Superman SPOILER Review Thread (NO TAGS NECESSARY)

[The Guard]

I just sort of assumed it was some kind of mnemonic thing, that Ultraman had been brainwashed into acting a certain way when he heard a trigger code or something.

 

[flickchick85]

Well after 5 viewings I've pinpointed my "bathroom break" moment: the anti-proton river. The only action scene I don't care for in the movie. Ugly to look at and drags on too long imo. The rest of the pocket universe stuff before and after it is gold though.

 

[Lily Adler]

So since we got Donnerverse Krypton, will we get the Phantom Zone being the mirror again?

 

[flickchick85]

So since we got Donnerverse Krypton, will we get the Phantom Zone being the mirror again?

Not quite Donnerverse Krypton. Donnerverse crystal palace Fortress, sure, but the tech and robots are different. And we haven't actually seen Krypton. Hopefully we'll get a good look at it in Supergirl.

I imagine the Phantom Zone would be more Morrison-like here.

 

[hopefuldreamer]

Well after 5 viewings I've pinpointed my "bathroom break" moment: the anti-proton river. The only action scene I don't care for in the movie. Ugly to look at and drags on too long imo. The rest of the pocket universe stuff before and after it is gold though.

I actually love that! Think its gorgeous to look at! I find the nano bite suffocation scene much less fun personally.

I time my bathroom break around the time of the 'where's the dog' scene cause I know I can watch the majority of that at home

 

[BobJM]

Well after 5 viewings I've pinpointed my "bathroom break" moment: the anti-proton river. The only action scene I don't care for in the movie. Ugly to look at and drags on too long imo. The rest of the pocket universe stuff before and after it is gold though.

Agreed; it’s the weakest ‘episode’ IMO. But at least it ends on a high note with Superman saving the group from the blackhole.

 

[Deck Rickard]

I loved all the anti-proton river/pocket universe stuff. It was so weird and goofy and unlike your typical big city/world-ending scenario. I can see why it might not work for some fans but I love the zany visuals.

 

[Primal Slayer]

Well after 5 viewings I've pinpointed my "bathroom break" moment: the anti-proton river. The only action scene I don't care for in the movie. Ugly to look at and drags on too long imo. The rest of the pocket universe stuff before and after it is gold though.

Yeah, probably my least favorite part of the film. WIsh they would have re-worked that. The baby as well.

 

[Lily Adler]

Not quite Donnerverse Krypton. Donnerverse crystal palace Fortress, sure, but the tech and robots are different. And we haven't actually seen Krypton. Hopefully we'll get a good look at it in Supergirl.

I imagine the Phantom Zone would be more Morrison-like here.

I figured with the white robes and crystals we were gonna get something similar to Donner's or at least post-Donner inspired Silver Age.

 

[Superark]

Watched it for the third time today. I love it more after each viewing. The pacing works better after every watch as well.

I'm definitely convinced that Gunn is going to revisit the Jor-El message and we are going to find out Brainanc tampered with it. The fact Brainanc was considered for main villain of this film solidifies it for me.

That Pa Kent scene with Clark hits harder every time. Beautifully acted. Originally Pruitt had all of my focus, but Corenswet put in some excellent subtle reactions in this scene when Pa was imparting his wisdom.

I think I hated Kara saying "*****" even more after another viewing. Call me old fashioned, but I hate this kind of talk. I hope she isn't this foul mouthed in her solo film.

 

[Scarlet Spider]

Gunn doubled down on the Jor-El message today and was adamant he's not going to change it.

 

[Superark]

Gunn doubled down on the Jor-El message today and was adamant he's not going to change it.

I read his interview with Rolling Stone after your comment.. interesting.

I'll be curious if Gunn sticks with that. It's not like he hasn't lied or changed his mind in the past when discussing certain topics about the DCU. For now, I'll take him at his word.

I don't mind the Els being more cold in this iteration, but I hate the idea of his parents telling Superman to kill whoever stands in his way.

