Superman Returns Superman's Posey Talks Kitty

[Oldguy]

Matches, I don't know where your comparrison of BB and B89 went as far as similarities in plot go, but you are totally on the money there.

3rd time thru, I realized, it's the same menace as B89. Even tho it was in that aspect, identical to B89, the characterization, pacing and style of the two movies are so different that it took me 3 times to see the similarities.

As far as Rachel goes, bear in mind 2 things. 1) she got in trouble with Scarecrow, not because she was Batman's love interest, but because of her own profession as ADA. 2) the female romantic lead was an idea imposed upon Nolan and Goyer by WB. At least they had the stones to downplay the romance as much as possible (she dumps him at teh end of the movie, and he never revealed his ID to her.)

Even here, the ugly head of hollywood machine shows up. Nolan did a good job to diffuse it. I think Singer is too keen on hommaging Donner that he's going to be oblivious to the formula.

 

[MatchesMalone]

Matches, I don't know where your comparrison of BB and B89 went as far as similarities in plot go, but you are totally on the money there.

3rd time thru, I realized, it's the same menace as B89. Even tho it was in that aspect, identical to B89, the characterization, pacing and style of the two movies are so different that it took me 3 times to see the similarities.

As far as Rachel goes, bear in mind 2 things. 1) she got in trouble with Scarecrow, not because she was Batman's love interest, but because of her own profession as ADA. 2) the female romantic lead was an idea imposed upon Nolan and Goyer by WB. At least they had the stones to downplay the romance as much as possible (she dumps him at teh end of the movie, and he never revealed his ID to her.)

Batman: "It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me."

Rachel: "Bruce?"

He reveals his identity to her on that damn roof with the kid.

Even here, the ugly head of hollywood machine shows up. Nolan did a good job to diffuse it. I think Singer is too keen on hommaging Donner that he's going to be oblivious to the formula.

Thanks. I love Batman Begins. I love it not for the story it tells, but for how that story is told. That's what's most important to me.

Regarding "formula": the formula works! Even the best comics follow the formula. Year One. DKR. Kingdom Come. They all follow the formula. Again, Superman, in all his incarnations, is just Heracles or Moses with a different skin. The magic is in how the story is told.

 

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

Matches, I don't know where your comparrison of BB and B89 went as far as similarities in plot go, but you are totally on the money there.

3rd time thru, I realized, it's the same menace as B89. Even tho it was in that aspect, identical to B89, the characterization, pacing and style of the two movies are so different that it took me 3 times to see the similarities.

As far as Rachel goes, bear in mind 2 things. 1) she got in trouble with Scarecrow, not because she was Batman's love interest, but because of her own profession as ADA. 2) the female romantic lead was an idea imposed upon Nolan and Goyer by WB. At least they had the stones to downplay the romance as much as possible (she dumps him at teh end of the movie, and he never revealed his ID to her.)
Even here, the ugly head of hollywood machine shows up. Nolan did a good job to diffuse it. I think Singer is too keen on hommaging Donner that he's going to be oblivious to the formula.

I thought he did.. "Its not who i am undernieth..but what i doooo that defines me."

 

[Oldguy]

That's because it's primal, and, let's face it, it sells. It sells well. Even Batman Begins succumbed to it.

It's not primal, it's played out. It does sell well, to children. Are you a child? Ya BB was forced into it, I posted about this topic.

Isn't that the one where Superman and Lois team up to fight crime?

Wow, you don't actually read the words do you? Lois gets superpowers for the day, and one of the first things she wants to do is go fight crime. Go figure eh?

Seriously, I like the things Morrison is doing. Goofy Clark, the big reveal. I liked the way Lois reacted to Clark's secret. I do hope, since they've introduced the cancer, they should go all the way. This series should end with Supes kicking it.

Indeed. But there needs to be a twist.

You love the criminal Luthor in All Star but don't want that for SR?

