Scott vs. Jean wouldn't have worked.

[ginny_weasley]

it was never about Scott vs. Jean or Phoenix vs. Scott... it was Scott who helped ground Jean and gave her the strength she needed to make the ultimate sacrifice, her life.

Thank you. Could not have said it better myself.

 

[ZombieONE]

Scott vs. Jean wouldn't have worked.

it did in the comics--anything can work if you're creative enough.

 

[D-scythe]

Again, the argument Scott and Jean wouldn't have worked is circular and simply illogical. If Phoenix "had this emotional connection" with Logan and didn't vaporize him instantly just like everything else (and no, not even his healing factor would've saved him), then Phoenix isn't going to vaporize Scott either during that scene.

Plus, they coulda rewrote the scene a hundred different ways to make it more plausible for Scott to make it to Jean. The whole X3 movie was heavily biased towards Logan from the get go.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

what do u think of my idea? ...

 

[ANTARISS]

Hi Guy's I'm new to the board so go easy on me (even though I've been visiting the hype boards for the last three years or so) and if anyone call's me a newbie I'll go Berserker Rage on em.

Back to business...I agree that Scott vs Jean could have worked and I was initially bummed that Logan replaced Scott as the last man standing with Jean/Phoenix when she died but I fully understand the reasons the scriptwriter's went there. Film language is a different animal to comic's and the protagonist must tie solidly into the last act, having Cyclop's come out of nowhere with optic blast's would make audience members go WTF and make a far fetched scene look even more silly. Wolverine is the star of the movie like it or not.

On the other hand, from a certain point of view, Scott was there with Jean/Phoenix (Jeanix?) at the end as the inner turmoil between the two personas in her head was triggered by her wasting Scott to begin with (unless you believe he lives) hence when she asked Logan to kill her in the lab. This is also shown when at her old house, Professor X mentions that she killed Scott and at that point she goes ballistic, which tells me that the Jean part of her is in grief and wants to die because of what she did. So Wolverine was playing the physical part of killing her as she was leading him to her all along.

Hope this makes sense, will try to keep the post's shorter.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

Welcome to the hype

 

[Angry Sentinel]

someone may have responded to this, but we don't see his body, because he she killed him, there would be no body. Remember Jean is disintergrating, did Prof X have a body left, or any of the soldiers/mutants killed at Alcatraz.

She could have been knocked out for using the powers for the 1st time.

Well, to be fair, the clues he lists are just a few of the reasons that I believe Cyclops is still alive....

- The writer's were given specific 'parameters' during the writing of the screenplay, well before James Mardsen's availability was known. Why is it described as 'parameters'.If you're going to nuke a character, and everybody has seen the movie, why use the word 'parameters' to describe your instructions, after the movie has been seen.

- the woman that came out of the lake was obviously Phoenix, and she was not at all PISSED at Cyke. She requested to see his eyes, she was wild, horny, and a little strange, but not crazy or pissed! Why kill him?

- When the supposed 'leaked script' came out, the reviewer specifically said that the script said she 'accidentally' vaporizes Scott in a moment of 'PASSION'. I'm almost positive the reviewer went on to mention that there was some 'other' details but this is basically the bottom line in this scene. If you think about what was in the movie, again I point out, that she was not 'PISSED' off at all. And the 'other' details they refered to could be the fact the script mentions that we don't see him getting dusted, his glasses were off, the laws of gravity being wasted after the event. This may be a little obscure, but in hindsight I do believe it's relevant.

- The same woman had the exact same interaction with Logan, just a few hours later at the mansion. She kisses Logan, and during the kiss gets so into it that she wounds Logan on his back (now imagine that same passion with Cyke, and no healing factor. Could her control over his CONCUSSION blast have slipped? Could the pain she caused him make him go into fight mode and she didn't see his CONCUSSION blast coming? Now imagine that she immediately puts up tk blast that opposes his strike. And if she would be knocked back and probably out, and the lake would be flash boiled and turned to mist, then poor Cyke would be severly injured, but since she was probably not attacking him couldn't he still be alive. Why no body? well, did anyone think to look UP? Everything else was floating upward, given that fact, Cyke's body could have easily been in a tree, couldn't it? It's not like they spent a ton of time looking.). Even after logan pulls away, questions her, and brings the 'old Jean' to the surface, she still doesn't mindlessly kill him...why? He obviously did way more than Cyke did to piss her off.

