Storm, Correcting Singer, and What Exactly?

[Lightning Strykez!]

It's Halle's responsibility to learn how to act with an accent if the role calls for it, not the director's. Where does everyone get the idea that Singer was so obsessed with Storm having an accent and that he hated how Halle did it?

No. It's not her responsibility. That is on the studio's budget--Halle's salary wasn't covering it.

Productions hire dialect coaches all the time when films call for them. Hugh Jackman had one for Wolverine for all 3 films. He had to harness his Aussie accent into a gruff Americanized tone. That's not easy. Are you saying that it's easier for an American actress to harness hers into a foreign tongue?

It was important to Bryan that Hugh got the training necessary to sound convincing as Logan (and even Hugh was imperfect at times). It was NOT important for him to ensure Halle's accent was authentic. Simple as that.

I refuse to place blame for a job poorly done on an employee when her boss didn't provide training. Hell, I can't even mimic an African Accent. I wouldn't know where to start--would you?

Some talk as if actors have some hidden talent to take on these things like chameleons with no help whatsoever. It doesn't work that way. They may be good...but no one is that good. Actors need support and training too.

 

[Majik1387]

TKing, I understand what they're saying but "should" and "have to" are two different things.

It was important to Bryan that Hugh got the training necessary to sound convincing as Logan (and even Hugh was imperfect at times). It was NOT important for him to ensure Halle's accent was authentic. Simple as that.

Considering the amount of lines and screentime Hugh/Logan had, of course it was more important to him. I still don't know where people get the idea that Singer hated Berry's accent.

 

[flavio_lebeau]

its awesome how people complain to have Storm flying and then, when she does, they say its innacurate to the character. And we still want to have respect from the studios

Yes, the flight does look horrible, but hey, the global warming and September 11th are also Halle Berry's fault, why not blame her on the bad effects and wires in X3?

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

TKing, I understand what they're saying but "should" and "have to" are two different things.

If you want to pin the blame on the actor--go ahead.

But when you look at others like Hugh, Ioan Gruffudd (Mr. Fantastic of the Fantastic 4), etc., it is clear that FOX has no problem assigning coaches when necessary.

Maybe Bryan and Co. thought that learning an African accent was somehow easier than mastering the American language. Maybe they expected Halle to tap into the resources of her father's side of family (they're African-American you know) to reach back to the roots and learn it. Oh but wait...African-Americans usually don't have African accents.

That last statement was the dryest of sarcastic humor for those who might try to miss it.

 

[Majik1387]

You are comparing apples to oranges. Halle's Storm is not as definitive and out there as Hugh's Logan and Ioan's Reed were to their movies. And it has nothing to do with race so please stop trying to blame it on that.

 

[Lightning Strykez!]

Considering the amount of lines and screentime Hugh/Logan had, of course it was more important to him.

Let's see:

You only have one black actress in the entire ensemble. And she's playing the role of a foreigner. She's not Shoreh Ashadaloo--who has a natural accent to tap into--no, she's half-white, raised in suburban America and trying to convey that she's not from here. She's one of your core characters--a revered one for over 30 years.

Tell me again, why it wasn't important six years ago?

I still don't know where people get the idea that Singer hated Berry's accent.

That's simple: if he liked it, it would have stayed.

Okay, I'm done for today...someone else can jump on the fanboy soapbox. It's been fun as usual folks. Be safe...

 

[Majik1387]

You only have one black actress in the entire ensemble. And she's playing the role of a foreigner.

And we have an old bald white guy playing a bald old white guy, so what?

She's not Shoreh Ashadaloo--who has a natural accent to tap into--no, she's half-white, raised in suburban America and trying to convey that she's not from here.

And as an actress, she's supposed to make us believe she's someone else.

She's one of your core characters--a revered one for over 30 years.

She was not a core character in the movies which is why I know a lot of fans have been unhappy with her. Yeah she was there, but as a supporting character.
The core characters of the X-Movies have always been Wolverine, Professor Xavier, Magneto, and Jean.

