Supergirl Supergirl General Discussion Thread - Part 7

[Kelly]

So, what you're saying is they shipped the show to a smaller network, slashed costs, and moved the shooting to an entirely different country because the ratings were fine?

You have a storied history of failing to properly interpret PR speak, and this is yet another case. Network presidents don't make a habit of pointing out their own mistakes in public, nor do they make a habit of running afoul of fanbases. If they had come out and said Supergirl failed to meet expectations, it would be an admission that they miscalculated its potential.

If Supergirl has been successful based on the expectations CBS laid out for it, it would still be on CBS. That should be self-evident.

Why did they pick up the show in the first place? Because they thought it would drive ratings.

Why did they choose to pay the licensing fee, shoot in an expensive city, give it the best lead-in they could muster, and promote it heavily? Just so they could pass it over to another network, where they will now have to compete with it on Mondays?

If Supergirl's ratings were good for CBS, there would be no reason to discuss moving to Vancouver or changing networks.

I think you are correct in all of this, but I also think that CBS laid out criteria that was far above any new show, and the bottom line was indeed not getting the tax credit in California....I think had they gotten that tax credit they would have given it "at the least" one more season. BUT, it very well could have been an abbreviated season like "Code Black" is getting, and probably would not make it to a 3rd season. WHEREAS, on the CW, I think it as a very good chance of getting a 3rd season and it is in MUCH FRIENDLIER water with people that know what they hell they are doing with a show like this.....CBS had no clue.

The ratings were not that bad, it had to have been other things, and I think losing that tax credit was HUGE....

TOP NEW DRAMA | 18-49 DEMO
1 | Blindspot, NBC (3.1, including any available Live+7 DVR playback)
2 | Quantico, ABC (2.6)
3 | Lucifer, FOX (2.4)
4 | Supergirl, CBS (2.4; moving to The CW)
5 | Chicago Med, NBC (2.3)
5 | Shades of Blue, NBC (2.3)
In Total Viewers | Blindspot (10.8 million)

TOP-RATED CANCELLED SHOWS | 18-49 DEMO
1 | Limitless, CBS (2.2, including any available Live+7 DVR playback)
2 | Heroes Reborn, NBC (2.2)
3 | Mike & Molly, CBS (2.0)
4 | Angel From Hell, CBS (1.9)
5 | The Muppets, ABC (1.9)
In Total Viewers | Limitless, CBS (9.8 million)

CBS, literally had other problems they were looking at....WHO KNOWS what those were, but for shows that did DAMN GOOD in the Upfronts AND STILL didn't get picked up as new series, because they were "skewed too female" CBS has some issues....and unless they fully owned the shows, they were not willing to do much for them.... I think one thing they wanted Limitless AND Supergirl to do was bring in a younger audience and neither did that to the expectations of the PTB.....AND, I also do not think that they wanted anything left of the Nina Tassler run as President.

I think there were so many things in the make up of last years shows on CBS that who knows what the final reason actually was, but since it was "last minute" that the Tax Credit fell through, and as we now know it was also last minute that CW picked up the show....I think far more than ratings were at play.

 

[Kelly]

A few more BTS photos...thank you to TheFlashUniverse.com

 

[C. Lee]

Did anyone else on here used to watch JAG? I loved it. I watched it for it's entire ONE year run on NBC. Good show....really wished it had continued.

Uh....what? It moved to CBS and ran for another 9 years? Shows can't succeed if they move networks.....

 

[famicommander]

Did anyone else on here used to watch JAG? I loved it. I watched it for it's entire ONE year run on NBC. Good show....really wished it had continued.

Uh....what? It moved to CBS and ran for another 9 years? Shows can't succeed if they move networks.....

Nobody is making a claim remotely similar to that. I have full confidence that Supergirl will be a success on The CW. I have stated as such dozens of times.

The issue is whether or not it was as success for CBS... and the fact that it isn't on that network anymore pretty much tells you that it wasn't.

If it were a success for CBS, CBS would still want it. Period.

Whether or not it's a success for Warner Bros is a different matter entirely (and I think it is), as is whether or not it will be a success for CW (and again, I think it will be).

 

[BH/HHH]

Something tells me we're getting...

Spoiler

Two versions of Mettalo, I wonder if we'll be getting both Roger and John Corben. After all the two actors we've seen in the BTS pics may not look alike but they could always be half siblings or one could be adopted.

