Sequels Sony Expands Spider-Man Cinematic Universe: Announced Venom and Sinister Six movies

[DrCosmic]

TASM1
TASM2
Venom
TASM3
Sinister Six
TASM4

Those are all the films that've been announced so far. TASM4 as Spidey vs the Sinister Six is a good climax for this round of actors. Let TASM3 feature Venom as a sometimey ally with villains like Hydroman and Scorpion.

 

[TheVileOne]

How is Venom after the second movie going ot work? That makes no sense.

 

[Picard Sisko]

Venom will at least have to take place after the third film.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

Thinking of Goddard's involvement with this Spider-verse going forward, anyone else think he'd be the guy Sony turns to if TASM 2 is as uninspired and mediocre as the first film? The S6 film is at least 4 years away, but if this upcoming sequel fails to gain traction the prospect of future world building becomes a lot less enticing for Sony (and fans). You'd think Goddard would have a great feel for this genre being a comic fan and writing the DD series for Netflix. And his connection to Whedon can't hurt either. I'm sure he'd be a great sounding board for any ideas he may have.

 

[Oscorp]

Thinking of Goddard's involvement with this Spider-verse going forward, anyone else think he'd be the guy Sony turns to if TASM 2 is as uninspired and mediocre as the first film? The S6 film is at least 4 years away, but if this upcoming sequel fails to gain traction the prospect of future world building becomes a lot less enticing for Sony (and fans). You'd think Goddard would have a great feel for this genre being a comic fan and writing the DD series for Netflix. And his connection to Whedon can't hurt either. I'm sure he'd be a great sounding board for any ideas he may have.

If ASM2 is at least as good as ASM, I'm sure they will keep going...

If it fails though, that may happen.

 

[Picard Sisko]

I think it would take a lot for TASM2 to bring the series down to the point where continuing may no longer be a possibility. It would probably have to be SM3 bad.

The MCU had two mediocre films in a row and continued successfully: The Incredible Hulk and Iron Man 2.

 

[Super Jim]

The two villains proposed as possible bigger villains than a Sinister Six is the Green Goblin and the Kingpin.

The problem with the Goblin is that he is so ingrained in the Spiderman films, using him also as the big bad for an S6 movie would diminish him. And using Harry to finance the S6 doesn't make a lot of sense since he too is so much as part of the Amazing Spider-Man stories and will likely not make it past TASM3.

Kingpin is an interesting character that was terribly done in Daredevil. The problem is that even with all his resources and power he wound't be able to stand up again the super powers of the Sinister Six. All he can do, since he doesn't have super powers, is send Tombstone to deal with someone. Sorry, but Tombstone would get his arse handed to him by any of the S6 (even Black Cat). Also, if they ever want to do any sort of TV Spider-Man universe series the Kingpin is a perfect villain, so using him in the movies would waste him.

Again, just can't see a Sinister Six movie being good because I can't see any threat from the Spider-Man universe that is more of a threat than the Six!

Actually, the only villain that I could see that could go up against the Six, and possibly be able to take them down, would be...

VENOM!

Now I wonder if that's what they meant. An S6 versus Venom movie. But still, using the S6 in their own movie kills them being used against Spidey, and I want to see that!

 

[Picard Sisko]

They wouldn't introduce the S6 just so they can fight Venom. Maybe Spider-Man gets help from Venom, or perhaps makes use of the symbiote to take them down. THAT I could see happening.

 

[Super Jim]

^ I think you agree with me that the SInister Six is better served as a villainous force against Spiderman!

If they would want to get Venom and Spiderman to team-up, post a Venom as the villain Amazing movie, Carnage would be the way.

 

[Picard Sisko]

Spider-Man and Venom vs. Carnage… man I want to see that.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

I think it would take a lot for TASM2 to bring the series down to the point where continuing may no longer be a possibility. It would probably have to be SM3 bad.

The MCU had two mediocre films in a row and continued successfully: The Incredible Hulk and Iron Man 2.

Not really comparable. The Incredible Hulk didn't get a sequel. Marvel just focused on it's other characters until the Hulk could be resurrected in the team dynamic of the Avengers. IM2 followed the excellent and uber-successful Iron Man (financially and critically). People knew it was building towards The Avengers, so it could weather the disappointment much easier. Sony and Spider-Man have no such luxury. It's a much riskier play because burnout seems inevitable with the lack of variety. They seem to have already done a 180 in terms of what they established in the first film. Plans would seemingly be more in flux in a single charater dominated world moving forward.

