Superman: The Movie Superman the Movie = STILL the greatest superhero movie

[moonmooer]

And I don't see how "this is dated so it cant be the greatest" is a valid argument.

Mainly, because its not a valid argument.

I didn't grow up with the movie, and only watched it around three years ago, after I had already gone through the entire DCAU and read through several Superman comics, so my immediate response to it was that it's very dated, even when compared alongside some of the older cape films, such as Spider-Man 1 and 2. The difference in characterization load between Peter in the Raimi films and Clark in Superman the Movie is huge. He has no flaws and can barely be said to have a personality. All we get from him are a few minutes in Smallville, and suddenly its as if Clark stops existing as a character and becomes a plot device as Superman. Superman is my favorite superhero, but I can see why many who have only seen Superman the Movie would find him dull and unimpressive.

Lex was also extremely non-threatening and felt poorly matched against the unbeatable, god-like Superman. They basically took Silver Age Superman, at his most overpowered, somehow managed to beef him up even more, and then paired him against a film-only version Lex, more incompetent and less intelligent than any of his other incarnations. None of this is helped by the fact that Superman can turn back time and gets powers as the plot demands. There was no tension. Hackman's Lex compares very poorly when matched against the likes of Molina's Doc Ock, McKellen's or Fastbender's Magneto, Shannon's Zod, and even Dafoe's Green Goblin. This is a shame, since comic Lex is one of the greatest antagonists out there.

MOS had better characterization, just going with Zod and Clark, alone. I still highly respect Superman the Movie, though, since if it didn't exist, all of those films that copied and improved upon its formula, through hindsight, over the course of several decades, would never have been created (not really fair to compare it to them for that reason). Donner basically invented the superhero movie genre with that film.

 

[The Batman]

^ I disagree with points you made in that post, but I do respect your opinion and wish that more STM criticism were that well thought out.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

I love Superman the Movie.

33% is nostalgia

33% is Christopher Reeve

and the final 33% is great, timeless storytelling.

It's still my favorite SH movie.

 

[Fudgie]

What's the final 1% then?

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

Tessmacher

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Tessmacher

Otis.

It's all Otis.

 

[DCW]

Having rewatched this recently, the Donner Superman's and Burton Batman's are still at the head of all CBMs for me.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

Yes, Superman the Movie is still the best superhero movie. It's beautiful...it's a masterpiece!

I know it's popular to crap all over it now that we have Man of Steel...some people call it cheesy, campy, overrated and outdated. They whine about the special effects, complain about the lack of fight scenes (I'll take scenes of Superman flying around and saving people or cats from danger over repetitive fight scenes any day), that Hackman's Luthor is a harmless clown, or say that Reeve's Superman is boring because he's too nice and perfect etc. It's almost as if they haven't watched the movie...

The same people often say stuff like "Reeve's Superman wouldn't work today, the 70's or 80's were different, a more innocent time". That's a lie, things weren't perfect back then either. The difference is that filmmakers were more imaginative...even though the real world was (and is) messed up, they knew that movies could be used as a way to escape reality...to show us a world that's a bit better, where a man in tights and cape can show up and save us all. If you want depressive tales of death and destruction, just read the newspaper.

I hope we'll get a Superman movie like it again some day...but I doubt it.

 

[jonathancrane]

I doubt we will ever have another film like it. The new paradigm is that films have to be grim, replete with scenes of death and destruction, heroes sacrificing their moral code, and without humor, as we all know Marvel invented humor and enforces their copyright on it aggressively...cannot have humor, as we all know DC's depictions of superheroes are "realistic," and no one in the real world cracks a joke.

Besides, if the studio did return to the S:TM paradigm, there would be the biggest crapstorm the internet has ever seen. I am not saying the film is without flaw, but, we will never see a film like it again.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

I doubt we will ever have another film like it. The new paradigm is that films have to be grim, replete with scenes of death and destruction, heroes sacrificing their moral code, and without humor, as we all know Marvel invented humor and enforces their copyright on it aggressively...cannot have humor, as we all know DC's depictions of superheroes are "realistic," and no one in the real world cracks a joke.

Besides, if the studio did return to the S:TM paradigm, there would be the biggest crapstorm the internet has ever seen. I am not saying the film is without flaw, but, we will never see a film like it again.

I don't understand why some people want superhero movies to be more serious than regular action movies. Terminator 2 had many funny scenes, but that didn't make the movie campy.

