start a thread in, say, the Nightmask forums when the Nightmask fans don't care one way or the other.

(And I know there's no Nightmask forums. I'm probably the only Nightmask fan here. Thought using an obscure New Universe Super Hero made more sense than implying something about fans of other, more popular heroes...)

Wait, what exactly would the poll be for? Would these be threads created solely for the polls in each forum (not every forum, since nobody in the Haven has discussed Ghost Rider, the Punisher, Transformers or Sin City to any significant degree, if at all... and that's not an invitation, although I'll create more threads if people PM me with requests for these subjects) to find out if I should create another thread (an actual Haven) in each forum? I'm sure as hell not going to start out the new threads with discussion of whether it should stay open or not.

I don't need approval from the people who frequent those boards. They have no power, other than the power of annoyance. I just wanted a mod's "okay" so I wouldn't get chastised for created that many new threads all at once (or in close succession to each other). If the people who frequent this thread have strong feelings either way, then I'll take that into consideration, but outside of that, the only issue that remains, if I proceed with this expansion, is how many links I post at the beginning of each thread, and how long it'll take to go through them all for sorting and deciding their significance.

By the way, if anyone has any particular posts they want linked at the beginning of a new Haven, send the post link to me (or post it here) and I'll try to make sure it's linked.


Also, just so everyone knows, in case anyone doesn't already, the Safe Haven for Those Who Demand More is fair game for the discussion of all non-comics media hypothetical/ideal superhero concepts, which includes movie, TV series and video games, instead of just movies. Concepts I'd like to continue discussing at some point include a video game I came up with a while ago, 'Batman: Dark Knight Detective' and a live-action Batman TV series. Also, the X-Men video game concept that several of us were working on a while back.


Thanks for the input, Cullen. Maybe I'll let your opinion count, just this once. ;)

:wolverine
 
Mister J said:
In response Herr, I say go for it. The separation would streamline things and render it easier to build off existing ideas. My reservation earlier was centered around a lack of cohension for lesser discussed topics. After thinking about it, since I generally only participate in the Batman discussion, cohension shouldn't really bother me. As a matter of fact, I'd welcome the demarcation. I attempted to locate Hunter's take on an Iron Man movie the other day with no success. If one of those snazzy links you've been collecting could point me there, I'd appreciate it. ;)

If you've received some indication by a mod that simpleton apologists will be kept at bay, it's worth a shot. If the move doesn't prove advantageous, you could always centralize discussion here again.

Okay, so I'm looking for my Fantastic Four movie idea for Everyman, my Penguin fight scene for Zev, and Hunter Rider's Iron Man movie idea. I'm still very early in the thread in terms of my review/collection right now, so it may take a little while. If the Hype's search function wasn't screwed up, it would be relatively easy to locate the latter, as Iron Man is a lesser-discussed topic here. Unfortunately, it resides in that full year of lost search results, I believe.


Thanks for your input on this, Mister J. :up:
It's true, we could centralize the discussion again if things don't go well.

I haven't received a message from a mod that specifically references protection, but it was the same mod I appealed to when I made this thread, and that time he agreed that mods would help if trouble started. You guys all know I can hold my own in an argument, but I'd really rather not do it here. Most of the movie forums are appropriate battlegrounds for verbal combat, not here. The same way I don't go into "Appreciation" threads and start trouble, I expect that same courtesy from others for my own thread. This is what some people might call a "haters'" thread, and if anyone has the urge to use that term as a derogative, they don't belong here, at all.
So yeah, if trouble starts, I'm gonna go run to an "adult" and tattle, so the big meanies will let us play in piece.

Then I'll be waiting for them in the parking lot...


