Safe Haven for Those Who Demand More

[Herr Logan]

Here's what I've found so far. This chunk of text mainly addresses costumes, team roster, some opening scenes and some of the character relationships:

X-Men Films
________________________________________
If I were making an X-Men movie, I'd have used the trimmed-down second generation— the team from the late 70's and early 80's. Specifically: Cyclops, Storm, Wolverine, Nightcrawler, Colossus and Kitty Pride.
These characters would have their classic costumes from that time, with minor alterations as compromises for the "realism" junkies. Skin-tight costumes that are individualized and darkened in color where needed. The only thing I'm unsure about is the bright yellow in Cyclops' costume. The fabric used for the various costumes would likely be akin to lycra, neoprene and latex where appropriate, but in the story it will be an undefined memory fabric that helps regulate body temperature and can be rearranged with the power of electricity or telekinesis (I don’t plan to have any telekinetics on this team, but in a sequel, Jean Grey would likely be a member; for now, the only one to change their costume without actually removing or putting on clothes would be Storm). These are basically unstable molecules, but if these franchises need to be kept separate, then the concept could be used without mentioning that Reed Richards provided the Xavier Institute with these materials.

I'd have Cyclops in a dark blue bodysuit with his head covered and a gold (or possibly silver) visor. I want to give him gold colored gloves, boots and the trunks, but like I said, I'm not sure if that would work well on-screen. As for the trunks themselves, there's no reason not to use them for Cyclops, Wolverine, Colossus and Kitty Pride. They'd be functional, as they're basically rappelling harnesses built into a garment that is more easily wearable than a traditional nylon webbing harness (this is an idea I came up with specifically for the Batman, but it can be used for many other characters, as long as those characters have any likelihood of rappelling— for example, this would not be appropriate for Superman).

Wolverine would wear his classic brown and tan costume, and yes, that includes the mask, God dammit. The boot wings would be sleek and not overly large. Similarly, the mask would be sleek, firm and not wobbly. The tan sections of the suit would be very dark tan, the arms would be bare, and they’d be noticeably hairy. When his mask is off, his hair would be like it was in the comics

Storm would wear the very first costume in which she appeared-- the skimpy, black, latex bikini type outfit with the headdress and wing flaps. Everything would be the same as it was in the early days of Storm’s membership, and many fans will be very happy with this choice.

Nightcrawler would be in his original costume as well, but I'm not sure I'd leave his gloves and boots white. While it's not necessary for the other X-Men to be completely stealthy, Nightcrawler is supposed to literally become invisible while in deep shadow. I think I'd change the gloves to the dark red shade that also goes down the center of his costume, just to allow one of his cooler features to actually work.

Colossus doesn't need to wear anything even remotely stealthy. I mean, what the hell are policemen and henchman or whomever else besides a very powerful supervillain going to do to him? Shoot at him? He's Colossus, for God's sake! Red and yellow, like the Russian flag. I even thought up a good reason for him to dress in such a weird fashion; Colossus and Kurt are both immigrants who only first came to America when they were recruited by Xavier. We don’t see it actually shown, but it is implied that Colossus was like a lost lamb and Kurt, being the more outgoing of the two, was sort of a peer role model for him. Nightcrawler came from the circus and is totally into the whole circus costume thing, so Colossus takes a page from his book and wears something of the same basic design as Kurt but with different coloring. As for any “realism” junkies who want to make the invalid claim that nobody would take the big guy seriously in such an outlandish costume, I’d first have to see such a person prove it while face to face with a 7-8 foot metal giant that’s geared up for a fight. Use the right camera angles, destruction effects and Foley sound work during his action scenes and it doesn’t matter how silly he looks; he’ll be impressive as hell, visually.

Kitty Pride would wear a classic gold and dark blue training costume, complete with a cowl (which would be off when she's not in a training session or the final battle)