 

[Lily Adler]

Gunn doubled down on the Jor-El message today and was adamant he's not going to change it.

Evil Jor-El is en vogue at the moment. The comics are doing their own attempt at it. I had the same idea, but wanted it as an Elseworlds tale.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Evil Jor-El is en vogue at the moment. The comics are doing their own attempt at it. I had the same idea, but wanted it as an Elseworlds tale.

I’m mixed on evil Jor-El and Lara but I think Gunn could do something interesting with it. If it leads to Brainiac and/or the Eradicator in a satisfying way, then I’ll probably be happy with that. But I also hope it’s not just there to set up the ne next big bad. I think it could lead to an interesting, multi-film journey for Clark and maybe he’s able to somehow reach through time to turn his parents away from a dark path or perhaps learn more about why they sought to do what they did.

I get the criticisms of it, especially with the Omni-Man comparisons but Omni-Man (and all Superman archetypes, good or evil) borrow from Superman so I guess it’s okay to borrow back from them.

 

[Lily Adler]

I’m mixed on evil Jor-El and Lara but I think Gunn could do something interesting with it. If it leads to Brainiac and/or the Eradicator in a satisfying way, then I’ll probably be happy with that. But I also hope it’s not just there to set up the ne next big bad. I think it could lead to an interesting, multi-film journey for Clark and maybe he’s able to somehow reach through time to turn his parents away from a dark path or perhaps learn more about why they sought to do what they did.

I get the criticisms of it, especially with the Omni-Man comparisons but Omni-Man (and all Superman archetypes, good or evil) borrow from Superman so I guess it’s okay to borrow back from them.

Oh Lord the Eradicator is created by his parents to ensure he fulfills the harem.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Oh Lord the Eradicator is created by his parents to ensure he fulfills the harem.

I mean, it would kind of fit. If Jor-El built the Eradicator as some sort of eugenics device to weed out Kal-El’s spawn that he deemed “unworthy” Kryptonians, that would be pretty ****ing evil. And thats kind of what his original purpose was in the comics. Of course, if they go that route, it would be pretty tough to “redeem” the Eradicator down the road… but then, can a guy called “the Eradicator” ever really be in the side of the angels anyway, lol?

The whole “taking many wives” thing is the one thing that bothers me about all of this really. Manly because it can play into harmful stereotypes (and it also makes Kal-El’s parents sound like they’re cool with him just enslaving women). I don’t believe that was Gunn’s intention but he probably should have seriously considered those implications. I took that more as an extension of the extraterrestrial, science-driven culture crafted in the Byrne era of Superman (btw, I just learned about some offensive comments Byrne made about immigrants today and I lost a lot of respect I once had for him), with maybe some of the Smallville and Mr. Oz influence. And Gunn probably also wanted to throw in his typical themes of found/chosen family as well.

Anyway, all I can say is that I can’t fault anyone for having issues with these changes (or adjustments) to the origin. They may work for some, but not for others, and it’s a shame that they offended some fans. I’m not sure on what side I fall on. But I think, unlike some other live action versions of Superman, these changes to his origin didn’t leave me feeling like Superman himself was changed into someone virtually unrecognizable, and that might be the most important thing. While it may be debatable where his humanity exactly comes from (I would say that the answer is that it’s all of his collective experience), what matters most to me in terms of a Superman story is that he feels like Superman, even if other core characters are changed to suit the new narrative. But obviously that’s just my opinion on this.

 

[Karelia]

Watched it for the third time today. I love it more after each viewing. The pacing works better after every watch as well.

I'm definitely convinced that Gunn is going to revisit the Jor-El message and we are going to find out Brainanc tampered with it. The fact Brainanc was considered for main villain of this film solidifies it for me.

That Pa Kent scene with Clark hits harder every time. Beautifully acted. Originally Pruitt had all of my focus, but Corenswet put in some excellent subtle reactions in this scene when Pa was imparting his wisdom.

