Should Batman be in the JL film?

[Selene]

What kind of question is that?? Of course he should, he is part of the Trinity, Batman, Superman, and Wonderwoman, you can't even think of a Justice League without Batman.. Thats like saying The Xmen without Professor X

 

[darwinwins]

christ, this movie's gonna suck.

 

[The Question]

I think we all learn a very important lesson here never piss off a batman fan.

Hulk fans are worse.

Dude thats exactly what I meant. But they should do it smart so at the end of the day the league can really use his abilities that is his resources and detective skills to put the finishing blow on the enemy. Like I said everyone will confront the villains head on while batman with his detective skills should try to find their weakness and incorporate it into his gadgets which he can use to not make it look like he is completely useless in a battle. Your limiting batmans abilities and that in my book is very wrong.

The thing is, they don't need his detective skills. They already have J'onn, who's been at the detective game longer than Batman's been alive and is also psychic. And honestly, about incorperating the villains' weaknesses into his gadgets, I really don't want to see Bruce show up with an ANti-Darkseid batarang at any point. Having Bruce being able, somehow, to create an inginious weapon that can take down a powerful cosmic entity and then compact it so it will fit on his belt would look fairly ridiculous, and would basically be truning Bruce into a deus ex machina character. That's worse than limiting his abilities, I think.

Hey, it makes sense. When you use that logic, the Justice League numbers become seriously limited.

No they don't, because that wasn't the logic I was using.

 

[Steelsheen]

So, by that definition, we wouldnt need flash, because superman's almost as fast, and has more experience

we wouldnt need wonder woman because MM can read minds so we dont need her lasso of truth, and superman's much stronger than her

We dont need Superman either....because MM can do what superman does...and more.

so that would leave MM, GL, and Aquaman....and no offense, but that wouldnt leave a fun JL movie...at all...

in other words, MM is the entire Justice League unto himself

This is the most stupidest post I've ever read.

ever heard of sarcasm?

 

[GL1]

Sigh, so obviously Batman is in the movie because he's the most well connected...

We're saying that his interogation skills are redundant because Martian Manhunter can just pluck information out of minds? Well, beyond the possibility of J'onn not being around when an interoggation is needed, consider that if J'onn can pluck information out of anyone at anytime, this will be a VERY short movie? "Oh, who's behind it?" "Dr. Evil... he's in the bathroom... I'm uploading his coordinates to your minds now..."

But we all know Batman needs a combat role of some sort, however slight it may be. There's always the Bat-jet flying into action and blowing crap up. But consider the idea that Batman may simply need to do some butt whooping of some sort while others are preocupied...

Or the fact that, for the sake of the team, MM has to be limited on some level (as he always is) whether it be being weakened initially or captured by the government or whatever... but the movie can't start out with MM at full power or else the whole premise will be unbelievable...

And even when MM is up at full speed in the finale, Batman (with Jet) is still another body/disraction to throw at the problem. And he is also the funnest character to have outsmart the villain... by far.

 

[Katsuro]

Not to mention that someone has to bankroll the Justice League. My favorite moments of JLU were always when the League would destroy something and Superman would be like "dont worry, we'll pay for it" then look over at Bruce.

 

[The Question]

Sigh, so obviously Batman is in the movie because he's the most well connected...

We're saying that his interogation skills are redundant because Martian Manhunter can just pluck information out of minds? Well, beyond the possibility of J'onn not being around when an interoggation is needed, consider that if J'onn can pluck information out of anyone at anytime, this will be a VERY short movie? "Oh, who's behind it?" "Dr. Evil... he's in the bathroom... I'm uploading his coordinates to your minds now..."

And why does a majority of the movie have to be spent trying to figure out who's behind what's going on?

But we all know Batman needs a combat role of some sort, however slight it may be. There's always the Bat-jet flying into action and blowing crap up. But consider the idea that Batman may simply need to do some butt whooping of some sort while others are preocupied...

I don't see why Batman has to have such an important role. Can't he just be a side character in a movie that's not about him?

