The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 2

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So does anybody else think they foreshadowed Carlie getting killed off soon in the recent issue?
 
I think Carlie might be the next Jean Dewolff, but I'm not sure if they are going to kill her off.
 
JMS is now apparently lashing against Marvel in regards to Amazing Spider-Man

JMS said:
Sales on The Amazing Spider-Man since my departure. Just sayin'
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Steve Wacker said:
An excellent post, JMS. Out of context, out of date and full of out-of-the-blue mean.

Everyone on ASM currently respects your years on the book (and as editor I’ve said so many times in interviews and in the letter column), but seriously this is about as creepy and low of a move as a former writer can pull on another group of creators (many of whom didn’t have the luxury you had of ducking out of controversy).

Due to the team’s hard work, ASM is still one of the best-selling, best performing comics around. And thanks to them, 130+ (on-time!) issues of ASM have come out since you left — which certainly helps mitigate the softening of the ENTIRE comics market that you’re apparently willing to ignore.

Yes, you are one of the bigger names in the comics industry. Congratulations. You’ve earned the title.

It’s a shame though that the title doesn’t come with more class…just sayin’…
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JMS said:
Nowhere in my post did I say word one about the current creative team. Nowhere in the post was there the sort of personal attack you engage in here. Nowhere do I characterize anyone or impugn their motives or integrity. I was simply passing along raw numbers, which you do not actually refute, you simply yell at me for posting them and call names and engage in other essentially churlish behavior. In regards to ducking out of controversy, I would like to know what that refers to as I have never stepped away from either controversy or sharing my opinion.

I have always made it very clear that when I came aboard ASM I brought Peter and MJ back together because I liked writing them as a married couple. I made equally clear that the decision to unmarry them and, in the same brushstroke, eliminate virtually every story I’d written during those eight years was an editorial mandate, not my choice. I would’ve been happy to continue writing them married until the sun went out. Marvel wanted to unmarry them. That’s your choice, and your right. At no point did I duck out of anything. If you think I did, back it up: what are you referring to?

I posted numbers. Nothing more or less. If those numbers are correct, and again you do nothing to say otherwise…then your reaction is simply mean-spirited diversion. If those numbers are not correct, provide what you consider to be accurate ones. I am more than happy to have them posted here.

In the course of this, I received a friendly, measured note from Dan Slott, who is a terrific writer, who asked if I had any problems with the current creative team. I’ll tell you what I told him: I have no problem with them/him whatsoever. Dan is a terrific writer and is doing great work. I happened to come across this chart, and passed it along. Beginning, middle and end of story.

At NO point did I engage in the kind of attacking, spiteful, mean-spirited characterization you did above. It’s unfortunate that one of Marvel’s editors comports himself in this fashion, but it happens.

If you choose to continue the conversation, please try to do so in a grown-up fashion, as did Dan Slott. You might find it a refreshing change.
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Steve Wacker said:
Starting my weekend off right!

My mistake…Apparently when you wrote “Just saying’…’” you meant “Just sayin’…the books in good shape and I wish the team well.”

JMS, I don’t know you beyond a couple of brusque ‘hello’s, so I don’t have a lot of heat wrapped up in this “fight” as you seem to imagine. Certainly no one’s “yelling” or “calling you names” as you suggest. You posted something passive aggressive at best and it deserves a response. (I agree that I’m bad at passive aggressive, so that’s on me. Clarity is my curse.)

One thing we agree on here is that Dan Slott is a good guy who wants to do well. It was nice he reached out to a guy trying to make the argument the book was tanking. I don’t know that I would have reached out to you privately since A) I hardly know you and B) you posted this publicly.

At the bottom of it all, though, you’ve posted an absolutely incorrect chart that isn’t based on real numbers and leaves out many individual issues to make its “point”. The sales chart you posted is the fictional fantasy fantasy of a blogger who has a massive, medically enhanced hate for the comic and the people at Marvel. In the past has cracked about wanting to “punch Dan Slott in the face” among many other vile– and sometimes violent– remarks about everyone on the comic.

(He VIOLENTLY hates you too, for what it’s worth. And you’ve now fanned his flame something fierce.)

However, in the end, that’s just deranged—though impotent– fan cranking and moaning. More over the top than most, but we’re all used to that and deal with it regularly.

What’s more important is that, as I clearly said in the last post, his numbers are absolutely wrong, out of date and out of context.

You seem to somehow read that as me not refuting the numbers. Let me say it plainly then…I refute the numbers. I even REFUDIATE them. I even REFUDIUDIUDIUDIPUDIATE them. (You are better with words than me, so if there’s something stronger, please use it in the previous sentence.) Hope that clears it up.

Yes, individual sales are on average lower than when you wrote the book. That’s true. You are without a doubt one of the top writers in comics. Once again, I concede that point… so congrats on that. I’ve long said so in the comic and in interviews that we all knew sales were going to go down once a top writer in comics left (especially after such a controversial story like OMD).

So to come in to show off how sales have gone down after you left seems to be needlessly spiking the football after the other team has set up for the next kickoff. You already won the point.

(I will happily write JMS IS ONE OF THE TOP WRITERS IN COMICS on a fan at the next convention if you want. It is just that true!)

BUT…and it’s a big but… we’ve also published over 4 times as many issues of ASM as we would have otherwise in a market that has weakened considerably since you were writing Civil War tie-ins. Amazing Spider-Man is still consistently and safely among the industry’s top sellers.