 

[flavio_lebeau]

She was not a core character in the movies which is why I know a lot of fans have been unhappy with her. Yeah she was there, but as a supporting character.
The core characters of the X-Movies have always been Wolverine, Professor Xavier, Magneto, and Jean.

She is hardly a core character in the comics too. I dont read comics, but if im not mistaken, few stories rely on Storm. She's mostly the wise-woman-who-gives-advices-and-fights-also-providing-special-effects-bonanza. I, as a Storm fan, didnt expect her to suddenly take all the time (or Logan's time) in the story. I dont think the fact she's not up central was a problem. The problem was that, not being up-central, everyone just forgot that there was a person, a character inside that wigged creator of lightning. And that that character has one of the best personalities and nuances of the franchise.

 

[gap5ewl]

You basically just said that Halle Berry had a right to be displeased with her own inability to show emotion in Storm when portraying her....LOL. Did she show more emotion in X3, mind you?

Oh, yes, she didn't do anything big, she was just there. She just saved the world, flew the X_Men around, conjured up 20 tornados, and saved Professor X?

What else, mind you, was she suppose to do? Give me a solid example of what Storm not "just being there" would've looked like.

the director is the one who tells the actors how to act in the scene may i remind you...Berry is a good actress. And just because she had some awesome power scenes, doesnt mean she exactly was a major prominent character with depth.. She was pretty much just a "there"" character who had cool action scenes.

 

[Celestio]

You basically just said that Halle Berry had a right to be displeased with her own inability to show emotion in Storm when portraying her....LOL. Did she show more emotion in X3, mind you?

If you look at X3, Halle does a series of emotions with her face. Most notably, there is Jean Grey's house when we have a close up before she fires lightning at Callisto. Then we have the gritting of the teeth as she descends, and also when she fries Callisto on the fence.

Halle could have done all of these in X2 aswell, especially in the tornado scene. Singer must have told her to just stare blankly into the camera. If he was unhappy with it, he would have told her to add some facial expressions but he didn't. So we were left with the blank expressions which Singer must have been fine about.

 

[BMM]

But that's not what happened.

Natural Tornadoes form by spiraling downward. In that scene, a twister formed spinning northwards to meet another matching twin spinning downwards. So there were two twisters coalescing to form one. It was when the two forces struck the jet that the mis-matched inertia through it off course.

That entire sequence is unnatural--therefore it took precision on her part to make it happen. That other jet's pilot was simply quicker on the draw, but eventually, Storm created such a thick influx that it was simply overcome. Again, that was deliberate--as shown by the camera's focus on her eyes.

Actually Lightning, that's not entirely true. A large majority of twisters reveal themselves via a funnel descending from above and a debris cloud forming from below . . . much like in X2 . . . Haha. Albeit, I've never seen formations nearly as pristine as those featured in X2.

Here is a video illustrating what I'm talking about. It's pretty cool.

http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2006/tornado-born-p1.php

 

[Majik1387]

If you look at X3, Halle does a series of emotions with her face. Most notably, there is Jean Grey's house when we have a close up before she fires lightning at Callisto. Then we have the gritting of the teeth as she descends, and also when she fries Callisto on the fence.

Halle could have done all of these in X2 aswell, especially in the tornado scene. Singer must have told her to just stare blankly into the camera. If he was unhappy with it, he would have told her to add some facial expressions but he didn't. So we were left with the blank expressions which Singer must have been fine about.

Or Singer told Halle to look like she was concentrating on altering the weather.
In X2, during the tornado scene, she didn't grit her teeth or look angry because she wasn't trying to harm the fighter pilots, she was trying to get them off the X-Jets tail without anger as opposed to her trying to battle Callisto where she wasn't holding back her anger.

 

[SnowAngel]

Ok, well i think after these past months. Arguments about X3, Halle Berry, Storm and all that ***** has been going back and forth and there will never be a settled agreement. Not everyone is going to agree, i think that point was made very clear through post.

Was Halle Berry that best choice? In my opinion she did alright. Just because you think Angela Basset or any other actress would be good at a role you will never know until she actually plays out the role. Halle Berry i think she's good a drama. She isn't the first nor will she be the last actor to try out different things. Scary, dark movies ( Gothkia ) not her thing. Action ( James Bond, Catwomen, X-Men ) May not be her thing either. Doesn't make her a bad actress it means her strengths are in dramas.

