The Amazing Spider-Man v.2 - Part 2

[Splat]

JMS is a guy, that if he never wrote another Marvel book, I wouldn't be sad.

Agreed, he's comes off as such a pompous ass.

 

[Themanofbat]

Thats sad that he had to engage in this kind of behavior especially since marvel is about to finish publishing his "The Twelve" series.

Watch those get delayed for another 3 years....lol

 

[hippie_hunter]

JMS is a guy, that if he never wrote another Marvel book, I wouldn't be sad.

I would. I really loved his runs on Amazing Spider-Man and Thor. And I think he could have delivered a really solid run on Fantastic Four if it weren't for Civil War having Reed Richards supporting McCarthyism.

 

[kguillou]

I keep forgetting he wrote F4 as well. I think his best run by far was Thor. He did a really bang up on job revamping that character and told some great stories. In fact, I think Thor #600 was probably THE best centennial issue of both Marvel and DC of the last decade. There I said it.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Anyways, I read the latest issue of Amazing Spider-Man, god they just really need to get rid of Carlie Cooper. I hate her with all my hate. They better not have her get back together with Peter.

 

[SpideyInATree]

Anyways, I read the latest issue of Amazing Spider-Man, god they just really need to get rid of Carlie Cooper. I hate her with all my hate. They better not have her get back together with Peter.

I wouldn't say I hate her. I just don't like the way she's being written. Spider-Man has fought Vulture dozens of times and needed Carlie to remind him about how his tech works? It took me right out of the story. I won't be sticking around too much longer to find out if they do get back together or not. I'm not supporting Marvel stuffing that .1 stuff down our throats.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

I would. I really loved his runs on Amazing Spider-Man and Thor. And I think he could have delivered a really solid run on Fantastic Four if it weren't for Civil War having Reed Richards supporting McCarthyism.

Did you enjoy just his run with JRJR or his run that whent thru Sins Past, Civil War, etc?

 

[dkamphaus43]

Anyways, I read the latest issue of Amazing Spider-Man, god they just really need to get rid of Carlie Cooper. I hate her with all my hate. They better not have her get back together with Peter.

I actually think Carlie is okay as a character, and having her as Peter's ally in the police force whom he has an uneasy alliance with will probably make her much more interesting. But as Peter's girlfriend though, she just didn't cut it. They simply just don't have that type of chemistry.

I really doubt they'll have her get back together with Peter though. I just don't see how that can happen in any sensible way now. Even though she'll most likely remain a member of the supporting cast for a while, the last few issues of spider-island have pretty much been Marvel's admission of defeat in regard to trying to force her onto us as Peter's perfect match.

 

[hippie_hunter]

Did you enjoy just his run with JRJR or his run that whent thru Sins Past, Civil War, etc?

I enjoy the parts of his run that weren't editorially mandated (Sins Past and One More Day in particular). Joe Quesada really tarnished JMS' run on Amazing Spider-Man. But the rest of his run I really, really liked. And I really hate it that he was forced off the book as opposed to letting his run continue on naturally.

 

[JewishHobbit]

It was JMS's run that brought me back onboard after a sketchy reading career following the undoing of much of the Clone Saga. I liked Sins Past save that Gwen had consensual sex with Norman. I'd rather he have raped her and I think it could have improved the quality of the story. And even OMD started decently until that final issue or two. I think Straczynski did a great job with the book and handled the character and his cast (Aunt May and MJ anyway) better than any of the stuff I've read since (including his Avengers and guest appearances in other titles).


And for the record... his Midnight Nation was phenominal!! I self bound it I liked it so much

 

[hippie_hunter]

I liked Sins Past save that Gwen had consensual sex with Norman. I'd rather he have raped her and I think it could have improved the quality of the story.

I think the quality of the story would have been much better if they went with JMS' original idea: Peter being the father.

And even OMD started decently until that final issue or two. I think Straczynski did a great job with the book and handled the character

Take a guess who actually wrote the final issues. And I agree, OMD, wasn't horrible for the first two issues. You can kinda tell that Joe Quesada took over the story for the end.

 

[Themanofbat]

But Quesada HAD to make the changes for a couple of reasons...

1) the BND team already had stories written and drawn based on the new staus quo... Joe's ending did not fit with what was going to happen next... so JMS' changes to the original plan had put months of various creators' work in a position of being worthless...