The movie would begin with a few short scenes of Xavier recruiting Nightcrawler, Wolverine and Colossus, just like in "Giant Size X-Men" #1.
With Wolverine, the scene would be a little bit longer than in that issue, as Xavier would be shown observing Wolverine in a training session (where Wolverine is wearing a slightly more militaristic version of his classic blue, yellow and tiger-striped uniform) before he meets him in General Chasen's office. I prefer this added material because I think the scenario bears fleshing out. Xavier’s not giving a ride to a persecuted pariah (like with with Nightcrawler) or asking some farmers if he can make their civic-minded son a superhero (like with Colossus)— he’s using high-level influence entering a high security clearance military facility in another country and basically drafting their prize soldier without even asking them if it’s okay. That deserves a couple extra minutes, especially since the original scene in the comics was completely devoid of any explanation for why Wolverine accepted an offer from a stranger that had absolutely no details provided. We know that Wolverine didn’t want to stay with Department H, but either they need to make the point clear that he was making a reckless “anywhere but here” decision or they need to have Xavier at least give him a hint (or the scene should hint that Xavier is beaming information directly into Wolverine’s head so he doesn’t have to say any details in front of Chasen) of what he’s being offered and asked for. The last moments of the scene will play out exactly like in the comics, with Gen. Chasen outraged at Xavier’s audacity and Wolverine’s non-existent loyalty and regard for the money and man-hours that went into making him what he is (this does not count the adamantium bonding, as I’m not even sure if Department H was directly involved with that or not, but either way I don’t want it too strongly implied), and Wolverine making it clear that he’s not going to put up with Chasen’s crap anymore. Just like in the comics he slashes General Chasen’s tie, and then he’ll say a line that should get a real kick out of the fans of the 90’s cartoon: “Listen, and listen good, bub; I go where I want to go.”

After the scene with Colossus deciding with his parents that he will go with Xavier to America, the story would skip forward a few years to Kitty Pride stepping out of a taxi cab in front of the Xavier Institute. Unlike in the Singer films where the audience is introduced to watered down versions of the X-Men through the eyes of a watered down Wolverine (who took up far too much screen time with very little payoff while every other X-Man was marginalized), the audience would be introduced to the real X-Men through the eyes of Kitty Pride, and all the X-Men would get their fair share of screen time. Cyclops would be a true, competent leader. Storm would be a strong, formidable second in command as well as a maternal mentor for Kitty (even though she's barely ten years older). Wolverine, Nightcrawler and Colossus would be close friends. Kitty would be frightened by Nightcrawler because of his appearance and Wolverine because of his demeanor, but attracted to Colossus because of both his appearance and demeanor. Wolverine would mentor Kitty in her physical training, just as he did the other members of the team. He'd also spar with Nightcrawler in and out of the Danger Room while wagering beer and he'd pretty much always win.

Cyclops' and Storm's backstories will be fleshed out as needed in the present, with Storm telling hers to Kitty and Cyclops' history being brought up between himself and Xavier.

The villains would be Magneto, the Toad, the Blob, Avalanche and Pyro. Magneto would have a fully faithful costume (from the 90's would work well), but darker in tones. I'm not sure about the Toad, but I know for sure he wouldn't wear a God damn trench coat. The Blob would wear a dark blue or black wrestling outfit, and Pyro would wear a dark red and black Nomex bodysuit with protective goggles and a military flamethrower (as in, hand-held and not wrist-mounted) with strap-on fuel tank. Avalanche would wear shock-absorbing armor and a crash helmet of some kind.

The villain plot would include Magneto and the Brotherhood of Mutants attempting to steal nuclear weapons (and being foiled by the X-Men in the process), and then by the end of the film, they've got an enormous weapon housed on an island that can amplify Magneto’s powers and allow him to cause natural disasters throughout the world. It would end with Magneto almost killing Kitty Pride in a rage (who snuck aboard the Blackbird and wasn't supposed to be there in the first place), realizing what a monster he's become, and disappearing. The Brotherhood would be subdued and incarcerated by the authorities. This is taken from various comics.

I haven't written a script for this yet or developed a specific, coherent plot, but I keep thinking about it. Let me know what your thoughts are.

 

[Herr Logan]

This is an action sequence, obviously. It was a hit with many people here. Some of which have been absent for some time now.