 

[famicommander]

I think you are correct in all of this, but I also think that CBS laid out criteria that was far above any new show, and the bottom line was indeed not getting the tax credit in California....I think had they gotten that tax credit they would have given it "at the least" one more season. BUT, it very well could have been an abbreviated season like "Code Black" is getting, and probably would not make it to a 3rd season. WHEREAS, on the CW, I think it as a very good chance of getting a 3rd season and it is in MUCH FRIENDLIER water with people that know what they hell they are doing with a show like this.....CBS had no clue.

The ratings were not that bad, it had to have been other things, and I think losing that tax credit was HUGE....

TOP NEW DRAMA | 18-49 DEMO
1 | Blindspot, NBC (3.1, including any available Live+7 DVR playback)
2 | Quantico, ABC (2.6)
3 | Lucifer, FOX (2.4)
4 | Supergirl, CBS (2.4; moving to The CW)
5 | Chicago Med, NBC (2.3)
5 | Shades of Blue, NBC (2.3)
In Total Viewers | Blindspot (10.8 million)

TOP-RATED CANCELLED SHOWS | 18-49 DEMO
1 | Limitless, CBS (2.2, including any available Live+7 DVR playback)
2 | Heroes Reborn, NBC (2.2)
3 | Mike & Molly, CBS (2.0)
4 | Angel From Hell, CBS (1.9)
5 | The Muppets, ABC (1.9)
In Total Viewers | Limitless, CBS (9.8 million)

CBS, literally had other problems they were looking at....WHO KNOWS what those were, but for shows that did DAMN GOOD in the Upfronts AND STILL didn't get picked up as new series, because they were "skewed too female" CBS has some issues....and unless they fully owned the shows, they were not willing to do much for them.... I think one thing they wanted Limitless AND Supergirl to do was bring in a younger audience and neither did that to the expectations of the PTB.....AND, I also do not think that they wanted anything left of the Nina Tassler run as President.

I think there were so many things in the make up of last years shows on CBS that who knows what the final reason actually was, but since it was "last minute" that the Tax Credit fell through, and as we now know it was also last minute that CW picked up the show....I think far more than ratings were at play.

Nothing changed for CBS from the time they picked up the show to the time the tax credit fell through. The fact that they were relying on the tax credit in the first place should tell you that the series wasn't looked at as a success for CBS's purposes.

CBS knew how much the license fee would be
CBS knew what the costs of filming in Los Angeles woud be
CBS knew they didn't own the show

And they picked it up for series anyway. When they picked it up, they expected that the ad revenue generated by the show would eclipse all of the costs associated.

Obviously that wasn't the case, which is why the notion of moving filming or changing networks came about in the first place.

Even if the show HAD stayed on CBS, a change in filming location is an immediate indicator that the show didn't take off as well as they had hoped it would.

The "hit" shows on other networks aren't relying on last minute tax credits to keep going. They're not looking to dump them off on smaller networks or move filming to an entirely different country.

 

[Kelly]

I think what CBS wanted and sees as "success" is a little different from one show to the next...

The fact that it was not far behind the others as far as their networks were concerned "successful" shows ... shows that CBS has a different mentality, and was looking for specific things from "Limitless" and "Supergirl".

Hell, CBS is KNOWN for not wanting to spend a whole lot on its shows. It spends less than any of the other networks, so for Supergirl to be "successful" in their eyes it had to perform above the other new shows....and it didn't. Plain and simple, but that doesn't mean it wasn't successful, tied for #3 out of all of the new scripted shows is not "unsuccessful" for sure...lol

 

[famicommander]

I think what CBS wanted and sees as "success" is a little different from one show to the next...

The fact that it was not far behind the others as far as their networks were concerned "successful" shows ... shows that CBS has a different mentality, and was looking for specific things from "Limitless" and "Supergirl".

Hell, CBS is KNOWN for not wanting to spend a whole lot on its shows. It spends less than any of the other networks, so for Supergirl to be "successful" in their eyes it had to perform above the other new shows....and it didn't. Plain and simple, but that doesn't mean it wasn't successful, tied for #3 out of all of the new scripted shows is not "unsuccessful" for sure...lol

Again, success is relative.

If a show has higher costs associated with it, there is a correlating higher bar for success.

iZombie is more successful than, say, Limitless despite the latter doing 3-5X the ratings. Because iZombie performed well enough relative to its network size and budget to get renewed and Limitless didn't.

Supergirl didn't deliver high enough ratings to overcome all the other factors and costs involved. CBS knew what said costs would be, expected Supergirl to overcome them, and it didn't. That's why it's on a new network and filming in a new location. If it were a success on CBS's terms it would still be on CBS.

