Comics Spoilers...Next issue of New Avengers..

[MyPokerShirt]

All types of stories from Spidey's past vary as far as the fights go... he can get screwed up by a powerless Black Cat or the Prowler, yet can take on the likes of the Hulk, FireLord and the Juggernaut.

You never know how any story can turn out because Spidey has proven that he can fight to the limit, or at times, he can get caught with his pants down, which is why it doesn't quite shock me when Screwball was able to get away in the before last issue... (not that she would have anyway with a Spidey tracer on her), but the complaints that followed by readers was astounding...



Just because Spidey can beat FireLord doesn't mean he can beat everybody.

And if he could beat everybody, then his books would be boring.

It just frustrates fans that a core, favourite character is not even in the same league as some of the big boys. Hence why I generally hate events, even where spidey is at the centre (civil war) he still gets his ass handed to him loads. But whatever. I read cos I care

 

[Blader5489]

I wouldn't say most. I'm not a pure Marvel Zombie.

Nor am I. I keep hoping that fact will get through your thick skull someday, but, alas.

 

[Doc Destruction]

Name some DC books that you read AND enjoy.

 

[Blader5489]

Currently? Blue Beetle, Green Lantern, Batman, and All-Star Superman (which has grown on me). I also recently dropped Checkmate, which I loved during Rucka's run, and I'm reading up on Garth Ennis' Hitman.

Plus, a ****load of Vertigo/Wildstorm books, like The Authority and Y: The Last Man (one of my favorite comic books of all time). Also started reading Ex Machina and The Invisibles.

 

[arachnid-guy]

where is teh preview?!?!

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

It just frustrates fans that a core, favourite character is not even in the same league as some of the big boys. Hence why I generally hate events, even where spidey is at the centre (civil war) he still gets his ass handed to him loads. But whatever. I read cos I care

Spidey kicked all kinds of ass during the final battle of Civil War. He took out Samson, Mr. Fantastic and (i think) Bishop all at the same time.

 

[iamlegend]

It just frustrates fans that a core, favourite character is not even in the same league as some of the big boys. Hence why I generally hate events, even where spidey is at the centre (civil war) he still gets his ass handed to him loads. But whatever. I read cos I care

It's a recurring problem with Marvel. They have no real scale as to the power levels they hand out.

It seems like every generation of writers tries to create more and more powerful characters, and it just gets really stupid. I, for one, would love to see Thor and the rest of the ancient God ilk that Marvel has going completely erased. It's a joke.

 

[shinlyle]

Stop it! That story doesn't exist! There was never any instance of Spidey beating a herald of Galactus...it didn't happen...

La-la-la-la I can't hear you la-la-la-la-la.

Classic Spidey 2-parter....and Blader hates it. Shocking.

Honestly, Cap beating Spidey does bug me, but not that much. Spidey has always been in awe of Cap. He never fightshim to his peak ability, simply because he respects him. Even in Civil War, Spdiey was too hearbroken about having to fight Cap to giveit his all. He could beat Cap senseles...but he never would.

This Skrull-Cap, on the other hand, he may catch a beating at the hands of Spidey.

Then again, Bendis did have Peter gettng his arm broken by Jigsaw, of all people, who was in a prison for super-powered villians, when he has no powers...

 

[Doc Destruction]

Well people are now screaming Skrull for Jigsaw. I would accept that at this point.

 

[moraldeficiency]

hmmmm...

First off I remember the first Spidey SS meeting and SS way outclassed the bug at every opportunity (although maybe my memory is being funny).

Firelord while in the high class on energy manipulation is actually not that durable of a character strength wise, so as long as he wasn't just going to A-Bomb the field I can just barely accept Peter taking him.

