Storm, Correcting Singer, and What Exactly?

[the a1ant]

Storm's character wasn't consistent. She was three different characters in the 3 different films, IMO. X1: Mature African (sounding) and nurturing, yet mousy. X2: American soccer mom, and leader. X3: Bada$$, and angry. Leads, but then lets Wolverine take over as leader. She changed drastically in each film, which is odd, lol. Still, I liked the character in all films. X1's Storm was closest to the comics. I didn't mind the accent. They should've kept it. As soon as the accent was missing, it was no longer 'Storm'...more like her distant cousin.

 

[gap5ewl]

You were on set? Wow, that's cool. You actually saw Singer saying to STorm, "You're showing too much emotion." Especially, since, you know, Singer had Cyclops collapse into Logan, who breaks down as he should at the end of X2.

I think you're off base. An actor/actress is free to do a bit with their lines. Unless all three directors of Die Another Day, Catwoman, Swordfish though Halle Berry should be emotionless too, then I'd say that we have a problem with Halle, not Bryan Singer.

You know this is why I hate it when you make a thread. Because when someone expresses an opposing opinion, you immediatly shoot it down as ridiculous like right now. Singer was the one who told her what to do when she started to power up Halle just didnt decide "Ok so when I power up, Im gonna have a blank expression on my face". The fact is directors tell the actors what to do and the actors are expected to deliver it the best way they can. And where did the showing too much emotion come from? I said she wasnt showing emotion when powering up but in X3 she did. Stop being so arrogant and sarcastic

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

The other thing is, he is in front of Jean... she can see him. And he'd have to scramble around looking for another cure dart. A dart that she could just destroy in less than the blink of an eye. So I don't think it would have been very possible to even try to stab her with a cure dart. It also would have wasted time that they didn't have for Wolverine to run around looking for a cure dart.

I personally wouldn't have even wanted to have seen her cured.

Either her personality is saved, and the Phoenix supressed, by the strength of Scott & Jean's love, or, since we didn't get that due to Cyclops' demise in the first 3rd of the film, she is killed.

After all, that is how it happens in the real Phoenix Saga, is it not?

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

been a while i've seen the phoenix saga, i should watch it again but didn't cyclops shoot her in the dark phoenix saga? sometimes I get that bit mixed up between the two sagas.

 

[Seen]

The other thing is, he is in front of Jean... she can see him. And he'd have to scramble around looking for another cure dart. A dart that she could just destroy in less than the blink of an eye. So I don't think it would have been very possible to even try to stab her with a cure dart. It also would have wasted time that they didn't have for Wolverine to run around looking for a cure dart.

Well, Wolverine could have already found a curt dart much like he and the rest of the X-Men did for Magneto. But he didn't give much regards to Jean until it was too late. Why didn't he think in forsight about Jean and just Magneto? Both were powerful, however Jean was by far the more powerful of the two.

I personally wouldn't have even wanted to have seen her cured.

I agree, but I would've liked to have seen Logan try.

Either her personality is saved, and the Phoenix supressed, by the strength of Scott & Jean's love, or, since we didn't get that due to Cyclops' demise in the first 3rd of the film, she is killed.

And one of those ways to save her personality and supress the Phoenix entity would have been to eliminate her powers completely.

After all, that is how it happens in the real Phoenix Saga, is it not?

Yes, but Xavier was able to at least quell Jean to a degree (which he couldn't manage in X3) in the Dark Phoenix Saga. And Jean didn't kill Xavier and Scott in the Dark Phoenix Saga. The writers took liberties with the source material, meaning more liberties could have been taken, no? I don't remember Jean having a multiple personality disorder in Claremont's run.

 

[ntcrawler]

Productions hire dialect coaches all the time when films call for them. Hugh Jackman had one for Wolverine for all 3 films. He had to harness his Aussie accent into a gruff Americanized tone. That's not easy. Are you saying that it's easier for an American actress to harness hers into a foreign tongue?

Now hold on, eh? Logan's supposed to be a Canadian. You know, Loonies and Toonies and Mickeys and Two-Fours and his hair flowing in the Chinook and drinking double-doubles at Tim Hortons, swearing when his garburator gets jammed or when he he has to wait in line at Canadian Tire

 

[Cyclops]

the whole movie was pointless. Jean is dead (just like in X2), Xavier is alive, Magneto is not cured. They just used this film to get rid of "unimportant and boring characters" like Rogue, Cyclops and Mystique.

