Superman Returns Superman's Posey Talks Kitty

[SuperDaniel]

I would have actually liked to see Superman return to find out that Lex is running for President and is now loved by all. That would blow his mind.

This would be much better than what we`ve got. Luthor in this movie will just be evil make him very 1 dimensional and bland. And in my opinion, stupid. He is there to just conquer the world and Superman is the guy who is going to save people and stop him.

 

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

^^^

We don't know what we have got.

 

[MatchesMalone]

Matches, i don`t like when Superman is just a bland 1 dimensional character who just fights bad guys and saves people. I like when Superman represents the idea of good inside all of us. The way it was shown in Superman for all seasons. Why be a Superman if you can`t save everybody? Why? Because he wants to make the world a better place. Because he loves humans. Earth is his new home and he doesn`t want the same thing that happened to Krypton. Thats what makes him larger than life. He is not just good. He represents the idea of good. This isn`t Marvel. I don`t like when Superman goes to have therapeutic sessions, like it was shown in some histories of post-crisis or is unsure of himself.

I believe that is exactly where you and Bryan Singer agree completely, and what you will see. It will be emotionally resonant because the world is unsure if they want him back, but he still needs to do what he does.

The same thing goes for Luthor. I don`t like when he is just evil personified. He is just a bad guy who robbs banks and cause trouble so in the end of the movie, Luthor is back in jail again. For a 2 hour movie, i want Luthor to represent the idea of evil, not just be evil. Superman for all seasons is a great comic because its outside continuity and it feels like watching a movie. Its a simple and magnificent story.

I agree about SFAS. It is a great story.

What I think you are talking about is very black and white, very clear-cut. Good versus evil. The story of Lex and Superman should be less clear. Lex represents the meek; the emotional, mental challenge to Superman. Therefore, he needs to feel intimate. To feel like a real human being. Humor is a great tool for this, employed by nearly everybody who has touched Lex.

You have a fear that Lex will be a cardboard cut-out, with no dimension.

I ask you this. Was Magneto a cardboard cut-out? Has Kevin Spacey EVER played a cardboard cut-out?

 

[skruloos]

And how exactely the 90`s Luthor isn`t larger than life? He is much more a complex character than the "i am evil" of pre-crisis. In pre-crisis, things were just 1 dimensional. Thats why it changed. For the better.

For the better? If that was the case, they would keep it the way it was. But no. The comics are reverting BACK to Pre-Crisis. Why? Because the Post-Crisis Lex, the tycoon with the dark side who eventually became president was boring.

But the fact writers can`t write good stories its not the characters fault. How about Superman for all seasons? That single story alone is better then every story of pre-crisis excluding "whatever happened to the man of tomorrow".

It's funny that you mention that. I see Superman For All Seasons as the first step in trying to make Post-Crisis Superman much more like Pre-Crisis. Luthor, while he's still the business man, obviously is the xenophobe and a bit of his insane inventor shows through judging by his evil plot in the film. I mean, a variation of the Lex suit shows up. That mini-series is one of the few before Birthright that felt like a Pre-Crisis story.

 

[SuperDaniel]

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[MatchesMalone]

This would be much better than what we`ve got. Luthor in this movie will just be evil make him very 1 dimensional and bland. And in my opinion, stupid. He is there to just conquer the world and Superman is the guy who is going to save people and stop him.

SpiderDaniel. Seriously. WHAT ELSE TO THE STORY IS THERE? When has it ever been different than that???

 

[SuperDaniel]

For the better? If that was the case, they would keep it the way it was. But no. The comics are reverting BACK to Pre-Crisis. Why? Because the Post-Crisis Lex, the tycoon with the dark side who eventually became president was boring.

If the writers cant write good stories, then its their fault.

It's funny that you mention that. I see Superman For All Seasons as the first step in trying to make Post-Crisis Superman much more like Pre-Crisis. Luthor, while he's still the business man, obviously is the xenophobe and a bit of his insane inventor shows through judging by his evil plot in the film. I mean, a variation of the Lex suit shows up. That mini-series is one of the few before Birthright that felt like a Pre-Crisis story.

But his evil plot wasnt conquering the world, like it is in Pre-crisis and in the movies. His plot is to make Superman give up. Is to make Superman don`t have hope. Thats not pre-crisis at all.

And what Luthor we have in this movie? The one who goes to the fortress, robbs the crystal, wants to make new krypton and be rich, sends his gang to cause trouble around metropolis(train, anyone) to distract Superman so he can create his new home without Superman knowing. A luthor Who is just evil personified and 1 dimensional.