Says who? I don't want Teschmacher, Otis or the Crime gang. I liked the Kingpin Luthor simply because it was an advasary Superman couldn't punch out. I never prefered him to convict Luthor, but it was a nice change of pace back in 85 after 40+ years of convict Luthor.

I'd like to see a combination of both, brilliant wealthy convict Luthor, secretly contracted by the U.S. gov't. to develop weapons.

Nah, I like Morrison, but he's no Busiek or Waid. He's got a firm grip on Batman though.

You know why Waid has never done anything remotely as good as Kingdom Come? He stole the idea from Moore. Waid is a hack. I got 16 issues of Legion of Superheroes and a 12 issue miniseries called Birthright to prove it, lol.

Greatest Superman story ever told, for me, remains Secret Identity.

Not me, I like my Superman from earth-prime to be bat**** crazy, thank you very much.

I keed, I keed.

 

[Oldguy]

I thought he did.. "Its not who i am undernieth..but what i doooo that defines me."

Ya he did, but he didn't you know? He didn't "confirm" it, I mean that he didn't specifically unmask in front of her.

WB put the screws to Nolan on this aspect of the formula, and I appreciated the fact that he did his best to not belittle the efforts a man would go thru to become a masked vigilante, then to just throw it away at the first sign of a piece of tail.

 

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

Ya he did, but he didn't you know? He didn't "confirm" it, I mean that he didn't specifically unmask in front of her.

WB put the screws to Nolan on this aspect of the formula, and I appreciated the fact that he did his best to not belittle the efforts a man would go thru to become a masked vigilante, then to just throw it away at the first sign of a piece of tail.

I see what you mean...i thought it was handled very well. i just hope it doesn't become a regular event in future sequels.

I want rachel to die in the next movie..

 

[MatchesMalone]

It's not primal, it's played out. It does sell well, to children. Are you a child? Ya BB was forced into it, I posted about this topic.

Opinions are played out too. It sells well to everybody. Shakespeare was all formula as well. It's been this way since Beowulf.

I have some Fellini movies if you're interested. 99 cents.

Wow, you don't actually read the words do you? Lois gets superpowers for the day, and one of the first things she wants to do is go fight crime. Go figure eh?

Haven't bought it yet. Just went from the preview pic. But that story's formula. Played out.

Indeed. But there needs to be a twist.

As long as it's emotionally honest, it'll be good. See, I don't hate angst. I hate "Angst". One is honest, one is manipulative and superficial.

Says who? I don't want Teschmacher, Otis or the Crime gang. I liked the Kingpin Luthor simply because it was an advasary Superman couldn't punch out. I never prefered him to convict Luthor, but it was a nice change of pace back in 85 after 40+ years of convict Luthor.

Not for me. I read it and just kept thinking Kingpin.

I'd like to see a combination of both, brilliant wealthy convict Luthor, secretly contracted by the U.S. gov't. to develop weapons.

Why not have him fight Al Qaeda instead?

You know why Waid has never done anything remotely as good as Kingdom Come? He stole the idea from Moore. Waid is a hack. I got 16 issues of Legion of Superheroes and a 12 issue miniseries called Birthright to prove it, lol.

I don't doubt that. Scratch Waid, insert Moore and Dini. And Maggin. Definitely Maggin.

Not me, I like my Superman from earth-prime to be bat**** crazy, thank you very much.

I keed, I keed.

This reminds me of an Elseworlds story I read once. Pretty famous, apparently. Kal El crashes on Wayne Manor instead of the Kent farm. It was pretty good.

 

[Oldguy]

I see what you mean...i thought it was handled very well. i just hope it doesn't become a regular event in future sequels.

I want rachel to die in the next movie..

Scientology killed her off, after her Tomkat shenannigans for the premiere, I'm sure she won't asked to return.

 

[MatchesMalone]

Ya he did, but he didn't you know? He didn't "confirm" it, I mean that he didn't specifically unmask in front of her.

He confirmed it at Wayne Manor after the monorail fight. He says he should have told her he was Batman, before she says anything.