Danger Room scene
________________________________________
Imagine that after Kitty is greeted at the door by Storm, shown to her room and unpacks her things, Storm takes her on a tour of the mansion. After seeing the advanced computer lab (Kitty would be spending a lot of time there), classroom, dining room, recreation room, swimming pool, and library, Kitty takes a nap and ends up phasing through the floor. She wakes up in the subbasement (where all the superhero stuff is), not knowing where she is. She walks along the corridors, checking rooms and looking for someone to help her. She ends up in the Danger Room control center, where Nightcrawler has just finished setting up a training program for himself, Wolverine and Colossus, hoping to decrease his beer debts he owes. He’s all the way to one side of the control booth, and since Kitty doesn’t see him at first, she walks up to the computer banks in front of the viewing window, gazing through the window itself and at TV monitors showing close-ups of the combatants in the much bigger room below.
Nightcrawler notices her presence, turns around and greets her in his typically cheery and friendly tone. This scares Kitty witless and she instinctively runs straight through the computer banks, phasing through the Danger Room’s control center and into the room itself, descending to the floor while running on air. The computer banks are going crazy, since her phasing power disrupts electronics. The training program is in session, with holograms of battle droids hunting Wolverine but leaving Colossus alone for now (he’s doing his own work-out and he feels no need to compete the same way Wolverine and Nightcrawler do). She touches down on the floor and trips in front of Wolverine (in full costume), who says in his gravelly growl, “What are you doing in here? Don’t you know it’s ‘adult swim,’ now?” at the sight of Kitty. He then extends his claws and with a fearsome growl lunges seemingly toward her, destroying a battle droid that was heading straight for her from behind.
She understandably freaks out again and runs away from Wolverine blindly, running toward Colossus who’s currently standing there in his human form (which doesn’t really make any sense at this point given the context, but it sets up a great visual image). As she reaches him, he smiles and says “hello” just as a giant piston press starts descending from above down on both of them. In an instant, Colossus’ body transmutes into a shiny metal form and grows bigger in size. He braces himself and puts up his hands, catching the piston press and holds it up, keeping Kitty from being crushed. Kitty screams and runs again. Storm is now in her winged black bikini-suit and propelling herself through the enormous room with wind, calling out to Kitty to stop moving and to calm down. Kitty sees Storm and is terrified again, not even realizing that the flying creature projecting lighting and wind is the same person she met before and keeps running.
While running across the Danger Room floor, she starts being chased by several of the holographic foes (possibly in the forms of minor X-villains, for maximum cameo exposure) while Wolverine and Nightcrawler are engaged in battle with holographic opponents of their own, Colossus is still holding up the piston press and Storm is trying to zap as many of Kitty’s pursuers as possible. Storm takes out most of them but gets stunned by a battle droid, leaving Kitty on her own against droids and simulacra that are now extremely aggressive and intent on taking her down. Kitty runs to a big set of doors at the end of the room but can’t open it and now can’t concentrate enough to phase through, and the Danger Room’s goons are closing in. Suddenly, the doors open part-way and Cyclops enters through right in front of Kitty. He’s not quite as frightening to look at as the others so far, but he’s still pretty creepy looking, and Kitty is in a total panic either way. She basically falls to the floor with her hands over her head and starts pleading for everyone to leave her alone. Cyclops lets loose several ruby colored optic beams at several of the battle constructs bearing down on Kitty and then one big blast at a final, gargantuan opponent (could even look like Juggernaut… who knows how many cameos you could sneak in?), taking it down and finishing the training sequence. Kitty is still whimpering and pleading for her life in abject terror. Cyclops looks down and doesn’t know what to say. Storm lands on the floor beside Kitty and tries to comfort her. Kitty looks at her and realizes it’s Ororo, the kind young woman who greeted her and took her on the tour. She starts crying in Ororo’s arms while Nightcrawler and Colossus look sadly and guiltily at her. Cyclops grimaces. While sauntering out of the Danger Room, Wolverine passes Cyclops and says in a mockingly disapproving tone, “It ain’t nice to scare little kids, Summers.” Cyclops scowls at him and asks Storm in an authoritative tone what Kitty was doing in the Danger Room in the first place. Nightcrawler, with a dejected look on his face says that he scared her and he didn’t mean to, then quickly teleports out of there. Colossus, with a guilty look on his face walks out of the room, not wanting to make things worse. Storm continues to comfort Kitty and the frightened girl looks up at Cyclops and says “Please tell me you’re the good guys.”
Later on, Kitty enters Xavier’s study and sits in front of his desk. Xavier apologizes for what happened before and talks it over with her, explaining that each of the X-Men meant her no harm and that he hopes in time she will grow to trust them, despite their appearances and frightening abilities. He also says that the Danger Room isn’t always that dangerous even some of the higher settings and that not only was the program not intended for a beginner, her powers disrupted the computers and he believes that’s why the Danger Room became overly aggressive all of a sudden and targeted her.

That’s just something that came to me a while ago. It’s pretty rough, but I think it would work in a movie. Tell me what you think.

 

[Abaddon]

Hmm....

 

[Herr Logan]

Hmm....

I'm gonna need a little more than that, Abby. And by "something a little more," I mean "a good deal." Comments, dammit! Why did you want me to re-post that in the first place?

 

[Abaddon]

I was curious.I like many of your ideas,but have mixed feelings about others.My heads not the right state of mind to provide sufficient commentary,but I'll get back to you on it.

 

[Herr Logan]

I was curious.I like many of your ideas,but have mixed feelings about others.My heads not the right state of mind to provide sufficient commentary,but I'll get back to you on it.