 

[skruloos]

I do. Luthor goes to the fortress, robbs the crystal, wants to make new krypton and be rich, sends his gang to cause trouble around metropolis(train, anyone) to distract Superman so he can create his new home without Superman knowing. A luthor Who is just evil personified and 1 dimensional.

By that definition, what would be the difference with the guy in For all Seasons? Didn't you say you wanted a Lex who is greedy? Didn't you just say that Lex in SR wants to make New Krypton to get rich? How is Luthor in the Post-Crisis comics not evil personified? And Lex Luthor, in any incarnation, has always been about ultimate power and taking over the world. But he's also been about wantingt to destroy Superman, whether it was in Pre or Post-Crisis. How would SR be any different? Seems that the only real difference here is the front. The Luthor of StM did not use a front. The one in Post-Crisis did. It didn't make him any more complex. It just gave him something to hide behind. As the current events show in the comics, he was always as insane as he was in Pre-Crisis and his facade just couldn't hold up any longer.

 

[SuperDaniel]

In post-crisis, people dont know he is evil. People love Lex Luthor. Thats very diferent than the usual bad guy....
And even Luthor is not just evil. He hires thousands of people and helps thosands of citzens in Metropolis. If we take a look at this aspect, he is not evil. But why does he do that? To help people? No. He does it to conquer all of them. He does it to control metropolis. Thats very different from pre-crisis.

 

[ToddIsDead]

You obviously haven't been reading comics lately. The public absolutely despises Luthor.

 

[skruloos]

If the writers cant write good stories, then its their fault.

If the character stops working and they've exhausted what can be told with such a bland character, then it's the character's fault. They tried the respectable business front. They tried it for almost two decades. They found it didn't work.

But his evil plot wasnt conquering the world, like it is in Pre-crisis and in the movies. His plot is to make Superman give up. Is to make Superman don`t have hope. Thats not pre-crisis at all.

Actually, that's a lot like the Luthor in Superboy. And Luthor in the comics WAS about conquering the world. Why do you think he ran for President?

And what Luthor we have in this movie? The one who goes to the fortress, robbs the crystal, wants to make new krypton and be rich, sends his gang to cause trouble around metropolis(train, anyone) to distract Superman so he can create his new home without Superman knowing. A luthor Who is just evil personified and 1 dimensional.

No. We have a Luthor, who by the quotes we have read the character says in the film by set reports and interviews, is jealous of Superman. He is jealous of Superman's power. Also, he resents how much humans have come to depend on an alien. How is that one dimensional?

 

[SuperDaniel]

You obviously haven't been reading comics lately. The public absolutely despises Luthor.

Back to pre-crisis.Back to the stupid, 1 dimensional type.

 

[MatchesMalone]

If the writers cant write good stories, then its their fault.

That's pretty prejudicial. How much pre-crisis have you actually read? Admittedly, most of it in the 50s and 60s was crap (because of the Wertham debacle, most comics period were crap back then). But the ideas put forth were quite excellent. With better writing, they would make some incredible tales. Wait, that's what's happening! Excellent!

But his evil plot wasnt conquering the world, like it is in Pre-crisis and in the movies. His plot is to make Superman give up. Is to make Superman don`t have hope. Thats not pre-crisis at all.

To what end is he trying to get rid of Superman? Simply as an obstacle in his plans to take over Metropolis. That's all. Simply because he wanted the public attention back on him. Pretty typical to me. The same old story with a different face. Why can't you see this? Lex has always wanted to get rid of Superman because he is scared of him and annoyed at his intrusion. Pre-crisis is no different.

And what Luthor we have in this movie? The one who goes to the fortress, robbs the crystal, wants to make new krypton and be rich, sends his gang to cause trouble around metropolis(train, anyone) to distract Superman so he can create his new home without Superman knowing. A luthor Who is just evil personified and 1 dimensional.

How do we know Luthor isn't the one who helps engineer the public's increasing ambivalence toward Superman in his absense? How do you know he will be one-dimensional. Hitler was all about taking over the world only, and he was far from one-dimensional. Dimension comes from characterization, not from the evil plans. You have no idea how personal this will be. None of us do.

 

[SuperDaniel]

If the character stops working and they've exhausted what can be told with such a bland character, then it's the character's fault. They tried the respectable business front. They tried it for almost two decades. They found it didn't work.