That's three votes for "yes," one for "no," and I'm nowhere near finished taking inventory of the thread. If anyone wants to help me with this, let me know and we can designate sections of the thread (ex. I do pages 1-17, someone else does pages 17-34, someone else does pages 35-51... this is with the user options set to "forum default" for posts-per-page) to move this along faster.
If people do want to help, they would check each post in their designated pages for the superhero property mentioned or referenced and copy the link locations of all the posts they deem significant and paste those in a Word document or a Hype post, in lists sorted by category (which hero(es) are mentioned). If a post mentions more than one superhero property with significant content, then paste the link in all list categories that apply. If a post isn't in regard to a specific hero property but is significant in its own way (concerning the philosophy of the thread, general concepts about the industries we're dissenting against with specific reasons, etc.), make a list for that, too, and I'll review it and see if it should be posted in every category or not.

Else-wise, discuss what needs discussin' in the meantime.

:wolverine
 
I can help you out with the sorting HL. I likely won't be able to give it attention until late this evening, but if you figure to still be pluggin' away at organization, I'm up for it.
 
I just want to reiterate that if a disproportionate amount of posts in the reference lists are made by me, that's not to stroke my ego (or solely for that reason, anyway :o). Again, it's because a lot of my posts that have long-winded, detailed content (i.e. "significant") include a quote box with other posters' significant content, and although there are several links that include the same content (the original post and then a post that quotes that post and is itself link-worthy), it's in the minority in the list.

Again, if anyone has a post they think is significant for any reason and want it linked, show me and I'll try to make a note of it (so I won't edit it down when I double-check my lists and trim them down). I'm going through these relatively quickly and generally take "significant" in this case to mean "wordy or lengthy." That isn't the best definition, granted, but I figure if someone's going to go through these links in the new locations, they may as well get the most rambling for their time spent clicking and toggling different windows or tabs. Length is the only factor I can consider while doing this quickly, so it's not that I'm choosing it because I myself usually post long-winded content. I'm saying all this because I don't want to foster resentment. If I was going through these meticulously, I'd probably cut a large number of my own posts that seem repetitive.


Also, the best way to link these posts is to right-click on the post number link in the upper right corner and choose "Copy Link Location," then in the new window or tab containing the post, right-click on the thread title link above the post number link and do the same thing, then paste that URL in a Word document or post in a list. This way, the link will take you to the post but in the thread itself at the page and position of that post, instead of a single post window. This doesn't have to be done, though, as I could write these instructions in the new threads so people can use the single post links to access the thread and read the content before and after that post. I haven't been doing this already because it takes twice as long and it's harder to keep track of the order of these posts, because the URL for single post links has the post number, and the other one doesn't. I may go back and do this after I've reviewed everythinig, though.

I think I'm done confusing everybody, for the moment.

:wolverine
 
Mister J said:
I can help you out with the sorting HL. I likely won't be able to give it attention until late this evening, but if you figure to still be pluggin' away at organization, I'm up for it.
Excellent! :)

You can take pages 17-34 (or however many you want, starting from page 17. Thanks a lot, man. :up:

:wolverine
 
Wow, I've finally found a home here at the hype, and as always I'm way too late!


Should I wait for the individual threads or shall I start posting now?
 
Angry Sentinel said:
Wow, I've finally found a home here at the hype, and as always I'm way too late!


Should I wait for the individual threads or shall I start posting now?
Post away, Angry Sentinel. This place is still open for business. :)

Welcome to the Haven :up:

:wolverine
 
Herr Logan said:
Excellent! :)

You can take pages 17-34 (or however many you want, starting from page 17. Thanks a lot, man. :up:

:wolverine
17-34 it is and no problem.
 
Thanks, I just finished reading pages 1 - 11. I've got a lot of catching up to do. I will begin posting just as soon as I've finished this damn report for my job.
 
Mister J said:
17-34 it is and no problem.
Angry Sentinel said:
Thanks, I just finished reading pages 1 - 11. I've got a lot of catching up to do. I will begin posting just as soon as I've finished this damn report for my job.
Splendid! :up:

:wolverine
 
Mister J, I don't know if you've started collecting post links yet or not, but I'd like to request that all the posts concern my Batman video game concept be put in a separate list within the Batman list. I went on to page 20 without realizing I passed 16, so just do 20 through 34, if you still want to do it at all.