Excellent. Make it soon.

 

[Herr Logan]

Kni-Ton,

I didn't mean to lash out like that. Thinking about it now, I do applaud your intended use of the "reverse bait and switch" as a way to increase pleasure with viewing, although I don't agree with the specific proposal. Certain points in your explanation sounded to me like deliberately anti-fan sentiment and I got defensive.

You definitely have interesting ideas (including the one about H.E.R.B.I.E. as a school project for Reed), and if you have further thoughts you'd like to express, you are welcome to post them. I will try my damnedest to keep my critical bastard nature under control.

Actually, here's an idea: Cullen, it's your job to post a comment that is... characteristic of yourself... immediately after Kni-ton posts anything. That'll allow me to vent my frustrations in a harmless (in all ways that matter) fashion without discouraging our new member.

Okay, I now understand why you had such an accurate picture of my philosophies for a "new member" and why you've been silent for the last day or so.
Regardless of all that, if you do decide to come back, whatever name it's under, you're welcome to post more of your thoughts. Be advised, however, that though we had conflicting views on Movie!Doom before the release of 'Fantastic Four' and still possibly have conflicting views, the majority of regular posters here and underlying philosophy of this thread is dead-set against the abominable joke that was Movie!Doom. If your ideal version of Doom is in any concievable way more similar to Movie!Doom from Fox's calamity than to the real Doctor Doom, that's automatically going to be frowned upon. It's nothing personal, and I do want this thread to be mostly free of arguments, but I mean it when I say this is about proposing both quality and faithful adaptations of these characters. Movie!Doom was not faithful, period. To suggest that he was is most certainly an argument to be made elsewhere.

That includes that stupid trenchcoat in place of a regal robe/cloak/cape. I'm going to remind everyone again that I've been wearing a trencoat (in suitable weather) since I saw the movie 'Blade,' so I understand the appeal as well as anyone else. However, Blade was a complete nobody who could only benefit from the badass makeover they gave him in the movie, but you cannot, in the eyes of a true fan, make someone as badass as Doctor Doom "cooler" or in any way better than the real deal by giving him a trenchcoat that merely resembles his original robe from the chest up and no armor. Its presence onscreen even for a second is a waste of time and resources.

That pic right there is more faithful than Movie!Doom. Yes, even though the design deviates much further. How does that work? Well, even if that robe thing looks a bit trenchcoatesque and has gold trim, Doom is completely encased in armor, which automatically makes him a million times closer to the real deal. Even if they only changed the collar to a hood and told me there was a reasonably general concensus that this costume would "work better onscreen" than a 100% faithful design, I'd probably take it (although I'd have no compunctions at all about changing it to a shoulder-hanging cloak instead of a coat-like garment). It's not some tasteless, trendy piece of crap meant to pay lip service to the real deal while expecting me to forget he's not wearing armor and that he's got real superpowers. The armor even has ancient-looking patterns on it, pulling the look of it back toward the middle ages. That's the kind of style a movie version of Doom should have, not some lowest-common-denominator, bastard, half-breed trenchcoat that's Dr. Doom from the chest up and that pansy-ass Neo from 'The Matrix' from the chest down. Long live the real Doctor Doom!

*achem*

Anyway, with that rant on hold for the time being, here's hoping you come back soon. Even if we disagree and I dig my heels in hard, you know I won't dismiss you the way those plebeians in other threads do, based on age or anything else. And nobody who doesn't have an insatiable hunger for their own humiliation will do that in here, either. Count on it.

 

[Herr Logan]

I was curious.I like many of your ideas,but have mixed feelings about others.My heads not the right state of mind to provide sufficient commentary,but I'll get back to you on it.

Well??!

 

[Abaddon]

I sort of like the idea.However I don't like overlooking the originals.I think it'd be best to have cast of some characters from both incarnations.It'd be odd having Scott there without Jean.The recruiting part I find a little off-putting because it implies that its Xaviers first team.I'd have them all were pretty dark verions of their original costumes if I were going that route.I always imagined X-men to be a covert team,so it wouldnt make much sense to have them all in bright colors.Realistically Pyro's fuel tank could prove disastrous,if not uncomfortable so I'd have him use something more practical.

Another thing,I think Magneto's motivations need to be made clear.I think in Singers movie,the reasons behind Magnus's actions were made very clear.I also don't like his premature(IMHO) redemption.I also had an idea for the latter part of the story I posted earlier where Kitty sneaks aboard the Blackbird.Psychic theif!

 

[Herr Logan]

Whoops.I'll get right on it.

Thank ye kindly.