Something is wrong when you feel depressed after seeing a Superman moviet:

 

[jonathancrane]

I don't understand why some people want superhero movies to be more serious than regular action movies. Terminator 2 had many funny scenes, but that didn't make the movie campy.

Something is wrong when you feel depressed after seeing a Superman moviet:

Terminator 2 is a fine example. It was a serious film: dealing with the apocalypse and the fight to prevent humanity from being exterminated. But, it had some carefully applied layers of humor to prevent it from being a completely bleak viewing experience.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

Now I want to see Superman the Movie AND Terminator 2 again...

 

[jonathancrane]

I have not watched both in years. I feel it's time to dig them out, again.

 

[Goshdarn Batman]

ZS: …I think with Superman we have this opportunity to place this icon within the sort of real world we live in. And I think that, honestly, the thing I was surprised about in response to Superman was how everyone clings to the Christopher Reeve version of Superman, you know? How tightly they cling to those ideas, not really the comic book version but more the movie version… If you really analyze the comic book version of Superman, he’s killed, he’s done all the things– I guess the rules that people associate with Superman in the movie world are not the rules that really apply to him in the comic book world, because those rules are different. He’s done all the things and more that we’ve shown him doing, right? It’s just funny to see people really taking it personally… because I made him real, you know, I made him feel, or made consequences [in] the world. I felt like, it was the same thing in Watchmen. We really wanted to show it wasn’t just like they thought, like the PG-13 version where everyone just gets up and they’re fine. I really wanted to show the violence is real, people get killed or get hurt, and it’s not fun or funny. And I guess for me, it was like I wanted a hero in Superman that was a real hero and sort of reflected the world we live in now…

http://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/2014/04/17/exclusive-interview-with-zack-snyder-director-of-batman-vs-superman/

I don't do this very often, but:

Maybe he should make Watchmen 2 instead, with Alan Moore as Beardiac or something.

 

[Space Ghost]

I doubt we will ever have another film like it. The new paradigm is that films have to be grim, replete with scenes of death and destruction, heroes sacrificing their moral code, and without humor, as we all know Marvel invented humor and enforces their copyright on it aggressively...cannot have humor, as we all know DC's depictions of superheroes are "realistic," and no one in the real world cracks a joke.

Besides, if the studio did return to the S:TM paradigm, there would be the biggest crapstorm the internet has ever seen. I am not saying the film is without flaw, but, we will never see a film like it again.

People in real world crack jokes. And in DC movies people also crack jokes. I just don´t think jokes should be cracked too often in tragic situations, like how it happens in the MCU. That takes the tension out of it. Makes everything look like a cartoonish comedy.

 

[Blitzkrieg Bop]

About Snyder's comments, DC is not about realism. God-****ing-damn it.

 

[The Batman]

I don't necessarily want to see a film like STM again...I just want a modern Superman movie that can actually match or surpass it. That's what the Superman film franchise needs more than anything else.

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

You're not going to beat Donner at his own game.

That's probably why Snyder and co took a darker, more sci-fi approach.

 

[Human Torch]

I don't understand why some people want superhero movies to be more serious than regular action movies. Terminator 2 had many funny scenes, but that didn't make the movie campy.

Something is wrong when you feel depressed after seeing a Superman moviet:

Exactly.I never thought such a thing possible.

 

[Space Ghost]

You're not going to beat Donner at his own game.

That's probably why Snyder and co took a darker, more sci-fi approach.

I´m glad he did. I already had enough campiness as a kid.

 

[Human Torch]

'Cause Supe has always been about teh Grim 'n Gritty!

 

[MessiahDecoy123]

Funny enough, I don't find STM overly campy.

What stands out is the film's heart.

For me it's the most heart-warming superhero movie and that fits Superman perfectly.

 

[Space Ghost]

'Cause Supe has always been about teh Grim 'n Gritty!

It´s about whatever the creative team wants it to be. If you want a darker Superman, you can find it. Those comics exist. If you want campiness, you can also find it.

 

[Human Torch]

I have to laugh at people who try to say S:TM was campy.That was why the film was so revolutionary.Because Donner treated the subject with a respect that was mostly lacking before.All too often people mistake comedy for "camp".You want camp in action,watch 60's Batman.It's a far cry from the comedy in S:TM.

 

[Space Ghost]

Funny enough, I don't find STM overly campy.

What stands out is the film's heart.

For me it's the most heart-warming superhero movie and that fits Superman perfectly.

What´s heart-warming about the film? Him wanting to bang Lois and vice versa, and half of the movie being about that, or everything feeling like a live action version of a cartoon for 8 year old kids?