If it's too much of a pain, I can go through and collect the Batman video game posts myself. Memory lane isn't usually a fun place for me, but here it is.

:wolverine
 
Gotcha. They'll be under the Batman heading, but set apart from the other Dark Knight goodness.
 
Herr:

I'm just posting to make you aware that my absence here doesn't spell my being mislead from thus project, only that ulterior concerns are piling up and need attending to before I can post anything substantial to dissect. I know, I know, sinful of me, but nevertheless rest-assured that I am also working on the uber-extensive origin outline on the side, it's coming along gradually but its still coming. Meanwhile though, I would find it far more easier if from herein, if there is a matter concerning 'The Batman' you would like to bring up and disscuss with me, that you send me a PM. It will just be easier this way for me to respond for a while, at least until the workload is of me and then I can start frequenting back here on the Haven once again!

On what you said about 'Iron-Man': I'm willing to give this particular project the benefit of the doubt, for the moment. I feel that in the near future, I may come to regret those words, but for now I'm going to paitently hope for the best (but still fear the worse, for insurance). Since, well, Superman Returns is now a lost cause...(damn superkid my a$$!)
 
Zaphod said:
Herr:

I'm just posting to make you aware that my absence here doesn't spell my being mislead from thus project, only that ulterior concerns are piling up and need attending to before I can post anything substantial to dissect. I know, I know, sinful of me, but nevertheless rest-assured that I am also working on the uber-extensive origin outline on the side, it's coming along gradually but its still coming. Meanwhile though, I would find it far more easier if from herein, if there is a matter concerning 'The Batman' you would like to bring up and disscuss with me, that you send me a PM. It will just be easier this way for me to respond for a while, at least until the workload is of me and then I can start frequenting back here on the Haven once again!

On what you said about 'Iron-Man': I'm willing to give this particular project the benefit of the doubt, for the moment. I feel that in the near future, I may come to regret those words, but for now I'm going to paitently hope for the best (but still fear the worse, for insurance). Since, well, Superman Returns is now a lost cause...(damn superkid my a$$!)

"Benefit of the doubt??"
Nevermind. My paranoia is just acting up again.

I don't give any benefit of the doubt when the word "realism" is invoked, since that has proven to be a sure sign of damaged goods. Even 'Batman Begins' suffered heavily from this (and I still consider that a decent movie). It means they're going to stray from the source material under the guise of "realism" and then go ahead and deliver cheap sci-fi elements that apologists never seem to look at too closely. Organic webshooters, miniature suns that don't blind people staring at them without so much as sunglasses, microwave emitters that don't kill people but creates steam that somehow isn't hot enough to scald anyone even a little bit. That's the kind of bull$hit that comes from "realism" in superhero movies.

You can take this to the bank: Movie!Stark will be in costume about 1/10 of his overall screentime, and some of that will be without the helment on. That's Hollywood for you.


As for your infrequent posts, I understand you've got your schoolwork. That's no excuse at all, but I understand. ;)
Hopefully school will be done with for you soon and we'll have a brand new Batman Safe Haven to fill up with ideas. I look forward to your upcoming input on the origin. Take care.

:wolverine
 
Everyman said:
Thank you. I'll check it. This topic is taking monstrous dimensions.

No problem.

"Monstrous?" That's a good thing, right? :confused:





In other news, the Safe Haven expansion project will take a few days to go into effect. I will be opening a new thread for the following subjects: Batman, Captain America, Daredevil, Fantastic Four, Hulk, Iron Man, Spider-Man, Superman, and X-Men. These will go in their appropriate forum, and the ones without a forum of their own will go in Misc. Comics Films, like this thread.
I'm actually a little iffy on the Hulk, due to the small number of posts, so speak up and tell me if you guys think it should have its own thread or not.