Meanwhile, I've been pontificating in one of your threads. Again. Don't let it distract you from what's important.

 

[Herr Logan]

I sort of like the idea.However I don't like overlooking the originals.I think it'd be best to have cast of some characters from both incarnations.It'd be odd having Scott there without Jean.The recruiting part I find a little off-putting because it implies that its Xaviers first team.

I suppose Jean Grey and maybe Beast could be a part of the team. I didn't want Jean there originally because it stretches the screen time even more. I didn't want the Beast there because the powers he brings to the table are already supplied by Colossus and Nightcrawler, and I really wanted those characters there. Truthfully, I like the Beast more than either of them (especially Colossus, whose only real value is that he works extremely well with the team roster I listed), but the balanced team I had in mind didn't need him.

There would have been mention in my original idea at some point, by Xavier and/or Cyclops, that there were X-Men before Xavier recruited the new members.

I'd have them all were pretty dark verions of their original costumes if I were going that route.I always imagined X-men to be a covert team,so it wouldnt make much sense to have them all in bright colors.Realistically Pyro's fuel tank could prove disastrous,if not uncomfortable so I'd have him use something more practical.

...

Is this that "realism" crap again? Please, Abaddon, tell me that you don't really believe that characters like Cyclops, Storm and Colossus can operate as X-Men and actually operate undetected. There is no stealth once those mutants start using their powers. The trademark of the X-Men is that you can always tell where they've been, and when they're fighting other mutants (which is their purpose as a team), there is no "covert" about it. Superheroes vs. supervillains. It doesn't matter how stealthy their costumes are, they're going to be seen and heard no matter what.

As for Pyro's fuel tank, I don't see how that's not practical. What else is there? A real life flamethrower designed for long-term use would have a fuel tank. That's how they make them, and that's what Pyro needs to do what he does. I thought that by downgrading his wrist-mounted flamethrowers to a traditional military-grade one would be enough to satisfy this mystifying craving for "realism" people have with regard to superhero movies, but I guess I was wrong.

Another thing,I think Magneto's motivations need to be made clear.I think in Singers movie,the reasons behind Magnus's actions were made very clear.I also don't like his premature(IMHO) redemption.I also had an idea for the latter part of the story I posted earlier where Kitty sneaks aboard the Blackbird.Psychic theif!

If I made a movie about the second generation of X-Men, I'd make it clear that not only were there earlier X-Men, but that Magneto has fought them before. Magneto's reasons for his acts of terrorism would be well-explained, and unlike in Singer's movies, he'd have a traditional plan of action that lays somewhere in between changing world leaders into mutants and killing all human beings on the planet: kill some and threaten to kill a lot more unless humans concede power to him.

Nobody stole your idea about Kitty sneaking aboard the Blackbird. That happened in the comics at least once and also in that "Pryde of the X-Men" cartoon that was supposed to be a pilot for a show that didn't get made.

And how am I blackmailing you?

 

[Zev]

And how am I blackmailing you?

Blackmail is such an ugly word. I prefer extortion. The X makes it sound cool!

 

[Herr Logan]

Blackmail is such an ugly word. I prefer extortion. The X makes it sound cool!

I don't actually pay for X-Men comics anymore, but I could see a crappy story arc (the only kind they still make) called "X-tortion." It would be a 6-part arc with really crappy writing.

 

[Abaddon]

I suppose Jean Grey and maybe Beast could be a part of the team. I didn't want Jean there originally because it stretches the screen time even more. I didn't want the Beast there because the powers he brings to the table are already supplied by Colossus and Nightcrawler, and I really wanted those characters there. Truthfully, I like the Beast more than either of them (especially Colossus, whose only real value is that he works extremely well with the team roster I listed), but the balanced team I had in mind didn't need him.

There would have been mention in my original idea at some point, by Xavier and/or Cyclops, that there were X-Men before Xavier recruited the new members.



...

Is this that "realism" crap again? Please, Abaddon, tell me that you don't really believe that characters like Cyclops, Storm and Colossus can operate as X-Men and actually operate undetected. There is no stealth once those mutants start using their powers. The trademark of the X-Men is that you can always tell where they've been, and when they're fighting other mutants (which is their purpose as a team), there is no "covert" about it. Superheroes vs. supervillains. It doesn't matter how stealthy their costumes are, they're going to be seen and heard no matter what.

As for Pyro's fuel tank, I don't see how that's not practical. What else is there? A real life flamethrower designed for long-term use would have a fuel tank. That's how they make them, and that's what Pyro needs to do what he does. I thought that by downgrading his wrist-mounted flamethrowers to a traditional military-grade one would be enough to satisfy this mystifying craving for "realism" people have with regard to superhero movies, but I guess I was wrong.