 

[Kelly]

Again, success is relative.

If a show has higher costs associated with it, there is a correlating higher bar for success.

iZombie is more successful than, say, Limitless despite the latter doing 3-5X the ratings. Because iZombie performed well enough relative to its network size and budget to get renewed and Limitless didn't.

Supergirl didn't deliver high enough ratings to overcome all the other factors and costs involved. CBS knew what said costs would be, expected Supergirl to overcome them, and it didn't. That's why it's on a new network and filming in a new location. If it were a success on CBS's terms it would still be on CBS.

I don't think anyone is arguing that....

 

[famicommander]

That's exactly what this entire argument was about. Supergirl's relative success versus the other comic book shows on television, and whether or not the change to CW/Vancouver had to do with ratings.

Obviously Supergirl was less successful than iZombie, Flash, Arrow, Legends, Preacher, SHIELD, Gotham, Lucifer, etc. And obviously if Supergirl had done amazing ratings it would still be on CBS.

That's what this whole thing has been about.

 

[Sithborg]

That's exactly what this entire argument was about. Supergirl's relative success versus the other comic book shows on television, and whether or not the change to CW/Vancouver had to do with ratings.

Obviously Supergirl was less successful than iZombie, Flash, Arrow, Legends, Preacher, SHIELD, Gotham, Lucifer, etc. And obviously if Supergirl had done amazing ratings it would still be on CBS.

That's what this whole thing has been about.

A show doesn't have to be a failure in order for it to not fit with how the head of the channel feels like what the channel should be about. I mean, the only reason why we still have Supernatural despite the one head of the CW wanting to go hard core for the teen drama, was because it was just too successful to cancel.

Sometimes a show can do well, but still not be a good fit.

 

[Kelly]

That's exactly what this entire argument was about. Supergirl's relative success versus the other comic book shows on television, and whether or not the change to CW/Vancouver had to do with ratings.

Obviously Supergirl was less successful than iZombie, Flash, Arrow, Legends, Preacher, SHIELD, Gotham, Lucifer, etc. And obviously if Supergirl had done amazing ratings it would still be on CBS.

That's what this whole thing has been about.

Ok...

 

[Dark Raven]

A few more BTS photos...thank you to TheFlashUniverse.com
]

What's this disco dance they're doing?

 

[BH/HHH]

That's exactly what this entire argument was about. Supergirl's relative success versus the other comic book shows on television, and whether or not the change to CW/Vancouver had to do with ratings.

Obviously Supergirl was less successful than iZombie, Flash, Arrow, Legends, Preacher, SHIELD, Gotham, Lucifer, etc. And obviously if Supergirl had done amazing ratings it would still be on CBS.

That's what this whole thing has been about.

I'm confused, how was it less succesful than those shows listed? It got better ratings than those shows (maybe bar a few like Preacher as I have no clue what their ratings were).

 

[TheRedWraith]

I'm confused, how was it less succesful than those shows listed? It got better ratings than those shows (maybe bar a few like Preacher as I have no clue what their ratings were).

Because those shows didn't face cancellation and weren't forced to move to a different network to survive.

 

[famicommander]

I'm confused, how was it less succesful than those shows listed? It got better ratings than those shows (maybe bar a few like Preacher as I have no clue what their ratings were).

Again, you have to compare a show with other shows on their respective networks and also take into account budget. If a show has a huge viewer base but loses money and gets cancelled or shoved to a lesser network it can't be considered a success. Each network has its own standards.

On CBS Supergirl averaged a 1.68, and it wasn't considered good enough for them to keep the show. On CW, it could literally score half that number and still get renewed.

Conversely, The Flash averages about a 1.4 on CW. That number would likely get it axed on CBS and would barely squeeze by on NBC, but the show is still a huge success because it is doing better than any other show CW has ever had.

You also have to consider that just being on the biggest network (CBS) inflated Supergirl's audience. There's no telling how well Flash would do on a larger network.

So just comparing raw numbers across different networks is totally useless. Supergirl was being judged by CBS for its performance relative to other CBS shows, not for its performance relative to shows on other networks.

 

[Dark Raven]

Do people think Supergirl will average a 1.6 on the CW like it did on CBS? Or will it be lower even than the Flash?

 

[Kelly]

Do people think Supergirl will average a 1.6 on the CW like it did on CBS? Or will it be lower even than the Flash?