 

[Picard Sisko]

And this series is building to the Sinister Six...

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

And this series is building to the Sinister Six...

Yeah, but like I said, it's all riding on one character....so it's much riskier. There was a solo Hulk film, a solo Thor film, a solo Cap film and two IM films. The build-up was much more diverse, therefore the chance of burnout was pretty much non existent. Not the case here. They've already had their misstep out of the gate, so they can't really afford another. That's why I brought up the Goddard possibility, it would just be another 180 on Sony's part, but one that could definitely pay off.

 

[Picard Sisko]

Do you think it would be cool if Brian Michael Bendis ever wrote a Spider-Man film?

He wrote the early USM comic books almost as if they were film adaptions of the classic 616 comic books.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

They seem to be inspired by USM with all these films going back to Raimi's first. I'd bet something like that would have been more exciting for people a decade ago. I remember seeing all these "Bendis is God" type posts on here and places like CBR during his DD and early USM runs.

The people I'd love to see write a Spidey film are Joss Whedon and Edgar Wright. Anyone doubt we'd get a great film with these guys writing/directing it? At the very least it would be highly entertaining.

 

[DrCosmic]

How is Venom after the second movie going ot work? That makes no sense.

Well, they'd have to have a Spidey-gets-the-symbiote after credits sequence. We know a venom room is in ASM2, so it's possible. Not likely, sure, but definitely possible.

The two villains proposed as possible bigger villains than a Sinister Six is the Green Goblin and the Kingpin.

The problem with the Goblin is that he is so ingrained in the Spiderman films, using him also as the big bad for an S6 movie would diminish him. And using Harry to finance the S6 doesn't make a lot of sense since he too is so much as part of the Amazing Spider-Man stories and will likely not make it past TASM3.

Kingpin is an interesting character that was terribly done in Daredevil. The problem is that even with all his resources and power he wound't be able to stand up again the super powers of the Sinister Six. All he can do, since he doesn't have super powers, is send Tombstone to deal with someone. Sorry, but Tombstone would get his arse handed to him by any of the S6 (even Black Cat). Also, if they ever want to do any sort of TV Spider-Man universe series the Kingpin is a perfect villain, so using him in the movies would waste him.

Again, just can't see a Sinister Six movie being good because I can't see any threat from the Spider-Man universe that is more of a threat than the Six!

Actually, the only villain that I could see that could go up against the Six, and possibly be able to take them down, would be...

VENOM!

Now I wonder if that's what they meant. An S6 versus Venom movie. But still, using the S6 in their own movie kills them being used against Spidey, and I want to see that!

Venom is probably the only villain who could fight the Sinister Six by himself in a street fight, but when I say Norman Osborn, I don't mean Norman Osborn on a glider, I mean Norman Osborn with a private army of security with super high tech weapons from Oscorp, a squadron of Spider-clones and enough money and resources to find anyone and their loved ones anywhere. This is a person who could destroy Venom and the Sinister Six from his office desk while drinking scotch with the Mayor. That's the kind of villain the Sinister Six need.

Also, the Sinister Six beating Oscorp doesn't actually diminish the Green Goblin. It just makes him desperate, and more dangerous. Like Loki in the Avengers, him being defeated there didn't diminish him one tiny bit in Thor's franchise.

Kingpin has a lot more than Tombstone on his side. He's got Alistar Smythe, which means he also has an army of Spider-clones if he wants it, and he definitely has a fleet of Spider Slayer robots, and on top of that he hires the best assassins in the world like Silver Sable and Chameleon to take out his enemies, and can also find anyone anywhere because he pretty much owns crime. Just like with Ocean's 11, or Now You See Me, or Inception, these types of villains aren't about a big fistfight in the final battle. They're playing a game of chess with the heroes.