Or the fact that, for the sake of the team, MM has to be limited on some level (as he always is) whether it be being weakened initially or captured by the government or whatever... but the movie can't start out with MM at full power or else the whole premise will be unbelievable...

First of all, J'onn isn't always limited. I can't even think of many times that he has been. And second, why does he have to be? He may be more versitile than his teammates, but that doesn't make him a deus ex machina. That's what I'd like to avoid with Batman.

Really, your entire arguement seems to be elaning to the idea that J'onn should be tonned down and Bruce should be tonned up because Batman is "cooler."

Not to mention that someone has to bankroll the Justice League. My favorite moments of JLU were always when the League would destroy something and Superman would be like "dont worry, we'll pay for it" then look over at Bruce.

Aquaman and Wonder Woman are both far wealthier than Batman.

 

[superbatxmen]

yes they should have him in there

 

[The Batman]

This is the most stupidest post I've ever read.

And you completely missed the point, dumbass

 

[Artistsean]

Batman has to be in the movie just like Superman for a few reasons, the most important being they are the most popular with the public.
Get any non comic book reader out there and they will know who Batman and Superman are. Plus these two had their own movies recently and in the past. Not as many people know who Flash, Aquaman, or Wonder Woman are.
Batman and Superman are like the mutual friends. They can introduce the non readers to the characters they don't know, bring them into the theaters.

You need Batman and Superman to introduce the League to the public. You see those two in there and it helps set up the league and its status.

I am not saying that Batman or Superman need huge roles in the movie, (even though in the comic Batman, Wonder Woman, and especially Superman, are the team leaders. Thats like having an Avenger movie without Cap leading.)
Batman and Superman could be side characters, with some imporatnt parts.
You don't want to over expose either character to the public. Get people sick of Batman.


So to sum up:
Batman needed in the film, because non comic readers know who he is.

 

[Dr. MIX]

The folks over at BOF are sheep, their poll indicate that 60% don't want Batman in the film, where only five members here think the same. Fact is, Batman has always been part of the JLA, so I say he should get included. Are you guys going to deny yourselves to see Batman on the big screen? Didn't think so.

 

[The Question]

The folks over at BOF are sheep, their poll indicate that 60% don't want Batman in the film, where only five members here think the same. Fact is, Batman has always been part of the JLA, so I say he should get included. Are you guys going to deny yourselves to see Batman on the big screen? Didn't think so.

You know, one could easily turn that arguement around and say that the majority of people here are sheep for all wanting Batman in the film.

 

[GL1]

And why does a majority of the movie have to be spent trying to figure out who's behind what's going on?

Hmmm... you have some assumption here that I don't, so I don't even know how to answer this, really. I would assume Batman would be off-screen putting the case together either in a lab or on the streets for most of the movie... of course, you could just have everything straightforward, but it'd be better if there was a twist, and it would give Batman a chance to contribute strongly without needing a lot of screen time.

I don't see why Batman has to have such an important role. Can't he just be a side character in a movie that's not about him?

I feel that all the Justice League members should have a strong, yes, even essential effect on the plot, even if they don't have a lot of screen time or significant character arc... Batman's no exception. But I do agree that the movie shouldn't be about him.

First of all, J'onn isn't always limited. I can't even think of many times that he has been. And second, why does he have to be? He may be more versitile than his teammates, but that doesn't make him a deus ex machina. That's what I'd like to avoid with Batman.

Same here, but excluding Batman is a pretty wack solution. Same with J'onn and GL, who actually has a Dues Ex by definition. Of course J'onn isn't always handicapped, but all dynamic characters are limited somehow at some level... if only by not being able to be everywhere at once.

And J'onn historically fails to use his telepathy, speed or phasing at times when it would give the league a decisive victory in short order... that's just how it is, otherwise J'onn would read the minds of all criminals and stop geniouses and invasions before they even happened. So, typically, J'onn is either limited by distance (being too far away/somewhere else) concentration (doing multiple things at once/fire is around) or preoccupation ("J'onn, get those guys, I'll get these.")There's ways to balance characters... and it's usually not very hard at all.

your entire arguement seems to be elaning to the idea that J'onn should be tonned down and Bruce should be tonned up because Batman is "cooler."