I personally felt in the films that maybe the directors/producers/etc. didn't understand Storm. Like all the other characters there are different ways to interpret them and maybe they just didn't know what to do with her.

You have to admit in the comic especially lately that Storm has been treated like total *****. Because she's married to King T'Challa doesn't have an as active role as she use to. Even in Ultimate she's put in the background like she was in the beginning of the series.

 

[gap5ewl]

If you look at X3, Halle does a series of emotions with her face. Most notably, there is Jean Grey's house when we have a close up before she fires lightning at Callisto. Then we have the gritting of the teeth as she descends, and also when she fries Callisto on the fence.

Halle could have done all of these in X2 aswell, especially in the tornado scene. Singer must have told her to just stare blankly into the camera. If he was unhappy with it, he would have told her to add some facial expressions but he didn't. So we were left with the blank expressions which Singer must have been fine about.

Exactly..Singer could've simply said show some emotion when you're powering up. An actor cant just decide o well im gonna do this with my face or o well this is how im gonna act in this scene..no. The director tells the actor how they are going to act and how they are going to express their emotions. Singer seemed to just really not care about Halle's acting or Storm's role he just thaught o well she's powerful so ill just use her to create an unecessary amount of tornados two take down two fighter jets which ended up not working since one of them shot two missiles and struck the jet. Ratner gave storm a little more flare and more depth in her power usage and her opinion. Now Singer is a far more superior director and more Independent then Ratner however, Ratner did a better job with Storm then SInger did in X2.

 

[BMM]

You have to admit in the comic especially lately that Storm has been treated like total *****. Because she's married to King T'Challa doesn't have an as active role as she use to. Even in Ultimate she's put in the background like she was in the beginning of the series.

Actually, if you think about it, Storm usually receives the lamer storylines. She is never a pivotal character in the larger arcs like the Age of Apocalypse, the Dark Phoenix Saga, Fatal Attractions, Inferno, the Phoenix Saga, X-Cutioner's song, etc. Instead, she always receives bizarre side-plots that hardly ever seem to command the attention of her teammates . . . Dr. Doom, "Dracula" (or whatever that was about), being chased by Nanny attempting to revert her to a child and kidnap her, etc.

 

[javon]

well the way I see it...the reason Jean called out to Logan cause of their 'connection' in terms of who Logan was before he was just an animal with claws and how he can't remember his past and Jean felt sorry for him and on a side note, he was manipulated whereas Jean was also treated in a similiar way and Jean understood what Logan was going through. If you think back to the scene when Xavier talks to Logan about what he did to Jean, Logan goes on defensive on Jean's side cause he understood what Jean was going through and he can relate to that cause he's been there.

Umm...no. In the comics Storm and Jean talk about everything. Hell, Storm even knows a little somethin' somethin' about telepathy seeing as how Jean told her. Storm knows Jean like abook compared to how Logan knows her, and just because "their alike" isn't a good escuse at all. Storm and Jean showed no connection in the series at all but mister Logan, who hasn't even been apart of the team-nor Jeans life-for 2 years comes in and can put up a more demanding arguement than Ororo-who has known her for so many years that she is closer to her than a "sister". How he was able to get a better sense of Jean than Storm is beyond me. Is he psychic? I think now .

Originally posted by Majik1387
Or Singer told Halle to look like she was concentrating on altering the weather.
In X2, during the tornado scene, she didn't grit her teeth or look angry because she wasn't trying to harm the fighter pilots, she was trying to get them off the X-Jets tail without anger as opposed to her trying to battle Callisto where she wasn't holding back her anger.

Doesn't matter, she still would have had some sort of expression. Now I find nothing wrong with it, I'm just going from what ya'll were saying. Now Storm, in the comics, doesn't play when it comes to someone harming her family (i.e: creating Elemental Cosmic Turbulence to save the earth, lightning so bright it lit up the entire Manhatten city, and a pressure dome to block falling rocks and blasting through a mountain). so I KNOW she just won't be staring into lala land if 2 firefighting jets are attacking them.