I think I hated Kara saying "*****" even more after another viewing. Call me old fashioned, but I hate this kind of talk. I hope she isn't this foul mouthed in her solo film.

I understand not liking Kara cursing, unfortunately, from what I remember... she cusses a good bit in the Woman of Tomorrow comic. So I won't be surprised if she's a bit more colorful in her solo movie as well.

 

[Deck Rickard]

Question for you all on adaptations like this and the upcoming Supergirl film…

The change with the Els has caused some controversy in this film obviously ( I don’t think it makes the film as a whole divisive among audiences but that one aspect has clearly started some conversation). Regardless of whether you like the change or not, it raises a question for me about how much liberty that new directors and writers should take, when they take on these properties. Given then criticisms that the MCU has received over the post-Endgame years (and even before that) there has been a push towards superhero content that is more unique to the spirit of the filmmaker. And, perhaps in Supergirl’s case, a direct adaptation of a newer and specific story that might be unfamiliar to more casual fans. I think that’s a really cool thing and I’m excited to see it, especially as someone who doesn’t know that story. Yet.

With Superman, for whatever reason, it seems like this El/Kent parental dilemma was what helped Gunn find his way into writing the project. As I’ve said already, I’m not sure how I totally feel about it but I’m at least glad that Gunn trusted himself to see his vision through and didn’t feel a need to scrap it or cop out by the end because he was afraid it might rub fans the wrong way. Again, I’m not sure it was the RIGHT decision yet but I think we need to give directors and writers some leeway with these projects or else they run the risk of remaking the same films.

The whole concept of the “director’s vision” when it comes to this stuff is tricky because we, as fans, have certain expectations, even when it comes to a genre that is constantly rebooting itself in comics, movies and TV shows. I didn’t even know that a recent version of Jor-El in the comics is very close to his ruthless portrayal in this film. My only exposure to that type of Jor before was in Smallville. Similarly, as someone who grew up reading mostly Superman in the post-Crisis era (and my favorite Supes origin story is Birthright) I wasn’t sure if a movie heavily influenced by the Silver Age-esque All Star Superman would be my cup of tea either. It’s a good story where Superman really shines as a character but I don’t love the comic as a whole really or its overall tone. But I can certainly see why people do. So I’m fine with Gunn borrowing heavily from that even if there are other influences I would have rather seen him pull from (and he clearly did, but that was a big one).

Anyway, just some food for thought. I’m curious how much we want to see filmmakers put their own spins on these projects. I do think it can go too far at times. Some directors have taken these characters in directions I never wanted to see (and not just Superman; look at what the hell those Nic Cage movies did to Ghost Rider). But I think when it comes to characters like Superman whose origins and personal ties to other characters are so well known, changes to those things can really shake people so I guess filmmakers have to consider that and see if it’s a good or bad idea to subvert expectations? Honestly I don’t know the right answer. I’m sure Gunn has an amazing life right now but I know I couldn’t handle that kind of pressure.

 

[TheGDBatman]

Well after 5 viewings I've pinpointed my "bathroom break" moment: the anti-proton river. The only action scene I don't care for in the movie. Ugly to look at and drags on too long imo. The rest of the pocket universe stuff before and after it is gold though.

I feel like the outlier as someone who loved the scene lol. So much science fiction goodness.

 

[Deck Rickard]

I feel like the outlier as someone who loved the scene lol. So much science fiction goodness.

Yeah one of my favorite things about Gunn as a filmmaker is his weird visual sensibilities. Stuff like Knowhere in Guardians, Ego in GOTG 2 and Starro in The Suicide Squad are all really eye popping and that scene fits right in with all of that stuff for me. I can see how it might not be for everyone but at least it wasn’t a skybeam surrounded by rubble again lol.

Wait… just making sure… there weren’t any skybeams in this movie were there?

 

[Lily Adler]

 

[dhandler01]

I have been on record, I would rather have the directors be able to tell their stories their way whether it works or it doesn't. One of the main reasons I really disliked Marvel films was how much they were the same and episodic in nature. I would rather let the creatives cook...not without guidance mind you but yeah let them tell their vision.