What? You're misreading me completely. I really have no idea how you got that. My first point is that they should both be included, period. My seond point is that they both should be given time to shine, J'onn moreso, because he lends to a JLA character arc better. Regardless, just like Superman, Wonder Woman and Aquaman can get time to shine despite J'onn having all their bases covered, so can Batman. J'onn can be preoccupied with any number of things, or simply happen to be elsewhere at the time. I never, even for a second said J'onn should be 'toned down.'

Aquaman and Wonder Woman are both far wealthier than Batman.

Technically, yes... but their assets aren't quite as liquid as his are either, at least from the standpoint of the American economy. All that aside, Bruce Wayne has better contacts than the rest of the league combined, as far as the planet Earth is concerned.

I mean, you can try to paint Batman as useless, but it's clear that next to MM, the entire league is useless, with the possible exception of a few functions of the GL ring. Yet, we want all those other characters included... I'm saying "Batman too... just like WW and Superman... he is no more useless than they are." That's my arguement... disprove that instead of trying to put words into my mouth and disprove those.

 

[Dr. MIX]

You know, one could easily turn that arguement around and say that the majority of people here are sheep for all wanting Batman in the film.

Point taken, but Batman rocks

Don't you like Batman, the hell's wrong with you

 

[Katsuro]

You know, one could easily turn that arguement around and say that the majority of people here are sheep for all wanting Batman in the film.

I dont see how that makes sense. If we're sheep, who are we following? Jett says "no batman in JLA" and they all follow him. SHH doesn't really have a leader like that whose opininon everyone follows like that.

Of course, it could also be blamed on that fact that SHH has more general comic-book fans, while BOF is usually specifically batman fans, some of whom dont even read comics. The guys over there probably see it as less of not wanting Batman in their JLA and more of not wanting JLA with their Batman.

 

[Hunter Rider]

This is the most stupidest post I've ever read.

And you completely missed the point, dumbass

Both of you knock off the aggro

 

[Cyrusbales]

I want to see a JSA thing going on, with Spectre

 

[SolidRoar]

I'd be satisfied if he at least appeared in a cameo and it was mentioned that he'd only be a part-time member. This being an origin JLA story, the foundation of the Justice League will most probably happen at the end of the film. They will need someone with his resources and wealth to form the JLA after all. I guess that would work.

 

[Sun_Down]

I say he should be in the movie BECAUSE he doesn't seem to fit. That contrast, especially between him and Superman, is one of the coolest thing about the JLA, to me atleast. Showing Bats try to find his role and identity amongst the other heroes would provide some good drama, tension and (hopefully) eventual resolution on screen.

 

[The Question]

Hmmm... you have some assumption here that I don't, so I don't even know how to answer this, really. I would assume Batman would be off-screen putting the case together either in a lab or on the streets for most of the movie... of course, you could just have everything straightforward, but it'd be better if there was a twist, and it would give Batman a chance to contribute strongly without needing a lot of screen time.

That's not what I'm talking about. Why does the story have to include some kind of mystery? Not every League story does, and in some of the ones that do, they don't even solve the mystery until it's too late to do so and are forced to deal with the fallout (JLA: Year One being a prime example of this).

I feel that all the Justice League members should have a strong, yes, even essential effect on the plot, even if they don't have a lot of screen time or significant character arc... Batman's no exception. But I do agree that the movie shouldn't be about him.

Fair enough. Although, I find that it's very hard to give Batman an important role in the League without lessening the importance of other characters.

Same here, but excluding Batman is a pretty wack solution.

I don't think so. I don't see Batman as essential to the League. I'm perfectly fine with him not being a member, or only apearting in small dosses. In fact, sometimes, I prefer that. The only essential members of the League, in my mind, are J'onn and Orin.

Same with J'onn and GL, who actually has a Dues Ex by definition. Of course J'onn isn't always handicapped, but all dynamic characters are limited somehow at some level... if only by not being able to be everywhere at once.

True.

And J'onn historically fails to use his telepathy, speed or phasing at times when it would give the league a decisive victory in short order... that's just how it is, otherwise J'onn would read the minds of all criminals and stop geniouses and invasions before they even happened.