 

[Seen]

I've always wondered this...why didn't Logan just cure Jean? I mean, he could've snuck it behind his back or something (he did it with Magneto, or better yet, Beast did) and then Jean would've returned to normal. Would she have to suffer for the damages and killing that she did? Maybe. But I think her ending up in a jail, as a human, would've been more dramatic than just dying all over again.

Look at it. Logan cures Jean. She's put in jail because of what she did. But Logan visits, still determined to rehabilitate her. And maybe, when Logan leaves the mental instiuition that she's staying at, Phoenix-flames reside in Jean's eyes, hinting that quite possibly the Dark Phoenix entity is still presiding within Jean.

Anyway, if you didn't want to go that route, and you thought, "Hey, Dark Phoenix is too powerful for the cure", then I would've liked to have seen Logan at least TRY to give her the cure. I mean, he did it to Magneto, the villain. Jean wasn't necessarily the villain but the tragically controlled person who acts out in violence because one doesn't have the choice. Just murdering Jean sort of showed that Logan (and the X-Men) didn't try hard enough to bring Jean back from the "dark side"...I think curing her (or at least trying to) would've done that.

 

[gap5ewl]

I've always wondered this...why didn't Logan just cure Jean? I mean, he could've snuck it behind his back or something (he did it with Magneto, or better yet, Beast did) and then Jean would've returned to normal. Would she have to suffer for the damages and killing that she did? Maybe. But I think her ending up in a jail, as a human, would've been more dramatic than just dying all over again.

Look at it. Logan cures Jean. She's put in jail because of what she did. But Logan visits, still determined to rehabilitate her. And maybe, when Logan leaves the mental instiuition that she's staying at, Phoenix-flames reside in Jean's eyes, hinting that quite possibly the Dark Phoenix entity is still presiding within Jean.

Anyway, if you didn't want to go that route, and you thought, "Hey, Dark Phoenix is too powerful for the cure", then I would've liked to have seen Logan at least TRY to give her the cure. I mean, he did it to Magneto, the villain. Jean wasn't necessarily the villain but the tragically controlled person who acts out in violence because one doesn't have the choice. Just murdering Jean sort of showed that Logan (and the X-Men) didn't try hard enough to bring Jean back from the "dark side"...I think curing her (or at least trying to) would've done that.

well i for one would not want to live knowing that i have another personality and that i killed two important people in my life and then 100's of mutants and soldiers. I think that Jean wanted to kill herself in X2 because she knew what was going to happen with her but the Phoenix took over her body and hence why she survived.

 

[The Weather God]

She is hardly a core character in the comics too. I dont read comics, but if im not mistaken, few stories rely on Storm.

Umm What comic book have you been reading? Oh you just contradicted yourself and said you've never read them. Your post mean's nothing now.

Did we know or did they use the DR in 1 or 2? No, so we weren't technically introduced to it until 3. Plus I doubt she practices hovering each individual team member in the DR.

They never showed the danger room but it had to have been there already for them to even know how to train. Where would it come from all of a sudden in x3? and not levitating someone but lifting objects. Storm was even able to do this earlyer on in the comics.

 

[Primal Slayer]

ohwell, I loved Halle has Storm. The movie changed the charecters enough from the comics that they are basically just alternate versions of themselves. I wish Storm was more important but cant get everything you want.

If it wasnt important enough for them to convey Storms blue eyes, what makes people think that having Storms accent be there as important?

In the end you cant please everyone, there will always be people out there who hated Halle in the role and you have people who love her in it.

If a differnet actress had played the role, it most likely would have come out the same as Halles, just with a different voice since she just recieted the lines that were on her script. Its the directors job to change something that he doesnt like, so they must have been fine with the way that Halle was playing the charecter.

 

[Seen]

well i for one would not want to live knowing that i have another personality and that i killed two important people in my life and then 100's of mutants and soldiers. I think that Jean wanted to kill herself in X2 because she knew what was going to happen with her but the Phoenix took over her body and hence why she survived.