2) if Joe's ending had gone through, then ALL Spider-Man books since ASM #98 would have not existed. Everybody complains about some 20 years worth of stories not counting, even though they DO, then I wonder how they would have felt if 35 years of stories REALLY NOT COUNTING.... everything from ASM #99 onward, including all Marvel Team-Up stories, all Spectacular Spider-Man stories, all Web of Spider-Man books, everything would have been one massive "what if" story, and then the story of Peter Parker would have continued from that point on....

Is that what all the JQ haters/JMS lovers really wanted?

I know I certainly would have hated that.

And to stress a point in the "feud" thread hippy... JMS had no issues breaking up the marriage... in fact, he wanted to write OMD his way, which would have eliminated the marriage as well as Sins Past... but he didn't get what he wanted, and now he's tagged along with arguably one of the top 5 worst Spider-Man stories ever told...

 

[hippie_hunter]

His version of OMD would have eliminated the marriage because Marvel was forcing him to eliminate the marriage to begin with. And yeah, I think JMS' way would have been better because while it would have made everything a big what if, it would have at least made sense as opposed to what Marvel editorial did.

 

[JewishHobbit]

I think the quality of the story would have been much better if they went with JMS' original idea: Peter being the father.

Oh, I agree. I really liked that idea but we got magnetism babies instead.

2) if Joe's ending had gone through, then ALL Spider-Man books since ASM #98 would have not existed. Everybody complains about some 20 years worth of stories not counting, even though they DO, then I wonder how they would have felt if 35 years of stories REALLY NOT COUNTING.... everything from ASM #99 onward, including all Marvel Team-Up stories, all Spectacular Spider-Man stories, all Web of Spider-Man books, everything would have been one massive "what if" story, and then the story of Peter Parker would have continued from that point on....

Is that what all the JQ haters/JMS lovers really wanted?

I know I certainly would have hated that.

Once they done away with the 20 years they might as well have just gone back 35 in my opinion. Why insult and snub one generation of readers when you can go ahead and get the rest of them in one fell swoop? Honestly, we'd be less divided if they HAD done that and maybe they would have fixed it by now. So yeah, should have been 35 in my opinion.

 

[JewishHobbit]

His version of OMD would have eliminated the marriage because Marvel was forcing him to eliminate the marriage to begin with. And yeah, I think JMS' way would have been better because while it would have made everything a big what if, it would have at least made sense as opposed to what Marvel editorial did.

I agree actually. I don't think either of them were good ideas but if you were going to go with one I'd have been more curious about Straczynski's take... and I have greater confidense that he'd have written a better plot to ease into it. I think I heard somewhere that he had it all mapped out how it'd make sense from then to now and all that so I would have been curious to hear how the story was supposed to go.

 

[Themanofbat]

But the 20 years of marital stories at least COUNT in Marvel continuity regardless of the opinions of certain readers... those stories ARE now cannon as a common-law couple...

JMS' version would have ALL those stories not count AT ALL.

I know opinions will vary, but I'd rather have a slight variation on what wen on rather than a complete elimination.

 

[Spider-ManHero12]

I enjoy the parts of his run that weren't editorially mandated (Sins Past and One More Day in particular). Joe Quesada really tarnished JMS' run on Amazing Spider-Man. But the rest of his run I really, really liked. And I really hate it that he was forced off the book as opposed to letting his run continue on naturally.

The best stuff from JMS came before Sins Past, IMO.

 

[hippie_hunter]

But the 20 years of marital stories at least COUNT in Marvel continuity regardless of the opinions of certain readers... those stories ARE now cannon as a common-law couple...

JMS' version would have ALL those stories not count AT ALL.

I know opinions will vary, but I'd rather have a slight variation on what wen on rather than a complete elimination.

OMIT was written three years later explaining what had happened. But before then we were left with three years of utter confusion of how this all worked. I would have rather not dealt with any of the confusion.

 

[hippie_hunter]

The best stuff from JMS came before Sins Past, IMO.

The best stuff did come before Sins Past. But I really liked the New Avengerss and Skin Deep arcs with Deodato and I think that JMS did a good job with the Civil War/Back in Black stuff that was thrust onto him.

 

[Themanofbat]

OMIT was written three years later explaining what had happened. But before then we were left with three years of utter confusion of how this all worked. I would have rather not dealt with any of the confusion.

I agree.