Actually, that's a lot like the Luthor in Superboy. And Luthor in the comics WAS about conquering the world. Why do you think he ran for President?


No. We have a Luthor, who by the quotes we have read the character says in the film by set reports and interviews, is jealous of Superman. He is jealous of Superman's power. Also, he resents how much humans have come to depend on an alien. How is that one dimensional?

Luthor is just seen as evil. 1 Dimensional.

 

[skruloos]

In post-crisis, people dont know he is evil. People love Lex Luthor. Thats very diferent than the usual bad guy....

A) Everyone knows Lex is evil now. The "puppet master" Lex was boring and too much like the Kingpin. They reverted him back to how he was.

B)The only difference to you is not the characterization then. It's how the public percieves him. That doesn't make the character more complex. It's called having a front, something that a lot of villains have. It's something people in the real world do. It's nothing new and not all that unusual.

 

[SuperDaniel]

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[SuperDaniel]

A) Everyone knows Lex is evil now. The "puppet master" Lex was boring and too much like the Kingpin. They reverted him back to how he was.

B)The only difference to you is not the characterization then. It's how the public percieves him. That doesn't make the character more complex. It's called having a front, something that a lot of villains have. It's something people in the real world do. It's nothing new and not all that unusual.

And thats make him much a much more interesting villain to Superman, who is also loved by all.

 

[MatchesMalone]

Back to pre-crisis.Back to the stupid, 1 dimensional type.

Dead-set in your ways. Have you even tried reading a new issue? Lex in the One Year Later first issue is quite good. Very, very excellent.

 

[skruloos]

Luthor is just seen as evil. 1 Dimensional.

And yet you don't really explain how and why it's all that different from what you understand Post-Crisis to be.

Seems to me that all the actions that Spacey's Luthor takes is something that you Post-Crisis Luthor would do, right down to the Kryptonite shiv in Superman's back. The only difference, in your mind, is that Luthor won't have a public front. But it seems to me that he DOES have a public front. It's why he can have a mansion, a yacht, and a rich girlfriend. Wouldn't that be an atttempt at respectabilty?

 

[skruloos]

And thats make him much a much more interesting villain to Superman, who is also loved by all.

Interesting? No. Not really. It makes him a Kingpin rip-off.

 

[skruloos]

Back to pre-crisis.Back to the stupid, 1 dimensional type.

What do you care? You don't read comics anyway, right? He's back to how he was. How he should be and the Lex you know is just a footnote in the character's history.

 

[SuperDaniel]

And yet you don't really explain how and why it's all that different from what you understand Post-Crisis to be.

Seems to me that all the actions that Spacey's Luthor takes is something that you Post-Crisis Luthor would do, right down to the Kryptonite shiv in Superman's back. The only difference, in your mind, is that Luthor won't have a public front. But it seems to me that he DOES have a public front. It's why he can have a mansion, a yacht, and a rich girlfriend. Wouldn't that be an atttempt at respectabilty?

Having a company who employs thousands of people in Metropolis is way different than have a mansion, yatch and pretty girlfriends...

 

[MatchesMalone]

And yet you don't really explain how and why it's all that different from what you understand Post-Crisis to be.

Seems to me that all the actions that Spacey's Luthor takes is something that you Post-Crisis Luthor would do, right down to the Kryptonite shiv in Superman's back. The only difference, in your mind, is that Luthor won't have a public front. But it seems to me that he DOES have a public front. It's why he can have a mansion, a yacht, and a rich girlfriend. Wouldn't that be an atttempt at respectabilty?

Not to mention the quotes from Perry White: "Three things sell newspapers; Sex, Violence, and Superman." "What about Lex Luthor?" "Luthor? He's yesterday's news."

Lex is coming back in a big way, to show the world that they should not have forgotten him.

 

[skruloos]

Having a company who employs thousands of people in Metropolis is way different than have a mansion, yatch and pretty girlfriends...

Not really. They are both different versions of having a respectable lifestyle and it's a far cry from the Luthor who lived underground in StM. They're both facades to hide what they really are.

 

[Showtime]

And yet you don't really explain how and why it's all that different from what you understand Post-Crisis to be.

Seems to me that all the actions that Spacey's Luthor takes is something that you Post-Crisis Luthor would do, right down to the Kryptonite shiv in Superman's back. The only difference, in your mind, is that Luthor won't have a public front. But it seems to me that he DOES have a public front. It's why he can have a mansion, a yacht, and a rich girlfriend. Wouldn't that be an atttempt at respectabilty?

Very good point.