Since you’ve left, my writers and artists have managed to create the highest selling single issue in 15 years (which was purposefully left off the chart you’re brandishing) and add over 40 collections to the Spider-Man backlist.

That’s important information. And it puts those fake sales numbers you’re crowing about in context.

When the former heavyweight champion writer of a book shows up chiding my book’s sales with a ridiculously unfactual, cartoonish chart it sends a message to everyone that the book is somehow doing worse than when you were on it. You can see some of the responses here for just how well that worked out for you. If you say, you didn’t mean it that way, that’s great.

However, if trying to show up the current people on the book WASN’T your intention, I can’t imagine what it was. Just sayin’…

You are correct that I do take it personally when other creators knock the work my team does on any of my books (except Daredevil…swing away there. Those guys are jerks.). I stand by the notion that posting a comic’s sales after you’ve left is a creepy thing to do.

Just as a mental test, try imagining if I did the obvious thing here and posted…say…current Superman and Wonder Woman sales now that you left the book.

That would be buttheaded of me. And I try not to be buttheaded.

I did love your ASM run, though (except the Gwen thing…ewww). Especially loved Doom at the airport and the way you wrote Pete and MJ as a couple. (I also thought it was cool that we used you in Thor. They didn’t use Slott in the Spidey musical…which I believe was a huge mistake!)

Scarlet Spider #1 on sale January 4!
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Dan Slott said:
Hugs for everyone. *hugs*
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Mark Waid said:
Dick move, Joe. Flat out, a dick move, and you know it. Either your point was to show people how awesome you were, or to show people how things have deteriorated since your absence. There’s no other way to interpret your post. None. Are you really that hard up for approbation and fan love that you can’t rise above that sort of ****? I understand Wacker’s frustration. Maybe he overreacted a bit, in the way good friends DO react when they perceive their friends and employees being attacked by a bitter man with a bottomless ego, but you made the first move, and it was a dick move. And if anyone doubted you were doing it for anything other than informational purposes, adding “Just sayin’” was the snarktacular icing on the cake. No one says “Just sayin’” unless they’re doing exactly the opposite of “Just sayin’

Half an hour later, still fuming at JMS’s ****** passive-aggressiveness. I should probably go walk it off. Maybe with a long walk. A long, dull, pointless, boring walk. Across America.

That I won’t finish.

xxx
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Heh some people can't handle facts very well. Kudos to Slott for being able to put up with those pricks and still be able to pull out a good story on level with JMS's greatness. I seriously wish I could ignore some of that poor history that has been created.

Where was this posted? I'd like to take a look at this chart they are talking about.
 
found it...what is funny is this chart shows the big spikes for Slott's work, and it ends on 632, JMS did not make any mention of Slott's current run at all, which I bet he has liked.
 
Seriously, Marvel spent so much time burying JMS good marriage stories, as well as the Other powers...but now we finally get to see Peter and MJ close again, as well as Kaine exhibiting the Other powers. Marvel may not want to admit it, but the facts speak for themselves.
 
God I want to get involved in this conversation but I'm going to back off. There was enough negativity among the pros, save Dan. Good job goes to him for being an adult in the situation.
 
I think that both sides are clearly wrong here. JMS is being quite classless with this but I feel that Wacker is completely oblivious to why Marvel is on the decline (it's more than just the declining comic book market IMO).
 
JMS is being a total assh*** here. He should have known that chart would be perceived as a total knock on the ASM guys that followed him. Why did he even posting that to begin with? I'm not Wacker's biggest fan in the world but he had every right firing back. He has every right to protect his guys. And Waid....he is awesome and should definitely be given the Avengers for that.
 
Woah...I almost thought that was fake. I don't know, it's just weird to see the guys who work on comics get peeved and bicker like the way some of us do on the net. It's strangely humanizing I guess...I've gotta finish reading these to see what's going on. All I can say is ouch on Waid's last point. I'm sorry, but I laughed, and laughed hard.
 
Wow, it's odd to see them argue like this. JMS did instigate it though. I mean, that chart would piss anybody involved off, so I don't blame them.
 
I'm a fan of JMS's run with JRJR, but I think he should have known better than to bring that chart up.
 
Thanks for posting that hippie hunter. I saw Waid saying weird stuff on Twitter and now it makes a lot of sense seeing those posts. JMS got a pretty brutal dig in there and Waid pretty much owned the crap out of him :oldrazz:

The comic market is really different these days then they were when JMS was doing his Spider-Man run. A lot of what Marvel is going through right now isn't really any fault of any of the creators, or their decisions. A lot of the problem lies more with their marketing.

It's getting tough to stick with a lot of these Marvel comics when they are double shipping their 2.99 books and not budging on their 3.99 price points. There are creators who are willing to take pay cuts so that their books just stay at 2.99. I'm dropping Venom and ASM in February because of this over shipping nonsense. It's just not affordable.
 
I just read ASM # 675...and it looks like the book is back to being The Amazing Carlie Cooper. :oldrazz:

Ugh. How many times has Peter fought the Vulture? Like over a hundred? Something like that? And he needed Carlie Cooper to give him advice on how to defeat his followers? Yikes. I was actually having a good time with the book and then that happened and I was left going like this... :doh:
 
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