The Dark Knight Rises The 79th TDKR General Discussion & Speculation Thread

[DarthSkywalker]

TDK ending was anything but cliche.

I suggest a larger blu-ray collection or a Netflix account and a library card.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Should have put a instead of a

Yes, of course, I'm just averse to this idea that anything vaguely resembling a conclusion similar to a previous narrative is somehow a failure in terms of storytelling, because whatever the ending is, the characters themselves will have been irrevocably changed to the point where there is no status quo left to reinforce.

For the record, I don't think it'll end with Batman and Gordon. It may end with a thank you though; or just Bruce saying "You're bloody welcome, mate!"

I really hope Bale breaks accent and does just that.

 

[DoomsdayApex]

Yeppers.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

You think the hero taking credit for crimes they didn't commit is original? In a comic book story no less. Seriously?

 

[Nevincer]

Yes, of course, I'm just averse to this idea that anything vaguely resembling a conclusion similar to a previous narrative is somehow a failure in terms of storytelling, because whatever the ending is, the characters themselves will have been irrevocably changed to the point where there is no status quo left to reinforce.

That's fair enough. TDK in spite of what it was ended with a Batman moneyshot, ala the other film, so I'm not disputing that.

Also the of the superhero taking the fall is not an uncommon theme. It is in fact what Spidey has built his career on. The great good ending in general has been done plenty in film as well.

Spidey built his career on being a "menace" which was stemmed by New Yorkers who were averse to vigilantism, not taking the fall for another character's crimes or lying to the public. Completely and utterly different things. Batman already had that whole "menace" image going on preceding TDK, has nothing to do with his actions in that conclusion.

 

[Blue_Scholar]

nvm

 

[Nevincer]

You think the hero taking credit for crimes they didn't commit is original? In a comic book story no less. Seriously?

Can you honestly name a similar incident in a comic book story? Let alone an adaption?

 

[DoomsdayApex]

You think the hero taking credit for crimes they didn't commit is original? In a comic book story no less. Seriously?

And you think an ending involving Batman talking to Gordon on a rooftop is original? Seriously?

Let's see, Spiderman 1-3, X-Men 1-3, The Avengers, Iron Man, The Incredible Hulk, Green Lantern, Batman Begins, Superman Returns, Thor and Captain America didn't.

Only Watchmen did.

Hmmmmmmm.

 

[Blue Sugar]

Of course there are stories out there with similar endings, especially thematically speaking. But for something to be cliche it needs to have been done more than several hundreds of times and on a big level.

I mean if that ending is cliche, then god help us what isn't a cliche? And what do you call an actual cliche ending like the hero saving the day and getting the girl? A super-duper cliche?

Everything has pretty much been done in one way or another, doesn't mean it's a cliche. Execution and context matters too.

 

[Blue Sugar]

And in the context of a summer blockbuster superhero-movie, the ending of TDK is NOT cliche.

 

[Blue_Scholar]

Can you honestly name a similar incident in a comic book story? Let alone an adaption?

Marvel Presents: Jesus Christ?

 

[DarthSkywalker]

That's fair enough. TDK in spite of what it was ended with a Batman moneyshot, ala the other film, so I'm not disputing that.


Spidey built his career on being a "menace" which was stemmed by New Yorkers who were averse to vigilantism, not taking the fall for another character's crimes or lying to the public. Completely and utterly different things. Batman already had that whole "menace" image going on preceding TDK, has nothing to do with his actions in that conclusion.

What happened to the rest of my post? t:

 

[TinkerTailor]

You think the hero taking credit for crimes they didn't commit is original? In a comic book story no less. Seriously?

If you're going to break it down as simply as that then pretty much every film ever made has a cliched ending.