When the new threads are launched, this thread will be henceforth designated as the miscellaneous Safe Haven, where topics less frequently discussed will stay and begin (ex. Black Panther, Teen Titans).

Each new thread will include a list of links to previous posts in this thread for reference and to spark some ideas for new contributors. This thread will feature links to "miscellaneous" topic posts. These lists do not include all relevant posts; they are merely a sample. If anyone has a post they think should be featured in its proper thread that isn't listed (or even if it is), feel free to link it or repost it.


In the meantime, it's business as usual, so post, dammit!

:wolverine
 
Herr Logan said:
No problem.

"Monstrous?" That's a good thing, right? :confused:
Well, yes, I guess, it means it's popular, but it's so big finding the right topic is confusing.

I will put my thoughts about a captain America movie together and get back to it. I am not too happy about the rumors I've heard about the real project, and I have a few ideas about how it could be done.
 
Everyman said:
Well, yes, I guess, it means it's popular, but it's so big finding the right topic is confusing.

Indeed. That's exactly why we're gonna branch out. The threads each may still grow large and full of varying concepts, but at least all but one of them will be centered around one superhero or team.


I will put my thoughts about a captain America movie together and get back to it. I am not too happy about the rumors I've heard about the real project, and I have a few ideas about how it could be done.

Splendid! :up:

What did you hear about the real project? Is there a real project actually in the works, or is this the kind of "in the works" that means they're still trying to find a producer, director, script, and everything else for years on end?

:wolverine
 
I neglected to reply to this somehow. My apologies.


Mister J said:
Certainly.
Scarecrow could come to hold Batman in the same vein as he does his childhood tormentors. Initially, Batman is just a hindrance to Crane's goals. Eventually, it evolves into more because Batman is 'bullying' Scarecrow, as you said.
Exactly. Also, this kind of sentiment would first be hinted at by Oswald Cobblepot, who sees the Batman as a would-be bully, but he isn't afraid during their first meeting. He has dealt with all his former bullies and will not be a victim of intimidation and persecution again. You know... until he is a victim again, of the "persecution" that befalls criminals in Gotham City in this brave new era of capes and cowls.
Shouldn't have pulled an umbrella when the man just wanted to talk, Oswald. Shouldn't have opened up them birdcages, either.



Bo Griggs was Crane's primary antagonist. Sherry Squires was his girlfriend, who also turned Crane down for a date or something. At any rate, he donned his Scarecrow costume, grabbed a gun and scared the crap out of them while they were driving. Their car crashed, Griggs was paralyzed, Squires was killed and Crane was delighted at the power that fear commands. Such fond memories.
Ah, I remember now. Crane was one sick puppy. Hell, I've wanted to repay bullies with violence, too, but I'm not stupid enough to earn arrest warrants and so forth. My sympathy for that kind of character truly ends when they start hurting innocent people. He fired a gun in a classroom and/or used fear gas on student volunteers when he was a professor, right? Neither of those behaviors are acceptable. For us bloodthirsty types, the man deserves to get beaten by another fan of the power of fear. That's what I would want to get across in a movie. Where you came from isn't always an excuse for where you go.


There's a very Vic Mackey-ish feel to Batman's relationship with Penguin. Needless to say, I like it.
I'll take that in the spirit in which it was intended. Batman ain't no cop killer. ;)

I was actually thinking of the similarities when Vic roughed up some punk in a liquor store this past season and told him to "spread the word" about how the Strike Team is back on the streets and as bad as ever. I'm considering having the Batman use those words (in addition to the other lines I took from an earlier screenplay of 'BATMAN'-- "Tell all your friends, I am the night"-- in a different scene) when I eventually get around to constructing a script.

You're preaching to the choir. Funny, seeing as how I don't particularly care for church. :p
Amen! :D

:wolverine
 
Man o man, o man, you really should put an x-men version of this thread in the x-forums. Cyclops fans really need it right now.
 
The Batman said:
Man o man, o man, you really should put an x-men version of this thread in the x-forums. Cyclops fans really need it right now.