Reading minds doesn't solve all your problems. And while I'm not arguing that he's sometimes limited, it's mainly because telepathy is still limited. He can't read someone's mind and avert an invasion force in every instance. Other circumstances can make that impossible.

So, typically, J'onn is either limited by distance (being too far away/somewhere else) concentration (doing multiple things at once/fire is around) or preoccupation ("J'onn, get those guys, I'll get these.")There's ways to balance characters... and it's usually not very hard at all.

True. But that can be said for anybody.

What? You're misreading me completely. I really have no idea how you got that. My first point is that they should both be included, period. My seond point is that they both should be given time to shine, J'onn moreso, because he lends to a JLA character arc better. Regardless, just like Superman, Wonder Woman and Aquaman can get time to shine despite J'onn having all their bases covered, so can Batman. J'onn can be preoccupied with any number of things, or simply happen to be elsewhere at the time. I never, even for a second said J'onn should be 'toned down.'

My point has never been that J'onn or any other character has "all their bases covered." In fact, J'onn doesn't have all their bases covered. Yes, he's as strong as Clark and Diana. But when The Star Conqueror or Amazo or Darkseid shows up, you're going to need at least all three of them to lay the smackdown at once.

Technically, yes... but their assets aren't quite as liquid as his are either, at least from the standpoint of the American economy.

So, they shouldn't deal with the American economy. Everything the League needs could be done within Atlantis or Themyscira. They need to cloak their base? The Amazons have the greatest cloaking technology on the planet. Medical supplies? Purple healing ray. Securtity defenses for their base? Atlantis' armored plating is some of the toughest on earth, as are their weapons. State of the art computer technology? Atlantis has been in the computer technologies game for 12,000 years. With the scientific resources of two governments at their disposal, the CEO of an American company seems small in comparison. Also, J'onn himself is the president and CEO of a Japanese electronics company, so there are some very liquid assets right there.

All that aside, Bruce Wayne has better contacts than the rest of the league combined, as far as the planet Earth is concerned.

That's most certainly debatable. J'onn has hundreds of identities all over the world, and hundreds of contacts in each of them. Clark traveled the world as a freelance reporter for several years before settling down in Metropolis, and probably earned favors from many people in that time. Orin and Diana have major contacts in the political arena. Most certainly more than Bruce.

I mean, you can try to paint Batman as useless, but it's clear that next to MM, the entire league is useless, with the possible exception of a few functions of the GL ring. Yet, we want all those other characters included... I'm saying "Batman too... just like WW and Superman... he is no more useless than they are." That's my arguement... disprove that instead of trying to put words into my mouth and disprove those.

1) There's a difference between a misunderstanding and putting words in someone's mouth.

2) I do think Bruce is more useless than Clark and Diana. And I completely disagree with the idea that, next to J'onn, the entire League is useless. As I have said, J'onn can't do everything by himself. If he were stronger, faster, and tougher than the entire League put together, then the others would be useless. But he is equal in strength, speed, and durability as Clark and Diana. And with the threats they face, they need as many people with that kind of power as they can get. Flash is much faster than all of them (Clark, J'onn, and Diana have in the past struggled to keep up with Wally when he's not even trying), and of course GL has many useful abilities that the others lack. Bruce, on the other hand, doesn't bring anything to the table that they need or don't already have in some form or another. He's good as a consultant and supporting character, but he's just tacked on and unnecessairy as a full time member.

 

[GL1]

Oh no... I've started a big super-reply argeument again! Argh!

That's not what I'm talking about. Why does the story have to include some kind of mystery? Not every League story does, and in some of the ones that do, they don't even solve the mystery until it's too late to do so and are forced to deal with the fallout (JLA: Year One being a prime example of this).

So that Batman can have a cameo... we'll also put in a strong villain so superman will have something to punch.

Fair enough. Although, I find that it's very hard to give Batman an important role in the League without lessening the importance of other characters.

I don't agree... I think it's pretty easy.