The Juggernaut fight was classic and Pete basically got his ass kicked. He only won by dropping a building on him and even that only gave Pete the chance to get himself and madam web away, so that fight I completely buy. (also that X-Force crossover was pretty cool)

As for this skrull cap, Pete will definately have a hard time. Taking out the fact that this is a 616 Spidey written by Bendis, we know that all these skrull imposters have more than one powerset and when pressed that comes into play (electra echo fight anyone?), so it would eventually boil down to Spider-Man (and a recently severely depowered one at that) fighting a clone of Capt with whatever additional powers (the X-sets seem the most popular) he might have. Now put in that this is a 616 Bendis spider-man that get's schooled by ninjas and is basically an annoying incompatant and he'll probably get his ass handed to him or might get out right at the last second with some lucky break. You really can't expect too much more than that.

 

[Themanofbat]

hmmmm...

First off I remember the first Spidey SS meeting and SS way outclassed the bug at every opportunity (although maybe my memory is being funny).

I think it was in Silver Surfer #14, and obviously, the morbid SS just wanted to be left alone and Spidey gave him a hard time at every opportunity... nobody was schooled either way, but Spidey did give the Surfer a hard time.

 

[moraldeficiency]

I think it was in Silver Surfer #14, and obviously, the morbid SS just wanted to be left alone and Spidey gave him a hard time at every opportunity... nobody was schooled either way, but Spidey did give the Surfer a hard time.

The most I remember from the issue is Pete ineffectually attacking the SS while he just wanted to be left alone. Although back then the cosmics weren't nearly as tough. Ben Grimm knocked the SS out with one punch in their first encounter.

 

[Arach Knight]

Now put in that this is a 616 Bendis spider-man that get's schooled by ninjas and is basically an annoying incompatant and he'll probably get his ass handed to him or might get out right at the last second with some lucky break. You really can't expect too much more than that.

I wouldn't blame that type of characterization on Bendis. That's been happening to Spidey for some time now. Anyone remember Amazing #426? That was part one of Doc Ock's resurrection. Spidey actually got beat by a clan of ninjas, while fighting in a frozen meat warehouse meat locker. They drugged him by grazing his skin with drug tipped shuriken. Anyways, the story is roughly a decade old. So we can't blame all Spidey losses on a particular writer.

It would be too boring if Spidey won all the time and if he lost all the time it would be unenjoyable. I think it is surprising when he defeats certain enemies who have him outmatched (Morlun, Digger, Firelord, The Wizard etc). But other times, even out thinking opponents does not work, and he has to call for help (Venom, Carnage etc).

 

[moraldeficiency]

I wouldn't blame that type of characterization on Bendis. That's been happening to Spidey for some time now. Anyone remember Amazing #426? That was part one of Doc Ock's resurrection. Spidey actually got beat by a clan of ninjas, while fighting in a frozen meat warehouse meat locker. They drugged him by grazing his skin with drug tipped shuriken. Anyways, the story is roughly a decade old. So we can't blame all Spidey losses on a particular writer.

It would be too boring if Spidey won all the time and if he lost all the time it would be unenjoyable. I think it is surprising when he defeats certain enemies who have him outmatched (Morlun, Digger, Firelord, The Wizard etc). But other times, even out thinking opponents does not work, and he has to call for help (Venom, Carnage etc).

But that's a poisoned Spider-Man in a confined space against a large groups (and this was right after he had gotten through saving New York [or the world?] from superelectro who fried the hell out of him.

I don't mind someone getting the drop on Pete from time to time, that's just the law of averages and that's fine, but you show me one issue of NA when he's been anything but a comedian, someone being made fun of, or someone getting his ass handed to him. Just one, and I'll take back what I said.

Bendis writes a great USM, I'm a fan, but it's when he gets his hands on creations that aren't his (616 Spider-Man, Scarlet Witch, Hawkeye, etc) and that's when he just kinda forgets what he's doing and loses any focus or characterization (if you can find any stylistic difference between a Reed Richards and a Ka-Zar written by him you're a better man than I) and just kinda puts in whatever to advance his plot.

So I don't mind pete losing to those weaker than him from time to time, that's life, but NA is the finest example of how to not write Peter Parker to a T. A guy whose almost in Reed's intellectual class and he's basically a running joke. Bravo.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

Classic Spidey 2-parter....and Blader hates it. Shocking.