- Xavier, who this woman and possible the other persona clearly has issue with, does not get killed at the mansion. Even though this persona is highly upset at him, she walks right past him and leaves him be. She clearly has a good reason to vaporize him instantly yet she doesn't. Even when Xavier shows up, she states that she knew he was coming, she ONLY kills him after he will not let up from trying to put her back in the cage. This crazy wild woman, only kills this guy after he is insistant on getting in her head and putting back up those mental blocks... he not only tried to cage the beast... he cornered the beast. When did Cyke do any of this?

- Why did the writer/ director/ editors choose to show us EVERYONE this woman disintegrates, except supposedly Cyclops. And even her declaration that she killed him, doesn't come from the Phoenix persona. It comes from a confused Jean Grey, who still never actually says I killed him. She just seems to have a sense that she feels like she did. The scenes that flash during her memory returning never show us a clear picture of him getting dusted. Even the Phoenix persona never really confirms this action. Again why so vague about this particular supposed death, when they clearly show prof X, tons of soldiers, psylocke, arclight, and quill getting, ashed? At the very least I think anyone with a brain can see it was done intentionally, so you have to ask yourself, why?


I know, it may all be stretching, but there was very little for me in this movie in the way of deeply planned, or well thought out moments. So I'm trying hard to suppose what could be a very good one.

 

[ANTARISS]

I think the time may have come for us fan's to realise that what we may see as sacred is clearly not to the filmmakers and studio. This is not to say that they aren't being faithful to the source material, but that decisions have to be made based on a bunch of factor's and with Cyclops it seems it was a practical one of the actor's availability. My question is would people prefer that they recast the character, I for one would not as I think James Marsden clocked in his best performance of the series in the brief but significant scenes that he had. The character's worth should not be weighed solely on screen time or what scene he's in but the quality of the what he does on screen. Cyclops clearly got shafted in the first two movies (especially X2) by which this time the damage may have already been done in terms of the character's movie profile.

Any comments? I'm new I need affirmation

 

[LEX]

The whole scene was written ONLY for Wolverine. I'm sure they could re-write the scene to fit with Cyclops' boundaries. They even tweaked and recreated Wolverine's healing ability rolleyes.

 

[ANTARISS]

The whole scene was written ONLY for Wolverine. I'm sure they could re-write the scene to fit with Cyclops' boundaries. They even tweaked and recreated Wolverine's healing ability rolleyes.

I agree with this comment in as much as if Cyclops was the main protagonist/hero/character of the film he would have been written in that position. However, even with respect to Marsden's availability and the boundaries the studio gave the writer's, it would steal from the main character's (Wolverine's) role to have the single most important act and arc of the movie performed by in movie terms a secondary character who has been absent through the majority of the film (or series).

With Wolvie's healing factor, I think I read a good argument on these board's that Jean was boosting his healing factor whilst simultaneously pulling him apart as Phoenix which demostrated her inner battle of wanting to live and cause chaos(Phoenix) and wanting to be killed and put out of her misery(Jean).

 

[Angry Sentinel]

bumpage... no takers?

 

[HailtotheKing]

That's the problem, Wolverine shouldn't have been the movies most important character. I know they had to be thinking of Wolverine spin off films after the first film so why make him the main character for the X-Men films and then the only character for his own movies. It's stupid.

 

[ANTARISS]

Good point, but every film needs a hero to root for and I guess they figured Wolverine is the most popular X-character to revolve the franchise around. I wished they'd kept the Weapon x stuff for a Wolverine spin-off so X2 could have featured more characters getting a chancew to shine. I found it a bit convenient that everything was linked to Wolverine - Stryker, Alkali Lake,etc - felt a bit forced. Yet everyone says that X2 was the best of the series even with its overemphasis on Wolverine's arc and even less Cyclops. By the way what constitutes as bumpage around here?