WB put the screws to Nolan on this aspect of the formula, and I appreciated the fact that he did his best to not belittle the efforts a man would go thru to become a masked vigilante, then to just throw it away at the first sign of a piece of tail.

He could have written it much better. For all the things I loved, one thing that did end up irking me was that Bruce didn't go through any self-discovery. He was told things about himself by other people. When Rachel talked about Batman being his real face in that final scene, I just thought, "Bruce should be saying this to her."

 

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

He confirmed it at Wayne Manor after the monorail fight. He says he should have told her he was Batman, before she says anything.



He could have written it much better. For all the things I loved, one thing that did end up irking me was that Bruce didn't go through any self-discovery. He was told things about himself by other people. When Rachel talked about Batman being his real face in that final scene, I just thought, "Bruce should be saying this to her."

I thought that exact thing.

 

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

Scientology killed her off, after her Tomkat shenannigans for the premiere, I'm sure she won't asked to return.

i beg to differ..i think they need her back to hand over to dent..she needs to be killed.I think having the joker...or even dents other persona "big bad harv" doing it could have a massive emotional impact for Bruce.

 

[true316]

This reminds me of an Elseworlds story I read once. Pretty famous, apparently. Kal El crashes on Wayne Manor instead of the Kent farm. It was pretty good.

I think that one was called Speeding Bullets. I really liked that one too!

(I also dig your avatar!)

 

[Venom71]

It's not primal, it's played out. It does sell well, to children. Are you a child? Ya BB was forced into it, I posted about this topic.



Wow, you don't actually read the words do you? Lois gets superpowers for the day, and one of the first things she wants to do is go fight crime. Go figure eh?




Indeed. But there needs to be a twist.



Says who? I don't want Teschmacher, Otis or the Crime gang. I liked the Kingpin Luthor simply because it was an advasary Superman couldn't punch out. I never prefered him to convict Luthor, but it was a nice change of pace back in 85 after 40+ years of convict Luthor.

I'd like to see a combination of both, brilliant wealthy convict Luthor, secretly contracted by the U.S. gov't. to develop weapons.



You know why Waid has never done anything remotely as good as Kingdom Come? He stole the idea from Moore. Waid is a hack. I got 16 issues of Legion of Superheroes and a 12 issue miniseries called Birthright to prove it, lol.



Not me, I like my Superman from earth-prime to be bat**** crazy, thank you very much.

I keed, I keed.

I'm guessing we won't be getting another Miss T or Otis...why people just assume Kal is going to be a comedic character is just silly IMO...they are called actors...they play different parts..just because Harold and Kumar goes to White Castle or whatever it was called was a comedy doesn't mean that is the type of character he will be playing in SR....has every other actor who ever acted played the the same type character in every movie or TV show they ever did?......NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

 

[Oldguy]

Opinions are played out too. It sells well to everybody. Shakespeare was all formula as well. It's been this way since Beowulf.

Boo.

Haven't bought it yet. Just went from the preview pic. But that story's formula. Played out.

Boo. You haven't even read it, and yet you can't resist can you. Played out. I don't like my own medicine, oh please make it stop. The Horror!

Why not have him fight Al Qaeda instead?

Then I would have to cheer for the terrorists. Death to America!!!

I don't doubt that. Scratch Waid, insert Moore and Dini. And Maggin. Definitely Maggin.

I wept when he died.

This reminds me of an Elseworlds story I read once. Pretty famous, apparently. Kal El crashes on Wayne Manor instead of the Kent farm. It was pretty good.

That's nothing, I read one where we were friends.

 

[Oldguy]

He confirmed it at Wayne Manor after the monorail fight. He says he should have told her he was Batman, before she says anything.

He could have written it much better. For all the things I loved, one thing that did end up irking me was that Bruce didn't go through any self-discovery. He was told things about himself by other people. When Rachel talked about Batman being his real face in that final scene, I just thought, "Bruce should be saying this to her."

I agree Bruce should be saying that to her as well, but again I can't fault Nolan for this. Rachel's character was imposed upon him by the studio.