That's why these are the best threats for a team of supervillains, because they have entire organizations that can do a lot more damage to the Sinister Six than one guy who just hits hard, even if that guy is Venom. Money is the greatest superpower, and Kingpin and Norman Osborn have plenty of it. Not only is money the greatest super power, it makes a great target. There are tons of things the Sinister Six might want from Norman or Kingpin: Money, Power, Revenge, Technology, Prestige. But what would the Sinister Six want from Venom? He doesn't have anything they need. Money also makes a great setting. The Sinister Six could go after Oscorp's labs, warehouses, Norman Osborn's penthouse suite, or private islands or Oil Tankers. There's lots of things to do WITH Norman Osborn or Kingpin. The only thing they can do with Venom is get into a fistfight.

The Ultimate comics had Kingpin go away and return better than ever multiple times. If they ever do make a Spidey TV show, they can bring Kingpin back. However, if they don't, it would be a waste to never use him while waiting for a show that may never come (and may not even be possible since Sony gave up the TV rights).

Also, we have no idea how long Harry Osborn is going to last. What do you think would kill him off in ASM3?

And how does using the Sinister Six in their own movie kill them from being used in a Spidey movie? If anything, they need their own movie in order to be used in a Spidey movie.

 

[Picard Sisko]

They seem to be inspired by USM with all these films going back to Raimi's first. I'd bet something like that would have been more exciting for people a decade ago. I remember seeing all these "Bendis is God" type posts on here and places like CBR during his DD and early USM runs.

The people I'd love to see write a Spidey film are Joss Whedon and Edgar Wright. Anyone doubt we'd get a great film with these guys writing/directing it? At the very least it would be highly entertaining.

I would like to see a Joss Whedon Spider-Man film, but I also find his work to be highly overrated. Never liked Buffy, and I think Firefly is okay. The Avengers is a really fun movie, but there's little depth to it. There are always those "Joss Whedon is God" posts around here if anything.

Edgar Wright… well I want to see how Ant-Man turns out first.

I would love to have Brian Michael Bendis write the script while JJ Abrams directs.

 

[SoNicRaDiATioN]

I would like to see a Joss Whedon Spider-Man film, but I also find his work to be highly overrated. Never liked Buffy, and I think Firefly is okay. The Avengers is a really fun movie, but there's little depth to it. There are always those "Joss Whedon is God" posts around here if anything.

Edgar Wright… well I want to see how Ant-Man turns out first.

I would love to have Brian Michael Bendis write the script while JJ Abrams directs.

The only Whedon project I haven't liked was Dollhouse. In fact I hated it. Angel was simply OK to me. Everything else is A1. The Avengers is pure magic imo. Loved it when I saw it in the theaters, was disappointed when I got it on Blu-ray, but have grown to love it like I did in the theater with multiple viewings. It's just an addictive, intellegent, fun as hell film. So many memorable scenes in that movie.

I don't need to see Ant-Man to know how an Edgar Wright Spidey film would turn out. I think he would nail the humor and Peter Parker qualities to a tee.

 

[Picard Sisko]

I like the Avengers, but I think its a pretty overrated film.

 

[Super Jim]

IMO, The Sinister Six would be a perfect culmination to the Andrew Garfield Amazing films. There really isn't any reason for these characters to be fleshed out in their own movie since some are/have already been fleshed out.

For some villains we need to see the backstory. For example, Sandman and his daughter, or Doc Ock and his wife. These were things we needed to see since those "villains" ended up being less villainous than they could have been. Most villains that are the main threats ultimately have a deep backstory that the audience needs to see.

That's why Sandman ended up being a "good guy", and why Doc Ock ended up being a "good guy" in the earlier Spiderman films.

It's also why the Lizard redeemed himself. The audience felt for him and connected to his issue.

The question is will we do the same with Electro? He starts off as a nerd who no one "sees". Through a mistake he gets power and becomes a villain. It will be interesting to see the direct cause. In the end, I'm guessing we'll see him defeated because he'll have an epiphany and not be as evil as he could be. He'll end up losing his form so he could possibly come back.

Now Rhino is on a totally different level. His power level is not the same, I suspect, as Electro's, and at the core he's nothing more than a thug. Thug type villains don't need to have their backstory fleshed out.

Norman and/or Harry will have their backstory fleshed out in TASM2. For Harry I suspect it will be partially due to the tranformation, while with Norman it's more due to power.

At some point the Black Cat will be explored. We could meet Felicia in this one and then see her backstory in TASM3. At the same time a Vulture villain would only need minimal backstory, and a Doc Ock, if introduced in TASM2 (think a guy with a German accent saying "the future") would be about the science and power.