Goddammit it all to hell!!!



Sorry, it's just that I was replying to your post and it was turning into a lengthy one, and then all the windows I had open froze and they ended up closing, and although I thought that I had copied the text I had written, it didn't take! That makes me so feckin' angry!



Yeah, basically I was saying that those people better behave if they're going to post in a Safe Haven thread, because desperation breeds stupidity in some cases.
Also, I'd never kill off Cyclops in an X-Men movie, and I'd never marginalize him the way Singer did either. None of this Wolverine and Jean crap. That was never the root of Wolverine's rivalry with Cyclops originally, and they shouldn't portray it as such.


I also said that the more I think about it, the more I'm sure that if I made an X-Men movie franchise, the first film would star the original team only. There's plenty to work with there if you care enough to make it happen.


That's all I can say right now. I'm too heartbroken to try and recapture the detail and eloquence of what I wrote before cruel fate decided to murder one of my posts before it had a chance to prove its worthiness in this world. Maybe with time I'll learn to dream again. :(

:wolverine
 
Herr Logan said:
Just so we're clear, this thread isn't primarily for venting the anger that comes from the piss-poor quality and infidelity to the source material of superhero movies. It's allowed, but that shouldn't be the focus. The focus is to come up with ideas for something better, in as much detail as possible. But yeah, a little ranting here and there is okay, as long as the majority of what you post is creative and constructive instead of retrospectively critical. Anti-source material studio apologists aren't allowed to interfere with us, so unless an insolent interloper dares violate the sanctity of our Haven, we need not dwell on they and their inferior and shallow critiques.






Kate Beckinsale for Rogue? I forget if her frame is conducive to a curvy body or not (not that I wasn't looking when I saw 'Underworld 2,' I just have a bad memory, is all). Rogue has to be curvy. She should also look pretty young when she first shows up, like perhaps just under 18 in the second movie.

Emmy Rossum looks good as Shadowcat. She can't look like she's taller than 5'3", though. Wolverine is supposed to be the shortest male full-grown X-Man, but he's still as taller or slightly taller than his adolescent female sidekicks (Kitty Pryde, Jubilation Lee).

I wouldn't have Bishop in a movie, personally. I don't like him, just like I don't like Cable, or any other time-travelling "badass" who needs to carry a gun to be a superhero. Malcolm Jamal Warner, wasn't he Theo on 'The Cosby Show'?

I'd personally choose Ron Pearlman as Sabretooth, but I wouldn't have Sabretooth in the first or second movies. Clancy Brown might have been a great choice when he was a little younger, too.


I've looked at that thread you mentioned a couple of times in the past. Lemme take another look-see...

Understand that I don't pick people I would cast definitively, because I know I don't know every suitable actor (I hate when people say things like "I can't think of anyone else who might be good, so this person should be cast") and I know that an "unknown" actor could be perfect for the role. By "unknown" I mean unknown, as in they'd have to be truly obscure in their previous work or just someone who answered a casting call who maybe did some theater work or went to a drama camp or something. I believe that the actor is not the star-making or deal-breaker for a character, but rather the writing is the key factor in everything. The director is very important, too. Only if an actor truly sucks at their job and the director either settles for a mediocre or crappy performance or demands one (like George Lucas in the 'Star Wars' prequels) can good writing be foiled by other factors.


Okay, I would never have come up with Sean Bean and wouldn't put him on a list if suggested right away, unless I saw an audition or reading that truly impressed me. I haven't seen every movie he's been in, but of the ones I've seen, he usually plays the same character-- cowardly, weak and psychopathic to some degree. Sometimes he plays a would-be hero who's too weak to fight against his baser impulses ('Fellowship of the Ring'), but he's played a traitor in almost everything I've seen him in.
I don't believe it's right to exclusively typecast though, so I wouldn't exclude him outright. He does have a decent enough look for Magneto, anyway, because yes, I would show a Magneto that looks younger than a Holocaust survivor would in real life. "Realism" should never be a top priority for a superhero movie, and to cut through all the complicated history in the comics that explains why Magneto looks younger (mainly the thing where Alpha de-aged him and Eric the Red re-aged him, I think), I'd simply have Xavier tell the X-Men that his mutant physiology keeps him in very good shape and relatively young-looking when one of them asks about it. Ideally, Magneto should look like he's in his 40's-50's but in peak condition. Hollywood is full of those, so it shouldn't be too hard.