My guess is that it will be between Flash and Arrow...will it average 1.6? no, probably not, though it will quite possibly hit that in the first 2 episodes.

 

[famicommander]

Do people think Supergirl will average a 1.6 on the CW like it did on CBS? Or will it be lower even than the Flash?

Absolutely no chance it averages a 1.6.

It will likely average in the 1.0-1.3 range.

I think it is very doubtful it will beat Flash in the final season average. Flash is ridiculously consistent and is way, way above the norm for CW. The #2 show on CW is Arrow, which averaged a 0.94 last year. Arrow's all time series high is 1.41, which is from the Flash crossover episode. Arrow has never been above a 1.3 without Flash, even for the series premiere.

Flash actually bumped Supergirl's ratings significantly for the crossover last year -- almost 33%. The other episodes of Supergirl from the end of last season actually did about the same as Flash episodes were doing on the much smaller CW, indicating that Supergirl will likely suffer some from the change.

My best guess for a season average for the CW DC shows this year
The Flash: 1.35
Supergirl: 1.16
Arrow: 0.92
Legends of Tomorrow: 0.77
iZombie: 0.50

Also, to correct my stat from earlier, Supergirl actually averaged a 1.68 last year, not a 1.6.

 

[justlooking]

Do people think Supergirl will average a 1.6 on the CW like it did on CBS? Or will it be lower even than the Flash?

Good question. Will people the follow the show to a new network or do they have a loyalty to CBS? Were they really a fan of the show? I'd like to think they would follow the show. With the reduced CW coverage would the show be capable of 1.6+?

 

[famicommander]

Good question. Will people the follow the show to a new network or do they have a loyalty to CBS? Were they really a fan of the show? I'd like to think they would follow the show. With the reduced CW coverage would the show be capable of 1.6+?

A show would have to be a monster hit to pull a 1.6 average on the CW in 2016-2017. It would have to be for CW what Empire is for Fox or Big Bang is for CBS -- an absolute phenomenon.

 

[Dark Raven]

Well the question is why couldn't it still pull a 1.6 average if it did so before on CBS? If it's a hit on one station, shouldn't it still be a hit on another station? It's still the same show, unless it turns out to be drastically different on the CW.

 

[Thome216]

Did anyone else on here used to watch JAG? I loved it. I watched it for it's entire ONE year run on NBC. Good show....really wished it had continued.

Uh....what? It moved to CBS and ran for another 9 years? Shows can't succeed if they move networks.....

Yeah, I use to love watching that show!! Catherine Bell!!

For Supergirl, all I care about is that it was doing good in the ratings, and now it's going to its 'forever home,' on the CW. Awesome!

 

[Dark Raven]

Yeah, I use to love watching that show!! Catherine Bell!!

For Supergirl, all I care about is that it was doing good in the ratings, and now it's going to its 'forever home,' on the CW. Awesome!

I far preferred JAG to NCIS, which seems to have taken over CBS and given it a rather dull and somewhat staid feel.

Wonder Woman also went from ABC to CBS in the 70s, but there was a change in direction, going from a WWII setting to modern day.

I don't know if Supergirl might be more edgy now that it's no longer on CBS. I just hope they use the same theme music on its new channel and not that we find lots have changed.

 

[famicommander]

Well the question is why couldn't it still pull a 1.6 average if it did so before on CBS? If it's a hit on one station, shouldn't it still be a hit on another station? It's still the same show, unless it turns out to be drastically different on the CW.

Different networks have different audiences, and unless a show is a cultural phenomenon (ala Walking Dead) it's inherently limited by the ceiling of a given network's audience.

Fewer people watch CW than CBS. That's all there is to it. CBS is watched by the most people and it has the widest distribution. The lowest rated shows on CBS would be considered hits on CW.

On the plus side, CW's audience is much, much younger than CBS's. Supergirl will likely have a drop of a few million viewers per week, but it won't show as much in the ratings because a lot of the CBS viewers are outside of the 18-49 demographic in the first place. Supergirl will also benefit from the audience that CW has cultivated since the launch of Arrow. In terms of genre and target audience it's obviously much closer to Flash, iZombie, Arrow, and Legends than stuff like NCIS or Criminal Minds.

That's what makes Flash so incredible. It's doing about 50% higher than the #2 show on the network, and 300% higher than the median.

That 1.68 average on CBS was also heavily frontloaded. They gave it a huge lead in for its first episode and heavily promoted it. Supergirl debuted to a massive 3.15 rating last year and never came close to it again.
http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/supergirl-season-one-ratings-39121/