If I made a movie about the second generation of X-Men, I'd make it clear that not only were there earlier X-Men, but that Magneto has fought them before. Magneto's reasons for his acts of terrorism would be well-explained, and unlike in Singer's movies, he'd have a traditional plan of action that lays somewhere in between changing world leaders into mutants and killing all human beings on the planet: kill some and threaten to kill a lot more unless humans concede power to him.

Nobody stole your idea about Kitty sneaking aboard the Blackbird. That happened in the comics at least once and also in that "Pryde of the X-Men" cartoon that was supposed to be a pilot for a show that didn't get made.

And how am I blackmailing you?

It was a joke.And you seem edgy.Go take a nap.

 

[Herr Logan]

It was a joke.And you seem edgy.Go take a nap.

1. I don't get the joke, therefore it needs explaining, or else it's a failure.

2. Edgy? Me?? No...

3. Maybe later.

 

[Abaddon]

I must be lagging.I thought I responded to this already.

1.Its random.Its not supposed to make sense,therefore it needs no explanation.

2.Switch to decaf.

3.Chocolate chips

 

[Herr Logan]

I must be lagging.I thought I responded to this already.

1.Its random.Its not supposed to make sense,therefore it needs no explanation.

2.Switch to decaf.

3.Chocolate chips

1. Unacceptable.

2. I don't drink coffee.

3. Excellent.

 

[Saph]

Is this that "realism" crap again?

Long time no see, Herr.

I don't understand your hatred of realism. Realism is a great way of connecting the audience to a story. What is more compelling: Charles Xavier, arguably the most powerful telapath alive, confined to a wheelchair, or Charles Xavier, arguably the most powerful telapath alive, confined to a futuristic hovercraft?

Let me direct you to Terminator 2. It involves time travel and Cyborgs, (one of which can morph itself into basic weapons). Yet the story is told in a realistic manner.

Are you sure it's realism you dislike, or 'realism' being used as an excuse to put the X-Men in black leather?

 

[Herr Logan]

Long time no see, Herr.

Yeah, about 12 days.

I don't understand your hatred of realism. Realism is a great way of connecting the audience to a story. What is more compelling: Charles Xavier, arguably the most powerful telapath alive, confined to a wheelchair, or Charles Xavier, arguably the most powerful telapath alive, confined to a futuristic hovercraft?

Let me direct you to Terminator 2. It involves time travel and Cyborgs, (one of which can morph itself into basic weapons). Yet the story is told in a realistic manner.

Are you sure it's realism you dislike, or 'realism' being used as an excuse to put the X-Men in black leather?

I dislike it being used as an excuse to water down good stories and glorify crappy movies. I do like a certain level of realism, but never to the point that it turns classic comic book characters into something they aren't, or at least never would have been if sh1tty writers/artists hadn't been given opportunities they didn't deserve.

Again, there are certain examples of using "realism" to make a classic idea even better, two of which even come from the mediocre Spider-Man franchise: 1) the reasoning behind the Goblin formula's existence; 2) Octavius' tentacle harness connecting directly to the central nervous system.

At the same time, they completely bastardized the character of Spider-Man by giving him idiotic organic webshooters and kept him from wisecracking for almost the entirety of both movies, all under the pathetic label of "realism." There's nothing at all realistic about organic webshooters, and there is no possible way to accurately say whether a fictional character as unique as Spider-Man would "realistically" be making jokes in the heat of battle or not. That's the kind of bull$hit that I hate.

 

[Saph]

Yeah, about 12 days.

I see you have found out my dirty little secret..

I dislike it being used as an excuse to water down good stories and glorify crappy movies. I do like a certain level of realism, but never to the point that it turns classic comic book characters into something they aren't, or at least never would have been if sh1tty writers/artists hadn't been given opportunities they didn't deserve.

Again, there are certain examples of using "realism" to make a classic idea even better, two of which even come from the mediocre Spider-Man franchise: 1) the reasoning behind the Goblin formula's existence; 2) Octavius' tentacle harness connecting directly to the central nervous system.

At the same time, they completely bastardized the character of Spider-Man by giving him idiotic organic webshooters and kept him from wisecracking for almost the entirety of both movies, all under the pathetic label of "realism." There's nothing at all realistic about organic webshooters, and there is no possible way to accurately say whether a fictional character as unique as Spider-Man would "realistically" be making jokes in the heat of battle or not. That's the kind of bull$hit that I hate.