One of the best aspects of comics is that different parts of the universe will look and feel different. Yes Batman is in the Justice League but if you read Legends of the Dark Knight it was a different feel and, if there wasn't a crossover going on, Batman would feel different than Detective which would all feel different than Superman/Batman and that would feel different than Action Comics...etc. For all of the faults of the Snyderverse, the one thing that worked was not everyone having to tell a story in a dark and edgelord style. Patty being able to tell her story in WW was part of why it was great. (and also why WW84 was not great) James Wan being allowed to make Aquaman a 80s/90s style action film was why that film made a billion dollars. If Ryan Coogler has an idea for a character and he can make it work enough that it can somehow fit...you let him write his script and then you greenlight it when it is ready. If it seems like a weird fit remember how different even neighborhoods in the same town can feel let alone countries or planets with metahumans on them

As for Woman of Tomorrow obviously they are not going to do a shot for shot adaptation but if they keep the origin part (which I have to assume they are) then Supergirl's attitude and "Party" nature is going to make a heckuva lot of sense. It was really painful to read and really makes it seem like it would almost be justified if Supergirl was a much darker version of herself. (which she isn't making her seem even more awesome than her cousin) Really great storytelling and if shot right will really spark emotion. I always loved Supergirl (except the Matrix Version from when Lex had long hair and an Australian Accent ) but WOT made me love her even more.

As for the Els and the "harem" I think some of you are way overthinking it. Its not all that different than what religions in the past used to say. (some versions still do though they tend to be fringe) "Be Fruitful and Multiply" is a thing for a reason, and in the past it was much less...discerning. They think we are an undeveloped society, to them having Kal-El rule over us and breed us into strength is pretty much the same as what the colonizers did to "The New World" in an effort to "save it". Many of the conquerors of the past believed they were rescuing the "barbarians" by converting them and educating them (often by ripping them from their homes) and then turning them into versions of the conquerors. That is what the Els are doing only on a global scale because they are so far beyond us in advancements.

And I say this as a very Left/Progressive Person...not every film needs to be coded as a Progressive/Leftist ideal. Societies aren't homogenized even when they are at their best in the real world and they shouldn't be in film either. Nitpicking language choice, or twisting yourself into knots looking for ways that something might be offensive or represent something evil is not the way to change things in society writ large. Even the best people aren't going to be perfect. Not every female character needs to be a feminist icon, because not every woman is a feminist or cares to be treated as such. Every man doesn't need to treat women as queens, because not all men do that and not all women are. Parents dont need to be giving out great advice, because parents aren't perfect. (even the kindest parents can have some rather awful things they support or believe) My GF is one of the most feminist women I have ever met, as Progressive as they come, and she loved the Jimmy and Eve back and forth because it rings true. We all have known (or were) people like Eve who in an effort to find love go well beyond the line (and shack up with people who obviously are abusive) and we know people like Jimmy who instead of communicating it just ghost them. Not everyone is in a healthy part of their life and there is nothing wrong with that on screen.

(sorry for the rant and I hope I did not offend anyone)

 

[dhandler01]

So wait...is it not crashing now?

That group reminds of a bunch of people who used to post on the IMDB boards. They were huge Batman '89 fans and when Batman Begins came out they would start dozens of threads just ranting about it and how it was a failure and how WCB was never going to green light a sequel...etc. Even when they did green light it the sequel they flat out ignored it and still ranted the same way until the first trailer came out. So bizarre...

 

[Lily Adler]

So wait...is it not crashing now?

That group reminds of a bunch of people who used to post on the IMDB boards. They were huge Batman '89 fans and when Batman Begins came out they would start dozens of threads just ranting about it and how it was a failure and how WCB was never going to green light a sequel...etc. Even when they did green light it the sequel they flat out ignored it and still ranted the same way until the first trailer came out. So bizarre...