 

[phillip phonix]

i put something on phonix image about scot, im new and dont know how to post comments from other threads but my step dad worked on this film and ive seen someseens from the film that were never put in with phonix and scot

 

[Retroman]

Scott vs. Jean wouldn't have worked.

Neither did Wolverine vs Jean despite how touching that scene was. How the heck did he survive that? It would have been fitting to let both Jean ánd Logan die in that scene.

 

[HailtotheKing]

Exactly, having Wolverine's backstory be revealed by the second film is just incredibily lame. Now that we know pretty much everything about the movie-verse Wolverine whats even the point of making spin off films? So he can go on bloodless bezerker rages on nameless mutants? Why?

 

[D-scythe]

With Wolvie's healing factor, I think I read a good argument on these board's that Jean was boosting his healing factor whilst simultaneously pulling him apart as Phoenix which demostrated her inner battle of wanting to live and cause chaos(Phoenix) and wanting to be killed and put out of her misery(Jean).

Absolutely no proof of that. Clearly Phoenix was in control of "Jean" at the time, so either Phoenix didn't want to kill Wolverine instantly or the script was biased towards Wolverine. I suspect the latter.

 

[Mekleo33]

Howdy

You know EVERYTHING about his movie verse? It was hinted at in X-1 he could be very well be older then Prof X. He's got an awesome story to tell his becomeing Weapon X is late in his lifetime I mean he met Captain America in WW 1. The guy has been around for centuries there must be more story there.

Mek

 

[Jan Irisi]

Exactly, having Wolverine's backstory be revealed by the second film is just incredibily lame. Now that we know pretty much everything about the movie-verse Wolverine whats even the point of making spin off films? So he can go on bloodless bezerker rages on nameless mutants? Why?

Only a small portion of Wolverine's past was revealed. All that was revealed was the person responsible for giving him his metal claws and skeleton. We don't know why. We don't know what Wolverine did before that point.

 

[Daniella]

I think that the latter too...

Wel. i say that they should do a spin off whi only Jean and Scott ( being back from the dead... that is, if he really is dead... )

PS: 2,000 posts !!! Yeah...

Danyl

 

[Darthphere]

Neither did Wolverine vs Jean despite how touching that scene was. How the heck did he survive that? It would have been fitting to let both Jean ánd Logan die in that scene.

Why did you quote me saying somehting I didnt say.

 

[javon]

Some people say (and i agree) that JEAN likes CYCLOPS and PHOENIX likes WOLVERINE. Now the only reason they say that the phoenix likes wolverine is because he's the bad type like her (in x3's case).

 

[SKSpawn]

Haven't bothered reading the other replies to this, but the other day I mulled this over and thought of a way to resolve the Cyclops/Wolverine rivalry and involve Cyke in the end as well.

Tying into the whole team work thing, having Scott live and arrive for the final battle, he and Wolverine team up. Scott says he's the only one who can talk Jean down or talk sense into her and he needs Wolverine to provide cover so, essentially, Wolverine would be Cyclops's human shield.

The ending would be exactly the same except Wolverine would get blasted away by Pheonix, leaving Scott and Jean.

Jean: You'd die for them?

Scott: No...Not for them...For you...I love you...

Jean comes through Pheonix, Scott whips his shades off and there's a big explosion that takes them both, stopping Pheonix, giving Cyclops a heroic self-sacrifice, keeping Jean/Scott's love alive and resolving the conflict between him and Logan.

But I'm just as happy with the film as it was, just thought they could have tried an alternate way that kept Scott in the loop.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

...erm... I like my other idea.

 

[Darknightnomis]

The reason why the "Dark Phoneix saga" is so popular and revered is because the Relationship with Scott and Jean WORKS so well.

It could've worked on screen also. they just wanted these movies to be a vehicle for Wolverine.