Honestly, Cap beating Spidey does bug me, but not that much. Spidey has always been in awe of Cap. He never fightshim to his peak ability, simply because he respects him. Even in Civil War, Spdiey was too hearbroken about having to fight Cap to giveit his all. He could beat Cap senseles...but he never would.

This Skrull-Cap, on the other hand, he may catch a beating at the hands of Spidey.

Then again, Bendis did have Peter gettng his arm broken by Jigsaw, of all people, who was in a prison for super-powered villians, when he has no powers...

Actually, the artist took responsibility for that faux pas in a Newsarama interview. It was supposed to be one of the Wrecking Crew, iirc, who broke Spidey's arm. He and Bendis were kind of laughing over how everyone jumped on Bendis for HIS mistake.

 

[Arach Knight]

I don't mind someone getting the drop on Pete from time to time, that's just the law of averages and that's fine, but you show me one issue of NA when he's been anything but a comedian, someone being made fun of, or someone getting his ass handed to him. Just one, and I'll take back what I said.

I stopped reading New Avengers once Civil War got rolling. In all honesty I only picked it up based on the fact that Spidey was in it. The idea of Spider-Man being on a huge and public team didn't sit well with me, but the idea of Peter Parker finally getting a break from the super hero community and the public, was something I was on board with. But once Peter switched to pro reg, I dropped the book. All I remember is them getting off the island. That's about it. So I must concede, if Bendis has shown Spider-Man as more of an unprofessional lout, as opposed to a capable veteran (only exceeded in veteran status, by Captain America).

 

[kguillou]

Skrull Cap shouldnt stand a chance against spidey, for god's sake Spidey nearly killed the Kingpin without breaking one sweat, he should be able to take on some skrull imposter.

I regards to the way Bendis writes Spidey, i also hate how he does it BUT, I think Bendis feels obliged to have a comic relief character in the group all the time, cuz it sure as hell aint gonna be luke cage making the jokes. Sorta like how Flash was portrayed in Justice League Unlimited, every superhero group needs to have that annoying, comedian character to lighten the mood ( although the x-men seem to pull it off without one). But, eventhough i kinda understand why Bendis does it, Bendis should not be dumbing Spidey down the way he does. Most of his lines aren't even funny, just stupid, since when does Spidey say stuff like " We came, we saw, we stole a line from ghostbusters!"???

 

[moraldeficiency]

I stopped reading New Avengers once Civil War got rolling. In all honesty I only picked it up based on the fact that Spidey was in it. The idea of Spider-Man being on a huge and public team didn't sit well with me, but the idea of Peter Parker finally getting a break from the super hero community and the public, was something I was on board with. But once Peter switched to pro reg, I dropped the book. All I remember is them getting off the island. That's about it. So I must concede, if Bendis has shown Spider-Man as more of an unprofessional lout, as opposed to a capable veteran (only exceeded in veteran status, by Captain America).

Don't bother going back, it will just hurt to read the stories. The best issues of Spidey being an avenger was the New Avengers arc in Amazing. Pick those up is you want a good story.



Edit, although I will say in one of the original issues when Pete is all concerned over JJJ and Tony and Steve are talking to him about how they can fix. Then Pete just keeps trying to tell them no good will come of this only to have JJJ seemingly apologize and make nice and then trash all the avengers as a whole, just like Pete new he would was priceless. Kinda a welcome to my life type thing. But that was what the forth issue and there's been no reason, use or purpose to having Peter Parker on the team since then except for the great "dynamic" between him a Cage. Dynamic here being defined as the first character acting like an emotionally deprived jackass and the later making fun of him for it.

 

[Arach Knight]

Skrull Cap shouldnt stand a chance against spidey, for god's sake Spidey nearly killed the Kingpin without breaking one sweat, he should be able to take on some skrull imposter.

Wilson Fisk might be a surprisingly formidable opponent due to his impossibly muscled frame, but he is still a normal human without powers. Spider-Man should always be able to defeat The Kingpin, because the Kingpin has no advantage unless one underestimates him (assumes he is slow because of his size, or assume he is fat, because of his size). But Spidey has far superior strength, speed and reflexes. A Skrull on the other hand at least have shapeshifting which is extended to organic and inorganic material. (Thus meaning they can use their abilities to become more durable, flexible or aggressive). Then you have Super Skrull and War Skrulls who are augmented to replicate the powers of other creatures. I am only working on this assumption, based on Super Skrull, but I wouldn't doubt it if these Skrulls had more than one power.