I don't think so. I don't see Batman as essential to the League. I'm perfectly fine with him not being a member, or only apearting in small dosses. In fact, sometimes, I prefer that. The only essential members of the League, in my mind, are J'onn and Orin.

I honestly don't think any of the league members are essential... if there was one, it'd be J'onn, but I've enjoyed the league heaps without him.

Reading minds doesn't solve all your problems. And while I'm not arguing that he's sometimes limited, it's mainly because telepathy is still limited. He can't read someone's mind and avert an invasion force in every instance. Other circumstances can make that impossible.

That's where you put Batman's cameos... in the cracks.

True. But that can be said for anybody.

And THERE's my point. I don't see Batman as any more or less valuable to the league than Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash and GL... lobbying for Batman to not be in it is almost a wtf moment for me... I don't see his redundancies as any more handicapping than those of Superman and Wonder Woman.

My point has never been that J'onn or any other character has "all their bases covered." In fact, J'onn doesn't have all their bases covered. Yes, he's as strong as Clark and Diana. But when The Star Conqueror or Amazo or Darkseid shows up, you're going to need at least all three of them to lay the smackdown at once.

I know that's not your point, but that's my observation. As far as value in numbers, a Batplane carries enough missiles to distract if not hurt most of the JL's foes just as easily as Flash or Superman.

So, they shouldn't deal with the American economy. Everything the League needs could be done within Atlantis or Themyscira. They need to cloak their base? The Amazons have the greatest cloaking technology on the planet. Medical supplies? Purple healing ray. Securtity defenses for their base? Atlantis' armored plating is some of the toughest on earth, as are their weapons. State of the art computer technology? Atlantis has been in the computer technologies game for 12,000 years. With the scientific resources of two governments at their disposal, the CEO of an American company seems small in comparison. Also, J'onn himself is the president and CEO of a Japanese electronics company, so there are some very liquid assets right there.

Well, in current DCU yes, but in the movies... it's not likely that J'onn will start established on Earth and all that. Good point about the tech... and while we know nothing about MOVIE Atlantis/Themiscira... but Batman has more access to information in modern society... which is why I highlighted his contactness instead of supplierhood... Batman as an informer, not a techie.

Again, we CAN make Batman useless... but why?

That's most certainly debatable. J'onn has hundreds of identities all over the world, and hundreds of contacts in each of them. Clark traveled the world as a freelance reporter for several years before settling down in Metropolis, and probably earned favors from many people in that time. Orin and Diana have major contacts in the political arena. Most certainly more than Bruce.

Again, not in the movies. And Again, we CAN make Batman useless, but why?

A side note, to take on your Starro issue... what happens when J'onn runs into a particularly tough mind? Or doesn't know who to scan or where to look? Here comes Batman... weakening minds with fear and knowing exactly where the trails lead to.

1) There's a difference between a misunderstanding and putting words in someone's mouth.

2) I do think Bruce is more useless than Clark and Diana. And I completely disagree with the idea that, next to J'onn, the entire League is useless. As I have said, J'onn can't do everything by himself. If he were stronger, faster, and tougher than the entire League put together, then the others would be useless. But he is equal in strength, speed, and durability as Clark and Diana. And with the threats they face, they need as many people with that kind of power as they can get. Flash is much faster than all of them (Clark, J'onn, and Diana have in the past struggled to keep up with Wally when he's not even trying), and of course GL has many useful abilities that the others lack. Bruce, on the other hand, doesn't bring anything to the table that they need or don't already have in some form or another. He's good as a consultant and supporting character, but he's just tacked on and unnecessairy as a full time member.

1) Yeah, I got angry, my bad...

2) Agreed... but him not being a full time member is a long step away from him not having a crucial moment in the movie... he's, at the very least, the best detective far and away of the group, and completely removing that from the movie just because he's not superstrong or because he's overexposed would be... shortsighted? Overcompensating? I'm not sure, but there's plenty reason to reduce Batman's importance in the League, but no reason to remove him from it.

Understanding Batman's redundancies, I still think he has unique utility, and is perfect for a large cameo role. If you want to call that "Part Time Member" fine, but I don't think the league will have a charter in the first movie anyway.