As far as when, where and how Bruce revealed his ID to Rachel, Robocop gets where I was coming from, so if you don't i'll just chalk it up to you being obtuse.

 

[MatchesMalone]

Boo.

urns.

Boo. You haven't even read it, and yet you can't resist can you. Played out. I don't like my own medicine, oh please make it stop. The Horror!

Damn, I was expecting some of my own medicine, about how it's not the story told, but how it's told.

Then I would have to cheer for the terrorists. Death to America!!!

Have fun when the world economy collapses! Yay!

I wept when he died.

WHAT? Googling....

Hold your tears, mon cherie. He's still alive and kicking. I think you mean Eisner.

That's nothing, I read one where we were friends.

Chilling. That's like some kind of...injustice gang!

 

[Oldguy]

i beg to differ..i think they need her back to hand over to dent..she needs to be killed.I think having the joker...or even dents other persona "big bad harv" doing it could have a massive emotional impact for Bruce.

LoL, I think you just want her dead.

Me too, and the outline you gave would set up a movie nicely. What ever happened to Julie Madison? Did she just fade away?

 

[MatchesMalone]

I agree Bruce should be saying that to her as well, but again I can't fault Nolan for this. Rachel's character was imposed upon him by the studio.

As far as when, where and how Bruce revealed his ID to Rachel, Robocop gets where I was coming from, so if you don't i'll just chalk it up to you being obtuse.

I understand. It's, again, similar to '89. She figures it out, he doesn't "say" it, but confirms it. It's a very similar character arc, with a different ending.

 

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

LoL, I think you just want her dead.

Me too, and the outline you gave would set up a movie nicely. What ever happened to Julie Madison? Did she just fade away?

Well yes i want her dead...that sounds horrible doesn't it?

 

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

I understand. It's, again, similar to '89. She figures it out, he doesn't "say" it, but confirms it. It's a very similar character arc, with a different ending.

To be fair...i don't think she did...more of a idea that he might be...Alfred let her in..i don't think he wanted to tell her..he was pushed by alfred.

 

[Oldguy]

Damn, I was expecting some of my own medicine, about how it's not the story told, but how it's told.

D'oh I blew it. Durn.

Have fun when the world economy collapses! Yay!

I will, no more debt. Wahoo! Cmon Al Queda..... daddy needs a mortage to go away.

WHAT? Googling....

Hold your tears, mon cherie. He's still alive and kicking. I think you mean Eisner.

Ahahahahaha, made you google! I'm sick aren't I?

Chilling. That's like some kind of...injustice gang!

I get to be the Parademon in the parka!

 

[MatchesMalone]

To be fair...i don't think she did...more of a idea that he might be...Alfred let her in..i don't think he wanted to tell her..he was pushed by alfred.

Vicki took pictures of him at Crime Alley with the roses. She has Arli$$ check on that street corner, and then she finds out his parents were killed there. In the intervening time he's come to her apartment to confess, gotten shot, and mysteriously disappeared. Yeah, I'd put 2 and 2 together myself

 

[Oldguy]

To be fair...i don't think she did...more of a idea that he might be...Alfred let her in..i don't think he wanted to tell her..he was pushed by alfred.

Very true, man I don't miss that incarnation of Alfred at all.

Well yes i want her dead...that sounds horrible doesn't it?

As long as we're talking about Rachel and not Katie, right?

 

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

Vicki took pictures of him at Crime Alley with the roses. She has Arli$$ check on that street corner, and then she finds out his parents were killed there. In the intervening time he's come to her apartment to confess, gotten shot, and mysteriously disappeared. Yeah, I'd put 2 and 2 together myself

well i don't think the pictures would set her off..but maybe the the tray would...but by her reaction,i don't think she thought "Bruce is Batman.

 

[ROBOCOP CPU001]

Very true, man I don't miss that incarnation of Alfred at all.



As long as we're talking about Rachel and not Katie, right?

of cause..