Thats why i prefer to not take into account the last two little scenes. To me, Magneto is cured and Xavier is dead.

Bingo. You have pounded the nail in the coffin.

But there was a point to this movie. To line FOX executives' pockets.

 

[ntcrawler]

What's so important about killing Cyke? Oh yeah, to show that no one is safe from FOX.

 

[xstormfan]

i liked her portrayal in all three films, although i liked her in X3 the best. I think she was grossly underutilized in all the films , but when she did do something i generally liked it. Movie storm isn't comic storm but movie Wolverine isn't comic wolverine either, all the characters are different.

 

[Majik1387]

been a while i've seen the phoenix saga, i should watch it again but didn't cyclops shoot her in the dark phoenix saga? sometimes I get that bit mixed up between the two sagas.

In the comics and I'm pretty sure in TAS, Jean/Phoenix sacrifices herself.

 

[kg576094]

Storm didn't fly in all 3 movies like in the comics but she did levitate herself or hover on ground using the winds. The only one who did fly in the whole trilogy was Angel and isn't Storm supposed to fly much like that??

 

[ntcrawler]

The other thing is, he is in front of Jean... she can see him. And he'd have to scramble around looking for another cure dart. A dart that she could just destroy in less than the blink of an eye. So I don't think it would have been very possible to even try to stab her with a cure dart. It also would have wasted time that they didn't have for Wolverine to run around looking for a cure dart.

If you did it by force, it wouldn't work. If you could bring down her defenses and get her to let you do it, then it would work. She wants you to save her? Here's how you're going to save her. Don't be afraid, we're in this together, etc. There's no other way? Yes there is [stabs].

And tt's not that hard to find a cure dart. The ground was completely littered with them. Plus they had 4 to start out with. They didn't need to use all 4 on Magneto. talk about overkill. They could have used 2 on him, and saved the other two for Jean.

Hell, at least try. At least try to talk to her. reason with her. How about a single shout of support or encouragement or pleading? "Don't do this, Jean?" "Jean! Please don't do this!" "Jean! We Love you?"

Bunch of savages. But it doesn't surprise me. considering how they handled the loss of Scott, it doesn't surprise me how they handled Jean.

Either her personality is saved, and the Phoenix supressed, by the strength of Scott & Jean's love, or, since we didn't get that due to Cyclops' demise in the first 3rd of the film, she is killed.

To be honest, I'm starting to lean in that direction. I was always in favor of saving Jean, no matter what. But the only hope of her ever recovering and having a semi-normal life and redemption is to show that Scott is ineed alive. Without Scott, life's not worth living. It's really that simple. It's a mistake that can't be made. Like the classic game of thermonuclear warfare. The only solution is not to play.

 

[ntcrawler]

In the comics and I'm pretty sure in TAS, Jean/Phoenix sacrifices herself.

Actually IIRC, Jean is saved in TAS. They beat the Phoenix out of her.

 

[ntcrawler]

Well, Wolverine could have already found a curt dart much like he and the rest of the X-Men did for Magneto. But he didn't give much regards to Jean until it was too late. Why didn't he think in forsight about Jean and just Magneto? Both were powerful, however Jean was by far the more powerful of the two.

this is most interesting. Considering that going into battle no one had any plan with regards to what to do about Jean. The closest we see is in the novel when Shadowcat briefly considers throwing Leech at her, but 5 seconds later decides that wouldn't work. And that's really about it.

I agree, but I would've liked to have seen Logan try.

I would have liked to see at least someone at least talking to her. Shout out a few words or something. They all used to be close friends for years and years.

And one of those ways to save her personality and supress the Phoenix entity would have been to eliminate her powers completely.

She'd still be messed up psychologically, but at least by taking away her powers you eliminate the immediate danger. You reduce her from being an all-powerful deathly psycho to a psycho who can only hurt you with her fingernails and teeth. Definitely more favorable odds. Then you can tackle the psychological part of her problem. You are buying yourself time to solve the rest of the problem in a calm and rational manner. At least then she won't be able to to destroy the whole neighborhood.

Yes, but Xavier was able to at least quell Jean to a degree (which he couldn't manage in X3) in the Dark Phoenix Saga. And Jean didn't kill Xavier and Scott in the Dark Phoenix Saga. The writers took liberties with the source material, meaning more liberties could have been taken, no? I don't remember Jean having a multiple personality disorder in Claremont's run.