 

[Sun_Down]

So are you two gonna have this little quote-war in both the JLA theads?

 

[The Question]

Oh no... I've started a big super-reply argeument again! Argh!

You fool! You have doomed us ALL!!!

So that Batman can have a cameo... we'll also put in a strong villain so superman will have something to punch.

That was to be expected. In fact, I was hoping for a strong villain for several of them to punch.

I don't agree... I think it's pretty easy.

Not entirely. Some character ends up looking stupid in order for Batman to be able to really run with the big guns. Mostly villains, but sometimes fellow League members. At least, that's what I've noticed.

I honestly don't think any of the league members are essential... if there was one, it'd be J'onn, but I've enjoyed the league heaps without him.

I haven't. Way I see it, the League ain't the League without Orin or J'onn. Their the backbone of the team.

That's where you put Batman's cameos... in the cracks.

I suppose that makes sense.

And THERE's my point. I don't see Batman as any more or less valuable to the league than Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash and GL... lobbying for Batman to not be in it is almost a wtf moment for me... I don't see his redundancies as any more handicapping than those of Superman and Wonder Woman.

And I do. To put it bluntly, he's less valuable because he doesn't have any super powers. Any specialties he has are mostly covered by other members of the team, and he doesn't have any powers that make him otherwise useful to the team on a full time basis. Which is why I think he should be left as a consultant with a cameo or otherwise small part.

I know that's not your point, but that's my observation. As far as value in numbers, a Batplane carries enough missiles to distract if not hurt most of the JL's foes just as easily as Flash or Superman.

Ah, yes, I did forget about the jet. That is a good point, actually.

Well, in current DCU yes, but in the movies... it's not likely that J'onn will start established on Earth and all that.

Maybe. I hope not, though.

Good point about the tech... and while we know nothing about MOVIE Atlantis/Themiscira... but Batman has more access to information in modern society... which is why I highlighted his contactness instead of supplierhood... Batman as an informer, not a techie.

True, I suppose.

Again, we CAN make Batman useless... but why?

Well, are we talking about useless as a full time member, or as a minor character in the film? Because, I've nothing against him having a short, minor role.

Again, not in the movies. And Again, we CAN make Batman useless, but why?

A side note, to take on your Starro issue... what happens when J'onn runs into a particularly tough mind? Or doesn't know who to scan or where to look? Here comes Batman... weakening minds with fear and knowing exactly where the trails lead to.

I highly doubt Starro is scared of Batman. But yes, Batman's detective skills would be useful in some circumstances. Which is why he should be, as I've said, a consultant with a minor role.

1) Yeah, I got angry, my bad...

S'alright. You should get a stress releif toy. They're fun.

2) Agreed... but him not being a full time member is a long step away from him not having a crucial moment in the movie... he's, at the very least, the best detective far and away of the group, and completely removing that from the movie just because he's not superstrong or because he's overexposed would be... shortsighted? Overcompensating? I'm not sure, but there's plenty reason to reduce Batman's importance in the League, but no reason to remove him from it.

I've said he should be in it. Just in a very minor role that, while it certainly helps along the plot, doesn't have that much screen time.

Also, I'm still going to question Bruce being a better detective than J'onn.

Understanding Batman's redundancies, I still think he has unique utility, and is perfect for a large cameo role. If you want to call that "Part Time Member" fine, but I don't think the league will have a charter in the first movie anyway.

True. Although, I wouldn't even call it "part time member." Consultant sounds better. And more professional.

 

[AssMan]

I liked how they did it in the cartoon. Bruce Wayne makes the toys & the Justice League uses them. That is the perfect way to get Bruce Wayne in there

 

[Jordacar]

Now the poll said "Should Batman be in the JL film?" I voted yes, of course. But whether or not he needs to be on the team, that could go either way IMO.

In "JLA: Year One," Batman's not on the team yet, but it's still a great story (plus, Oliver Queen turns out to be the team's anonymous benefactor). I really, really, really want to see Bats in the movie in at least a cameo.

On the other hand, Batman is a great member of the team because even tho he doesn't have super powers, he still proves himself time and time again, which is a really cool dynamic to explore.