Completely agree. But, it seems you hate realism as an excuse, not realism itself.

Herr, I suggest you frequent the Superman Returns boards. The way the movie is going, I think it'll be right up your alley.

-It's not afraid to be over-the-top.

-It is very true to the comic book.

-The plot is ambitous and not cookie-cutter.

Also, there are a lot of idiots on the board to destroy.

 

[Zev]

I see you have found out my dirty little secret..

Completely agree. But, it seems you hate realism as an excuse, not realism itself.

Well, that only makes sense. I mean, you wouldn't expect Punisher!realism to have much in common with, say, GreenLantern!realism (I imagine quite a few people would give you funny looks if you said Frank Castle should fight John Evilos Luciferan).

 

[The Batman]

X-Men Franchise

Premise: The Universe I want to Create for the X-Men is based on the Stan Lee comics, the Claremont era, A little of Mark Millar’s Ultimate X-Men, and Joss Whedon’s Astonishing. The Universe would be realistic, to a degree, as these are comic book movies. It would mainly be a trilogy of movies, and then the next three might cover other characters. I’d make sure EVERYONE got equal time and focus. The great thing about X-Men is that most of their characters are great for movies. I want to make sure everyone shines, and not just Logan, though he is the introductory character for the first film. Plot wise and Story wise, the X-Films have a lot going for it, but they mess up with the characters and characterizations. So, here’s my idea for the first movie:

X-Men

*The movie begins with a voice over from Professor X. Then, we’re introduced to Logan, former member of Department H. He has no memory of how he got his adamantium skeleton or claws. Then, he runs into Rogue, who’s using her powers to steal money. We find out that Rogue’s friend is secretly Mystique, who’s using rogue to commit crimes. Logan and Rogue get saved by Cyclops, Storm, and Jean Grey. When they reach the mansion, they get introduced to Charles Xavier, the leading expert in mutation and the mutant phenomenon, and also billionaire heir to the Xavier fortune. The X-Men at this point are Cyclops, Storm, Jean, Beast, and Iceman. Beast is mostly a scientist, however, often choosing to stay at the mansion during missions.

*Cyclops: A mix of the Claremont version and the Ultimate version. He’s an excellent leader, Tactical Genius and Strategist. He’s a bit restrained and doesn’t always show his emotions. He doesn’t want Logan out in the field because he’s reckless and doesn’t follow orders. At this point, he and Jean aren’t dating yet, but before Logan came, he was about to get to that point. He’s always the one who makes the difficult choices, and sometimes the X-Men are annoyed that he’s always right. He’s a staunch supporter of Xavier’s dream.

*Wolverine: The Logan we all know and love. Rough, tough, hairy, and emotionally scarred. He can’t remember how or why he got his trademark claws. He wandered the Canadian wilderness until Department H captured and recruited him. Unhappy, he escaped and traveled, until he meets the X-Men. At first, he doesn’t care for Xavier, or the X-Men, except for Jean, who he’s infatuated with. By the end, however, he comes to accept the X-Men and joins them. His story is just a subplot in the film.

Marvel Girl: I’ve never found Jean to be all that interesting, so she’s mainly like the Ultimate Version of Jean, except more mature. Cyclops is in love with her, and she loves Cyclops, but they can’t bring themselves to admit it. They’re about to take the next step, until Wolverine comes in. Now she’s wondering about Logan. In the end, she chooses Cyclops. Her skills are good, but they haven’t reached their full potential.

Storm: The Weather Goddess Warrior of the comics, she’s Cyclops’ second in command. Unlike Scott, she’s more of a born leader, and she’s very much the den mother of the X-Men. In the film, there’s a flashback to her origin, and her main subplot is about her claustrophobia. Over the film, she and Logan form a special kind of friendship.

Rogue: In the film, she’s a runaway who left her home after kissing a boy and draining his energy. She explains that she ran into a woman named Raven, and to survive, she started stealing money and food. At first, the X-Men don’t trust her, even though Xavier says she has a good heart. She’s put into the “New Mutants” team with Shadowcat and Colossus.

Beast: The Scientist of the X-Men. He makes the technology the X-Men uses as well. He’s pretty much like the comics version.

Iceman: He’s the comic version, basically. The youngest X-Man, he and Rogue start flirting a bit. In the first movie, he can’t ice up, but as the trilogy goes on, we’ll finally reveal the moment when he’s pure ice.

New Mutants: Colossus, Rogue, and Shadowcat. Their role in the film isn’t that big, but they’re mainly seen training for actually field combat.