I don't either. But don't say that! Because that would mean that Ratner lied about every second of the movie correletating to a page in the comics. Shhhh!

 

[Seen]

If you did it by force, it wouldn't work. If you could bring down her defenses and get her to let you do it, then it would work. She wants you to save her? Here's how you're going to save her. Don't be afraid, we're in this together, etc. There's no other way? Yes there is [stabs].

And tt's not that hard to find a cure dart. The ground was completely littered with them. Plus they had 4 to start out with. They didn't need to use all 4 on Magneto. talk about overkill. They could have used 2 on him, and saved the other two for Jean.

Hell, at least try. At least try to talk to her. reason with her. How about a single shout of support or encouragement or pleading? "Don't do this, Jean?" "Jean! Please don't do this!" "Jean! We Love you?"

Bunch of savages. But it doesn't surprise me. considering how they handled the loss of Scott, it doesn't surprise me how they handled Jean.

Exactly. Brilliantly said. But talking would have prolonged the movie even more, and since Ratner can't mke any movements of subtle characterization or quiet time for introspective dialogue, anything relating to that would be just bad. It wouldn't jive with Ratner's "Next scene! Next scene!" mantra.

To be honest I'm starting to lean in that direction. I was always in favor of saving Jean, no matter what. But the only hope of her ever recovering and having a semi-normal life and redemption is to show that Scott is ineed alive. Without Scott, life's not worth living. It's really that simple. It's a mistake that can't be made. Like the classic game of thermonuclear warfare. The only solution is not to play.

Scott is just immensely crucial to the Dark Phoenix Saga period. Removing him, and you simply don't have the Dark Phoenix Saga at all, but an allusion of it. Which the Dark Phoenix subplot of X3 was.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Storm's character wasn't consistent. She was three different characters in the 3 different films, IMO. X1: Mature African (sounding) and nurturing, yet mousy. X2: American soccer mom, and leader. X3: Bada$$, and angry. Leads, but then lets Wolverine take over as leader. She changed drastically in each film, which is odd, lol. Still, I liked the character in all films. X1's Storm was closest to the comics. I didn't mind the accent. They should've kept it. As soon as the accent was missing, it was no longer 'Storm'...more like her distant cousin.

But the change was bound to happen espically in X2 and X3. With Jean dieing and Scott going emo, Storm had to step up her game since she basically now 1st in command.

 

[Seen]

this is most interesting. Considering that going into battle no one had any plan with regards to what to do about Jean. The closest we see is in the novel when Shadowcat briefly considers throwing Leech at her, but 5 seconds later decides that wouldn't work. And that's really about it.

Storm makes an allusion to doing "something" about Jean as they're about to board the X-Jet, but nowhere does she allude, "Hey, maybe we should talk about what we're going to do about Jean...like how we're going to save her."

But no. There's no consideration for her well-being. It's like, "Well, she's went berserk, killed the professor, now she's just gone completely." I mean, WTF? Is Jean not one of the founding members of the school, almost like a sister to Storm? And she's just going to accept the "fact" that she's gone to the "dark side" and can't come back? I was even a bit shocked that the X-Men didn't try and do anything about Pyro, since he was apart of that team once.

I would have liked to see at least someone at least talking to her. Shout out a few words or something. They all used to be close friends for years and years.

Talking is bad. It prolongs more action. Less talk, more action is Ratner's mantra.

She'd still be messed up psychologically, but at least by taking away her powers you eliminate the immediate danger. You reduce her from being an all-powerful deathly psycho to a psycho who can only hurt you with her fingernails and teeth. Definitely more favorable odds. Then you can tackle the psychological part of her problem. You are buying yourself time to solve the rest of the problem in a calm and rational manner. At least then she won't be able to to destroy the whole neighborhood.

Yep. And to think, Moira was included in the movie. Wouldn't her character have been of substance and use if at the end she was helping Jean reconcile her two personalities at Muir Island? That would've been cool.

I don't either. But don't say that! Because that would mean that Ratner lied about every second of the movie correletating to a page in the comics. Shhhh!

Oops, too late.

 

[Seen]

Actually IIRC, Jean is saved in TAS. They beat the Phoenix out of her.

So much for Ratner being a fan of TAS.