Yes, but Jean did say, at the end of X3, "Save me", and not "Kill me". I think Jean wanted to be saved. I also think it would've been more dramatic for Jean to live -- knowing that she contributed to the deaths of so many people would've added so much thematic weight to her character.

And my point was that Logan probably should've done more to save her, hence my suggestion he use the cure.

 

[bosef982]

Actually Lightning, that's not entirely true. A large majority of twisters reveal themselves via a funnel descending from above and a debris cloud forming from below . . . much like in X2 . . . Haha. Albeit, I've never seen formations nearly as pristine as those featured in X2.

Here is a video illustrating what I'm talking about. It's pretty cool.

http://www.boreme.com/boreme/funny-2006/tornado-born-p1.php

See, I knew this wasn't so unbelievable. I remember seeing something about this on TV, not X-related, but related nonetheless.

So, now that we've gotten that little morsel out of the way...

 

[bosef982]

Exactly..Singer could've simply said show some emotion when you're powering up. An actor cant just decide o well im gonna do this with my face or o well this is how im gonna act in this scene..no. The director tells the actor how they are going to act and how they are going to express their emotions. Singer seemed to just really not care about Halle's acting or Storm's role he just thaught o well she's powerful so ill just use her to create an unecessary amount of tornados two take down two fighter jets which ended up not working since one of them shot two missiles and struck the jet. Ratner gave storm a little more flare and more depth in her power usage and her opinion. Now Singer is a far more superior director and more Independent then Ratner however, Ratner did a better job with Storm then SInger did in X2.

You were on set? Wow, that's cool. You actually saw Singer saying to STorm, "You're showing too much emotion." Especially, since, you know, Singer had Cyclops collapse into Logan, who breaks down as he should at the end of X2.

I think you're off base. An actor/actress is free to do a bit with their lines. Unless all three directors of Die Another Day, Catwoman, Swordfish though Halle Berry should be emotionless too, then I'd say that we have a problem with Halle, not Bryan Singer.

 

[Nell2ThaIzzay]

Yes, but Jean did say, at the end of X3, "Save me", and not "Kill me". I think Jean wanted to be saved. I also think it would've been more dramatic for Jean to live -- knowing that she contributed to the deaths of so many people would've added so much thematic weight to her character.

And my point was that Logan probably should've done more to save her, hence my suggestion he use the cure.

She said "Kill me" in the infirmary.

And did you notice the look of pleasure and release on her face when he stabbed her?

She wanted to die. She may have said "Save me", but the only way to save her was for her to die.

She was trapped in that body... sure you could cure her, but the Dark Phoenix persona would still be there, possibly even more angered than before, and Jean would still not be saved. She'd still be trapped in that body, controlled by the "evil" side.

 

[Seen]

She said "Kill me" in the infirmary.

Yes, but Logan didn't. And that was after she killed Scott. I do think Logan felt that she was still salvageable and maybe didn't towards the end, but at least he should have tried to cure her. To exhaust all of his options.

And did you notice the look of pleasure and release on her face when he stabbed her?

Yes. That was also Jean's desire. There were other options, options that I don't think Logan exploited.

She wanted to die. She may have said "Save me", but the only way to save her was for her to die.

She was trapped in that body... sure you could cure her, but the Dark Phoenix persona would still be there, possibly even more angered than before, and Jean would still not be saved. She'd still be trapped in that body, controlled by the "evil" side.

Well, since the Dark Phoenix subplot was different from the comic-book, we can't really say whether or not it would have vanquished or not, but since the Phoenix originated as an alternate personality, and not as an existential force inhibiting Jean, I think it wasn't powers endowed to her, but just her powers enhanced because of Jean's repressed emotional and psychological state.

If she was given the cure, she would have been stripped of all of her powers. Yes, her "evil" side would still be present, but it would be less of a threat if not able to disincarnate everything around her. And I think mental rehabilitation could've helped Jean reconcile those two, separate identities and form them back into one. It was definitely the thing Xavier should have done, versus just repressing one and hoping it wouldn't come back to bite him in the butt.