*The Main villains are the Brotherhood, which are Magneto, Mystique, Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, Toad, and Sabertooth. They’re essentially terrorists, attacking major public places. Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch mainly aid their father because they don’t want him to go to far. Sabertooth has a history with Wolverine that’s explained. The main plot is Magneto’s machine that can destroy the human race, powered by magneto’s energy.

*Senator Kelly is a major player in the movie. He’s running for president. If he wins, he’s expected to try and pass an act on mutants. Magneto wants to kill Kelly so that it doesn’t happen. When the X-Men save him at the end, he realizes that maybe mutants aren’t so evil.

*The big battle at the end happens at Magneto’s base, Asteroid M. Wolverine fights Sabertooth, Beast fights toad, and Cyclops, Storm, and Jean fight Quicksilver, Scarlet Witch, and Mystique. Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch betray their father, turning good. Magneto goes to prison and Asteroid M crashes to earth.

 

[The Batman]

Costumes

Cyclops: Current Astonishing outfit.

Wolverine: Brown and Tan outft, except the Tan is Black.

Storm: Current Outfit

Jean: Her original X Factor costume

Beast: Ultimate X-Men suit.

Iceman: Ultimate X-Men suit, Non Iced up.

Rogue: Dark Green and white clothing

 

[zanos]

Here's what I've found so far. This chunk of text mainly addresses costumes, team roster, some opening scenes and some of the character relationships:

Sounds a bit like the opening for Pryde of the X-Men.

 

[Herr Logan]

I see you have found out my dirty little secret..

You let the cat out of the bag pretty publically.

Completely agree. But, it seems you hate realism as an excuse, not realism itself.

I suppose that would be a good way to phrase it. Also, I hate people's false ideas of what constitute realism. Almost anything that the studio calls "realistic" is complete bull$hit, and thus it is with what many people on these boards say as well.

Herr, I suggest you frequent the Superman Returns boards. The way the movie is going, I think it'll be right up your alley.

-It's not afraid to be over-the-top.

-It is very true to the comic book.

-The plot is ambitous and not cookie-cutter.

Also, there are a lot of idiots on the board to destroy.

I'm not in favor of what I know about this movie. They've turned Superman into a complete, unforgivable moron with the part where he neglects his duty to testify against Lex Luthor so he can go take a look at billions of tons of floating Kryptonite where his parents used to be. Especially if this is supposed to take place after 'Superman 2' where Superman told the president he wouldn't let him down again. I could not care less how "vaguely" this movie is connected with that series, because any version of Superman wouldn't have fu<ked up this badly unless it was a cheap way to raise comics sales with a "shocking event." A movie should portray the essence of the character (and I absolutely do not mean that in the way that pro-studio sheep mean it when they say it's okay for Spider-Man to not make jokes or build web-shooters), not the exceptions in his behavior over 60+ years. What I mean to say by "essence" is that the portrayal should be representative of the totality of the character's behavior. Superman is almost always responsible and acts on behalf of people who can't defend themselves from people like Lex Luthor. He doesn't leave the world hanging just so he can have a few whistful moments light in the midst of an intergalatic road trip that takes several years. That's bull$hit and I will never, ever accept that as a valid basis for a Superman movie. There's nothing to me more "interesting" or "three dimensional" about showing Superman to be a complete screw-up to this degree, so I don't want to hear one God damn comment about how he's always shown as "too perfect" or "two dimensional." Anything the public perceives Superman as doing wrong should be a misinterpretation on the public's part, not some inconceivably monumental fu<k-up from what is supposed to be the world's greatest superhero.

I'm not in favor of Lois having a child when Superman comes back, period. There is no argument tat can give me the slightest bit of interest in this matter, much less change my mind, so do not make excuses here. In fact, do not make excuses for anything in any movie without offering at least an equivalent number of criticisms, with at least as much time spent on the latter as the former. That's a natural law of this thread, not a suggestion.

Also, there is nothing in this world that will ever make me accept the costume, and if they can't get the costume to look good on an actor who is big enough and almost buff enough to play the part, they've already utterly failed. The costume is simplicity incarnate, and they chose to screw it up. There is no excuse, and I don't want to hear anything that sounds like one with regard to this issue.

I'm not sure who exactly you're referring to when you say "idiots," but if it's the so-called "haters," then you can be sure I'm not going to speak out against them. As far as the ovine sycophants that sing the praises of Singer to their dying breath, there's no point in fighting with them. It's not as much fun for me to fight pointless battles as it once was. That's one reason I created this thread, so that those of us who know better and want better can talk about what would be better without interference from wool-growing troglodytes who can't think for themselves or form an analytical opinion.