 

[ntcrawler]

Storm makes an allusion to doing "something" about Jean as they're about to board the X-Jet, but nowhere does she allude, "Hey, maybe we should talk about what we're going to do about Jean...like how we're going to save her."

I think it's because Wolverine was the leader and Storm was afraid of stepping on Great Leader's toes at that point.

But no. There's no consideration for her well-being. It's like, "Well, she's went berserk, killed the professor, now she's just gone completely."

Precisely. In fact it almost seems like the other chars are purposely keeping certain cast members away from Jean. Xavier tells Storm and Logan to stay away, he must go in alone. Logan tells Storm to stay away, only he can save Jean. Why? Was there something about Storm that made them want to keep those two apart?

I mean, WTF? Is Jean not one of the founding members of the school, almost like a sister to Storm?

Indeed she was. But then, so was Scott. And he was forgotten pretty quickly.

And she's just going to accept the "fact" that she's gone to the "dark side" and can't come back?

Pretty much, yeah. Look at what she says to Logan. "You're going after her because you love her!". WTF?

I was even a bit shocked that the X-Men didn't try and do anything about Pyro, since he was apart of that team once.

Good point. No mention of the fact about how ironic it is to have to fight against one of their own. Correction, TWO of their own. Magneto must have quite the charisma.

Talking is bad. It prolongs more action. Less talk, more action is Ratner's mantra.

Kill now, give speeches later?

Yep. And to think, Moira was included in the movie. Wouldn't her character have been of substance and use if at the end she was helping Jean reconcile her two personalities at Muir Island? That would've been cool.

That is a VERY interesting point! Moira, the mutation expert. And then there's Hank, the world's authority on biochemistry and no doubt with a physican's background as well. Both of which could have a reasonable understanding of what was wrong with Jean. But neither of these chars get to practice their scientific side. Hank is a politician. And Moira's purpose in the movie is.... I think I got it... to have yet another character in the movie as a nod to fans. Yes, that's it! And neither of these two mutation experts do anything about Jean either. Guess they weren't friends with her either. Neither of them certainly mentioned her.

 

[Seen]

I think it's because Wolverine was the leader and Storm was afraid of stepping on Great Leader's toes at that point.

Yeah, Wolverine. The "leader". Who the hell thought up of that? Wolverine is never the leader!

Precisely. In fact it almost seems like the other chars are purposely keeping certain cast members away from Jean. Xavier tells Storm and Logan to stay away, he must go in alone. Logan tells Storm to stay away, only he can save Jean. Why? Was there something about Storm that made them want to keep those two apart?

I personally think Storm might've been able to convince Jean a little not to listen to Erik. She is probably Jean's closest friend and companion besides Scott. She could've reasoned with Jean.

Good point. No mention of the fact about how ironic it is to have to fight against one of their own. Correction, TWO of their own. Magneto must have quite the charisma.

I understand Pyro. However little the X-Men did to try and get him back on their side. But Jean? C'mon. She's more than just a failed student. She's ONE OF THE X-MEN! She's part of the family.

Kill now, give speeches later?

More likely, Kill now, make sense later!

That is a VERY interesting point! Moira, the mutation expert. And then there's Hank, the world's authority on biochemistry and no doubt with a physican's background as well. Both of which could have a reasonable understanding of what was wrong with Jean. But neither of these chars get to practice their scientific side. Hank is a politician. And Moira's purpose in the movie is.... I think I got it... to have yet another character in the movie as a nod to fans. Yes, that's it! And neither of these two mutation experts do anything about Jean either. Guess they weren't friends with her either. Neither of them certainly mentioned her.

I found it odd that Hank was an old member of the team and "important" to the Xavier school and family but he barely mentions or cares about Jean. He barely offers any thoughts or theories as to how to solve Jean's condition or to help her in any way. But I think Kinberg and Penn's response to that was, "Yes, let's make him a secretary and politician, so he can't be used for that!". Brilliant move.

 

[gap5ewl]

Yeah, Wolverine. The "leader". Who the hell thought up of that? Wolverine is never the leader!