Buckle up buttercup. They're going to be like this until a sequel or JL.

 

[chintai80]

I have been on record, I would rather have the directors be able to tell their stories their way whether it works or it doesn't. One of the main reasons I really disliked Marvel films was how much they were the same and episodic in nature. I would rather let the creatives cook...not without guidance mind you but yeah let them tell their vision.

One of the best aspects of comics is that different parts of the universe will look and feel different. Yes Batman is in the Justice League but if you read Legends of the Dark Knight it was a different feel and, if there wasn't a crossover going on, Batman would feel different than Detective which would all feel different than Superman/Batman and that would feel different than Action Comics...etc. For all of the faults of the Snyderverse, the one thing that worked was not everyone having to tell a story in a dark and edgelord style. Patty being able to tell her story in WW was part of why it was great. (and also why WW84 was not great) James Wan being allowed to make Aquaman a 80s/90s style action film was why that film made a billion dollars. If Ryan Coogler has an idea for a character and he can make it work enough that it can somehow fit...you let him write his script and then you greenlight it when it is ready. If it seems like a weird fit remember how different even neighborhoods in the same town can feel let alone countries or planets with metahumans on them

As for Woman of Tomorrow obviously they are not going to do a shot for shot adaptation but if they keep the origin part (which I have to assume they are) then Supergirl's attitude and "Party" nature is going to make a heckuva lot of sense. It was really painful to read and really makes it seem like it would almost be justified if Supergirl was a much darker version of herself. (which she isn't making her seem even more awesome than her cousin) Really great storytelling and if shot right will really spark emotion. I always loved Supergirl (except the Matrix Version from when Lex had long hair and an Australian Accent ) but WOT made me love her even more.

As for the Els and the "harem" I think some of you are way overthinking it. Its not all that different than what religions in the past used to say. (some versions still do though they tend to be fringe) "Be Fruitful and Multiply" is a thing for a reason, and in the past it was much less...discerning. They think we are an undeveloped society, to them having Kal-El rule over us and breed us into strength is pretty much the same as what the colonizers did to "The New World" in an effort to "save it". Many of the conquerors of the past believed they were rescuing the "barbarians" by converting them and educating them (often by ripping them from their homes) and then turning them into versions of the conquerors. That is what the Els are doing only on a global scale because they are so far beyond us in advancements.

And I say this as a very Left/Progressive Person...not every film needs to be coded as a Progressive/Leftist ideal. Societies aren't homogenized even when they are at their best in the real world and they shouldn't be in film either. Nitpicking language choice, or twisting yourself into knots looking for ways that something might be offensive or represent something evil is not the way to change things in society writ large. Even the best people aren't going to be perfect. Not every female character needs to be a feminist icon, because not every woman is a feminist or cares to be treated as such. Every man doesn't need to treat women as queens, because not all men do that and not all women are. Parents dont need to be giving out great advice, because parents aren't perfect. (even the kindest parents can have some rather awful things they support or believe) My GF is one of the most feminist women I have ever met, as Progressive as they come, and she loved the Jimmy and Eve back and forth because it rings true. We all have known (or were) people like Eve who in an effort to find love go well beyond the line (and shack up with people who obviously are abusive) and we know people like Jimmy who instead of communicating it just ghost them. Not everyone is in a healthy part of their life and there is nothing wrong with that on screen.

(sorry for the rant and I hope I did not offend anyone)

i too AM jimmy olsen (minus the line of women after me )

agree with all your points!

yea like it sort of made me feel some way that the El's aren't portrayed as benevolent like they traditionally are in the comics - even snyder still adhered to this portrayal.

but it makes logical sense - they see us a lesser species and assimilating (conquering) us would be the greater good in their minds.
that's what us humans have done historically, and still do, just as you pointed out.

and this plot point with the El's pushed the story forward and had a poignant payoff at the end.

and btw, my showing ended up being mostly filled up...and the vibe i got from the audience was of pure joy.
this was a big crowd pleaser.