I would not cast Brian Dennehy as the Beast. In my ideal X-Men movie series, it would start with the original team, where all of them are 18 except for Bobby Drake, who is 16. The Beast could be played by an actor who is older than 18, but the character should still look like a young man. The character himself could be considered more mature than most other X-Men, but he's also young at heart and very playful. I wouldn't cast anyone above the age of 30, unless someone above that age could pass for early 20's.

Tyra Banks has the perfect look for Storm. But she can't act her way out of a paper bag, so no. Damn shame.
Angela Basset is too old, although she's relatively young-looking for her real age, and smokin' hot. I'd want the character to at least look 25 at the very oldest when she appears in the second movie. The same would go for Nightcrawler, and Colossus can look like he's 25, but the character should be 18 by that point. Cyclops and the other original X-Men would have aged a few years in-between the first and second movies.

Billy Zane is a ridiculous choice for Xavier. What the hell are these people smoking? Lex Luthor, maybe, but not Xavier. I mean, God damn...
I don't know about Daniel Day-Lewis.

Joe Rogan (who I've never heard of before I saw that thread), seems like the perfect choice for Wolverine, physically. His frame is just right. I don't know how tall he is, but if he's significantly taller than 5'3", then there are ways of tricking the audience. If not simple camera tricks like having other characters stand on something while next to him, then the technology they used for the Hobbits in the 'Lord of the Rings' movies, although that's expensive and extreme. I don't know if this guy can act or if he ever has, though. Wolverine requires a decent actor. His character traits, to get them right, require a mixture of overtness and subtlety. Hugh Jackman was the wrong person to cast, but the true fault lies in the writing and directing. Even with that lacking script, Singer could have given us a real enough Wolverine if he just told Jackman to adopt certain mannerisms and speech patterns. A character like Nightcrawler or Colossus is easier to do than Wolverine, Cyclops or Storm (the latter needs a really good performance for the audience to willingly put up with her self-righteous, over-the-top manner), although every character has trademark behaviors that require effort and recognition by the actors and director.

James Franco has the right look for Nightcrawler. I don't know if he can pull off a decent German accent, though. I don't know how old he is, but actors older than their characters can pass if there are significant facial alterations like Nightcrawler and the Beast in his hairier form.



Thanks for that, and thanks for posting. :)

:wolverine

Yeah I won't complain anymore, but I will try to throw out some ideas(though yours are soooo darn good I don't know if there's anything I can really add, lol)
I don't know that many actors except the ones that are in movies and famous, so Kate was the best I could think of for now. I think she has a little bit of curves but not like Catherine Zeta-Jones. I was thinking of Rogue in her brown flight jacket with green and yellow bodysuit age when I saw Kate. The actors I said that were pretty good(from the people that posted on that X-Men cast forum) I was going by their looks only. I don't know who the Malcom Jamal guy is I just thought he looked like a good Bishop. I don't care for Bishop but I think Cable is pretty cool. I love Ron Perlman and he could be a great Sabretooth. I agree that they should give unknowns a chance! I mean with the 1st X-Men movie I was like "That was the best they could do!? Out of all the people in the world!?" Sean Bean I was going by looks and like you I'd have to see an audition as Magneto to be truly convinced. Yeah Billy Zane was complete crap for Xavier! Some people are blind when they come up with these. Maybe you should post your own ideas for cast members on there if you haven't already. Open these people's eyes to what the X-Men would like if they where flesh and blood, lol.
 

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