YES EXACTLY! WOlverine is the anti-hero thats his whole point not a cyclops wannabe

I found it odd that Hank was an old member of the team and "important" to the Xavier school and family but he barely mentions or cares about Jean. He barely offers any thoughts or theories as to how to solve Jean's condition or to help her in any way. But I think Kinberg and Penn's response to that was, "Yes, let's make him a secretary and politician, so he can't be used for that!". Brilliant move. :whatever

yeah what a uncaring family jeez. The only person they seemed to give a damn about was professor but that lasted like a day

 

[ntcrawler]

I personally think Storm might've been able to convince Jean a little not to listen to Erik. She is probably Jean's closest friend and companion besides Scott. She could've reasoned with Jean.

I'm surprised Xavier wasn't successful. Seems that whole mess could have been prevented with a single section of dialogue:

Xavier: Jean, Magneto's lying to you. He wants to use use you. He wouldn't hesitate to throw you away once he didn't need you, or try to destroy you. You saw what he did to Marie! Go ahead! Read his mind! See for yourself!

I can then see Jean slowly rising and walking up to Magneto, and quietly whispering for him to leave. Then defenestrating him out of her house. Which then proceeds into the street battle we saw earlier, triggered when Logan and Ororo see Magneto being tossed out the window. Back inside, Jean collapses on herself, mumbling "help me, what's wrong with me?" and perhaps Xavier gets a chance to try a more gentler, compassionate approach.

More likely, Kill now, make sense later!

Good point.

I found it odd that Hank was an old member of the team and "important" to the Xavier school and family but he barely mentions or cares about Jean. He barely offers any thoughts or theories as to how to solve Jean's condition or to help her in any way. But I think Kinberg and Penn's response to that was, "Yes, let's make him a secretary and politician, so he can't be used for that!". Brilliant move.

It's convenient. You take the scientist side away from him. It's another way to guarranty Jean's ultimate doom. If anything, Hank should have been salivating at the chance to get his hands on a vial of the cure or do a biopsy on someone who was cured just to see what effects and side effects it has. Then as one of the final scenes, show him in the lab, over a microscope, then suddenly pull back, declaring "oh my stars and garters, this does not look good!" and there you have one heck of a cliffhanger.

 

[DarknessOfDeath]

I remember Cyclops shoots her but that doesn't stop her until Xavier steps in and he contains the Phoenix in Jean, thus bringing Jean back...and then the shi'ar comes in and beams them up to their ship.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Actually Lightning, that's not entirely true. A large majority of twisters reveal themselves via a funnel descending from above and a debris cloud forming from below . . . much like in X2 . . . Haha. Albeit, I've never seen formations nearly as pristine as those featured in X2.

Here is a video illustrating what I'm talking about. It's pretty cool.

http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2006/tornado-born-p1.php

WHOA! That's amazing footage! I wasn't aware of that and I stand corrected.

However--can you find me a video of that upward spinning taking place plus another twin twister forming downward over the exact same spot and colliding? Perhaps with a plane in between them?

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Ok, well i think after these past months. Arguments about X3, Halle Berry, Storm and all that ***** has been going back and forth and there will never be a settled agreement. Not everyone is going to agree, i think that point was made very clear through post.

Was Halle Berry that best choice? In my opinion she did alright. Just because you think Angela Basset or any other actress would be good at a role you will never know until she actually plays out the role. Halle Berry i think she's good a drama. She isn't the first nor will she be the last actor to try out different things. Scary, dark movies ( Gothkia ) not her thing. Action ( James Bond, Catwomen, X-Men ) May not be her thing either. Doesn't make her a bad actress it means her strengths are in dramas.

Agreed on all accounts. And when you look at her recent selection of upcoming films i.e. Perfect Strangers (with Bruce Willis) and the-much-buzzed-about Things We Lost In The Fire (opposite fellow Oscar-Winner Benecio Del Toro) it's clear that Halle has also learned this lesson and is getting back to where she excels best in...which is not action films.

You have to admit in the comic especially lately that Storm has been treated like total *****. Because she's married to King T'Challa doesn't have an as active role as she use to. Even in Ultimate she's put in the background like she was in the beginning of the series.

Again, I must agree with you. Marvel has really started to treat Storm like utter crap in the continuum of late. It's been very dissapointing to watch her spiral out. Seems as if all of the best heroines of old i.e. Invisible Woman and Phoenix have been pushed back a bit or are going through major revisions. Storm is definitely in the background for now, but I have strong reason to believe that as in the case of other longtime favorites i.e. She-Hulk, Spider-Woman, Carol Danvers, etc., that she will return in a HUGE way once Marvel figures out what they're doing with her.