 

[ragingdemon155]

The Firelord fight is a great two parter. Classic Spider-man.

However, the Spider-man vs. Juggernaut is my favorite battle in a comic ever. I think that perfectly sums up the character of Spider-man. The last time I saw Spider-man show that much heart and determination in a fight was during JMS's first arc with Morlun. Yeah, Spidey got a bit lucky against Juggernaut with the whole cement thing. Still though, the fight was amazing. Anyone who hasn't read it should pick it up. Spider-man action doesn't get any better.

Back on to Cap though...Compared to Spider-man, yes Captain America is a low level character. People go on and on about tactics and skill and all this. Cap should not be able to touch Spider-man. Hell one punch from Spider-man should rip his head off. So I guess I will go along with Shinlyle's way of thinking. Spider-man doesn't toss cap around cause he is in awe of him. I mean, that's the only explanation that makes any type of sense anyway.

 

[iloveclones]

A guy whose almost in Reed's intellectual class and he's basically a running joke. Bravo.

I get what you're saying, but that is an extreme exaggeration. Pete was always supposed to be smart, but I really think a better comparison would be someone like Bill Foster or Hank Pym.

As a someone who works in the field of research, I always hate how fans think that because Pete has an interest in science (and that's really all it is at this point, an interest), specifically biology, that he should be able to disarm any contraption that comes his way. I know a lot of smart people, but believe me, I wouldn't go to one of them if there was a nuclear bomb to be disarmed.

 

[Kirk Langstrom]

I get what you're saying, but that is an extreme exaggeration. Pete was always supposed to be smart, but I really think a better comparison would be someone like Bill Foster or Hank Pym.

Nah, not even that. Pym has created artificial intelligence. Peter is no where NEAR that level of intellect, and Reed Richards is even further away, imo...

 

[Arach Knight]

Spider-Man has a pretty fundamental basis to be considered a high intelligence in the Marvel rankings.

1)Web Shooters: This not only demanded that he create a device capable of ejecting a liquid at a very high PSI, it also called for the creation of a multi-purpose adhesive.

2)Spider-Tracers: Capable of emitting a signal that can be tracked by his spider-sense. Required mechanical knowledge as well as a biological knowledge.

3)Disarming Tony's Spidey Armor Fail Safes: Tony is easily the foremost mind of technology (or at least coming close to Forge). Peter, who mainly has a background in chemistry (not biology), was able to get around extensive programming in order to modify the fail safe.

I am all for putting Peter in his correct place. I agree that he isn't up there with Reed and Doom as world intellects, but I would not under rate him because due to the fact that his devotion is not science. At least not on a professional level. Reed spends more time inventing than fighting crime. The same some what goes for Pym. Banner was already a military funded scientist while Peter was still in high school. All things considered, Peter should be considered genius level. 3rd tier perhaps...but genius none the less.

 

[Blader5489]

Back on to Cap though...Compared to Spider-man, yes Captain America is a low level character. People go on and on about tactics and skill and all this. Cap should not be able to touch Spider-man. Hell one punch from Spider-man should rip his head off. So I guess I will go along with Shinlyle's way of thinking. Spider-man doesn't toss cap around cause he is in awe of him. I mean, that's the only explanation that makes any type of sense anyway.

You know Cap's a super soldier, right? Like the greatest one of all time?

 

[Styleshift]

Currently? Blue Beetle, Green Lantern, Batman, and All-Star Superman (which has grown on me). I also recently dropped Checkmate, which I loved during Rucka's run, and I'm reading up on Garth Ennis' Hitman.

Plus, a ****load of Vertigo/Wildstorm books, like The Authority and Y: The Last Man (one of my favorite comic books of all time). Also started reading Ex Machina and The Invisibles.

If I'm not mistaken Grant Morrison works on most of those titles...