The point is that if they go with my concept where one or two of the Six turn (Black Cat and/or Connors) and a couple others are already known (Rhino and/or Goblin), or at least have been introduced (Doc Ock and/or Vulture by the end of TASM2); then getting them all to come together is not so difficult and can be pulled off in one really amazing movie.

As far as needing their own Sinister Six movie, I can't see it. And after they fight Peter there is no reason for them to have their own movie. It's not like these villains are like Venom or say, Prowler, or say, Sandman, or say Deadpool even, where they become anti-heros. Just not really seeing the S6 having their own film where they are the "heroes".

What I do hope is that they are not looking at this as 4 and out. In the end, although I like Garfield, it's Spider-Man that is important and there are other actors out there (maybe even some who are currently in high school) that would be good as a replacement when the time comes.

And Spiderman has just so many good possible stories and villains, even after using up 6 in the Sinister Six.

How about this:

TASM: The Lizard
TASM2: Electro, Rhino and Harry-Goblin
TASM3: The Sinister Six (Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Vulture, Rhino, Black Cat & Connors)
TASM4: Venom and Sin-Eater
TASM5: Carnage, with Shriek and Carrion
TASM6: Kraven the Hunter with Camelian and Vermin
TASM7: Mysterio
TASM8: Morbius
TASM9: The Hobgoblin
TASM10: The Spider-Slayer (Alistaire Smythe)

And all of this doesn't even include Shocker, Scorpion, Kingpin with Tombstone, Jackal, Silvermane, etc.

The point?

Well, if they are smart they could be looking at a Spiderman movie every 2 years for the next, what, 20 years without any problems, and these are all major Spiderman villains!

 

[Picard Sisko]

I think Electro is going to stay the bad guy and won't try to redeem himself. And back to Andrew Garfield, I don't think they will "reboot" once he leaves the Spider-Man franchise. They are planning this series specifically so that it will last a very long time and turn into a cinematic universe. If they have to recast every 3-4 movies, then so be it. Do it Bond style.

 

[Super Jim]

^ That's my hope! My only worry is with the apparent Sinister Six plans, as possibly both villains against Spider-Man and getting their own movie (which I don't see the purpose of), it's like they are making things so big there's no way to top it.

It's kind of like the Raimi shove everything into one flick so we can say we did it, but it ruined it. With Spiderman 3 if you remove the whole Venom thing (though keep the symbiote to set up a future Venom movie) the movie would have sucked a little less. Still would have sucked due to the campy dancing, campy hair blowing, making MJ a whiny, self-absorbed crybaby, Harry losing his memory, Harry getting his memory back, Harry and MJ doing the twist, Harry and MJ cooking eggs, Doctor Connors being an idiot (like he wouldn't call the authorities about a symbiotic unknown creature - please), Sandman being Ben's killer, Barnard waiting a few years too long to inform Harry that it wasn't Spiderman, Dunst (average at best) playing MJ - one of the hottest women in the Spidey universe (something that I'm worried could happen to MJ in the Amazing franchise), Ursula get me cookies with nuts and some milk, Peter pretending to march, and so much more.

It's just going to be hard to build upon an Amazing film with the Sinister Six as the villains. Venom and Carnage could maybe be good enough, but could other villains? In a lot of ways, if they really wanted to have a long running cinematic universe, then why not have films with some of the individual villains that end up being part of the S6 and then do the S6 years down the road.

Look, although I love the idea of an S6 as I believe it would be so big, that's really the problem. It will be so big that topping it would be tough...

 

[Picard Sisko]

A Sinister Six movie could work. We already have two villains (Electro and Rhino), and the next movie will probably introduce a couple of more. If one of them is shocker, then we don't need a whole movie to introduce him and provide a backstory. Same goes with Vulture.

The only villains that need a lot of development in the Sinister Six are Doctor Octopus, Kraven, and Mysterio.

 

[Super Jim]

^ But when you are saying "A Sinister Six movie could work" are you saying as a stand alnoe, or what I have been saying for the past year, as the villainous group in an Amazing Spider-Man movie?

 

[Picard Sisko]

The Sinister Six will not be standalone. It would probably be a Spider-Man vs. S6 film, perhaps just focusing more on the Sinister Six this time around.