3 amazing films with incredible endings:

Chinatown ends with [BLACKOUT]the bad guy winning.[/BLACKOUT] Cliche.
There Will Be Blood ends with [BLACKOUT]two adversaries fighting before the victor is left alone with his triumphs.[/BLACKOUT] Cliche.
Fargo ends with [BLACKOUT]the plucky underdog vanquishing the bad guy[/BLACKOUT]. Cliche.

There's more to an ending than just that one scene. What's gone before, and how the character's future has changed as a result of the ending has to be taken into account. Gordon's speech is overly portentous, I'll give you that. But if we're going to complain about that in a Chris Nolan film we might as well never go and see one again.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Of course there are stories out there with similar endings, especially thematically speaking. But for something to be cliche it needs to have been done more than several hundreds of times and on a big level.

I mean if that ending is cliche, then god help us what isn't a cliche? And what do you call an actual cliche ending like the hero saving the day and getting the girl? A super-duper cliche?

Everything has pretty much been done in one way or another, doesn't mean it's a cliche. Execution and context matters too.

Memento. t:

And in the context of a summer blockbuster superhero-movie, the ending of TDK is NOT cliche.

And there goes the narrowing of the field.

 

[Reek]

Ive seen a lot of movies where a dude dressed as a bat tackles a dude with...10th degree burns on half his body...then the dude dressed as a bat gets on his harley and drives off.

 

[Norek]

And in the context of a summer blockbuster superhero-movie, the ending of TDK is NOT cliche.

Moreover, in the context of the film itself, the ending is not a cliche.

Cliche is something that's been overused and thus a little less meaningful, and that's not the case with TDK.

 

[DarthSkywalker]

Of course there are stories out there with similar endings, especially thematically speaking. But for something to be cliche it needs to have been done more than several hundreds of times and on a big level.

I mean if that ending is cliche, then god help us what isn't a cliche? And what do you call an actual cliche ending like the hero saving the day and getting the girl? A super-duper cliche?

Everything has pretty much been done in one way or another, doesn't mean it's a cliche. Execution and context matters too.

Memento. t:

And in the context of a summer blockbuster superhero-movie, the ending of TDK is NOT cliche.

And there goes the narrowing of the field.

 

[Nevincer]

What happened to the rest of my post? t:

What happened is I didn't address that part, it wasn't relevant to the point I was making and I felt it had already been handled thus I removed it from the quote. I conceded that on the surface the imagery isn't exactlly original in my response to TinkerTailor, but that's not really relevant considering the debate was on the concept of the TDK ending and what it represented being unoriginal as I recall from your earlier remarks.

 

[Blue Sugar]

The melodramatic speech is quite cliche (still awesome though) and the last money-shot of the hero is cliche (also still awesome though). But that doesn't say anything about how the STORY ends.

In the context of how and where it is told, the story-ending to TDK is not a cliche. Just look at DoomsdayApex post for examples.

 

[TinkerTailor]

Memento. t:

Unreliable narrator throws one last minute twist our way. Done before.

 

[beastmode]

God...I'm tired of this whole "full circle" thing. It, like everything else on this forum, has been taken WAY overboard.

But this will bring conclusion to the NOLANVERSE of Batman and will come full circle! I haven't seen the movie yet but I know this movie will be the best movie known to man. full circle! NOLANVERSE!

 

[Norek]

Unreliable narrator throws one last minute twist our way. Done before.

By that rational, every ending out there is a cliche..

 

[TinkerTailor]

By that rational, every ending out there is a cliche..

Erm... yeah.

If you'd read my previous post along with that one, you'd see that's the point I'm trying to make. By DarthSkywalker's standards any ending, no matter how amazing, could be considered a cliche.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Original Thought Theory, anyone?

 

[Blue Sugar]

Memento. t:



And there goes the narrowing of the field.

It's not as much narrowing the field as putting the field in context, something I think many people miss to do in many instances.

Cliche – A trite or overused expression or idea.

I think we draw our lines of when something becomes overused in way different places. And drawing the line very early means almost everything becomes cliche, which weakens the expression and lessens it's meaning for me.