However, at least we were given a reason that works... even if it was lame.

Comics are not always golden... there's some real stinkeroo explanations out there for stuff that shouldn't happen (retcon punch? ), and OMIT ranks up there, but at least the story works within the confines of the changes that occured after OMD...

 

[SpideyInATree]

The problem with OMIT is that it shouldn't have been done because they should have written a story that made it make sense in the first place.

After OMD I just kind of used logic and common sense to explain how things worked. If you went under the impression that the marriage never happened and that all the previous continuity was told with them "dating" and not married it made it a whole lot easier.

BND was fun and it was great seeing the different writers and artists rotate. There were some clunker stories in the mix, just like with anybody elses Spider-Man run, and there were some really great stories. I'm glad they ended BND when they did and let it go back to just one writer with a rotating art team.

However, these days...Slott's run is great...but I'm not going to continue to support this horrible .1 garbage that Marvel is beating it's readers over the head with. It was kind of cool last year when they did it and if they would have just done it for a few months and then dropped it then all would have been well. Apparently some genius there at Marvel thinks, "Hey, we can just add .1 to something and we'll sell more books!" .1 is really reminding me of the 90's right now. When Marvel made almost every issue foil embossed, chromium, hologram, see through covers. They are going to burn out their readers. I don't want to drop Spider-Man or Venom but Marvel is forcing my hand. I can't afford to buy all those books and I may come back around and just buy it in trade...but right now I'm done with the book until Marvel realizes how lame they are...which may be never.

 

[JewishHobbit]

The problem with OMIT is that it shouldn't have been done because they should have written a story that made it make sense in the first place.

After OMD I just kind of used logic and common sense to explain how things worked. If you went under the impression that the marriage never happened and that all the previous continuity was told with them "dating" and not married it made it a whole lot easier.

BND was fun and it was great seeing the different writers and artists rotate. There were some clunker stories in the mix, just like with anybody elses Spider-Man run, and there were some really great stories. I'm glad they ended BND when they did and let it go back to just one writer with a rotating art team.

However, these days...Slott's run is great...but I'm not going to continue to support this horrible .1 garbage that Marvel is beating it's readers over the head with. It was kind of cool last year when they did it and if they would have just done it for a few months and then dropped it then all would have been well. Apparently some genius there at Marvel thinks, "Hey, we can just add .1 to something and we'll sell more books!" .1 is really reminding me of the 90's right now. When Marvel made almost every issue foil embossed, chromium, hologram, see through covers. They are going to burn out their readers. I don't want to drop Spider-Man or Venom but Marvel is forcing my hand. I can't afford to buy all those books and I may come back around and just buy it in trade...but right now I'm done with the book until Marvel realizes how lame they are...which may be never.

I've dropped a lot of books for similar reasons... I've had to. The genre I stick to the most is X-Men and that's where the double shippings have been hit hardest.To keep with that I have to drop other things. Avengers is getting big on the double shippings come February so more things had to be dropped to make room for those. I finally decided that Venom will be the only non-X-Men or Avenger book that I stick with because I like Remender... low and behind, 6-shippings and one of them costing an extra buck in February. Now I'm debating on just dropping Venom as well. If it weren't for February being a 5-week month it'd already be dropped.

Then you add the double shippings and the .1's together (which are often necessary to the ongoing plot) and Marvel's just raping its customers.

If I drop Venom my next hope is to wait out Bendis and then drop the entire Avengers line when he leaves. That'll leave me buying just the X-line of Marvel again, which I'm getting more and more okay with since it's getting better and Marvel's getting dumber. That plus about 7 or 8 DC titles will be just fine for me.

*edit... there's also Defenders for Iron Fist but it's still too early to tell how that's going to go. We might still get a year-long Defenders event in March.

 

[JewishHobbit]

But the 20 years of marital stories at least COUNT in Marvel continuity regardless of the opinions of certain readers... those stories ARE now cannon as a common-law couple...

JMS' version would have ALL those stories not count AT ALL.

I know opinions will vary, but I'd rather have a slight variation on what wen on rather than a complete elimination.

The change from OMD was drastic enough that it might as well have erased it all in my opinion. Yes, they eventually EVENTUALLY explained the variations post-OMD (after how many issues?) but for that time, and at the time of the change, we were left with an alternate reality that made no sense. I'd rather just get a full fledged alternate reality and call it done. Bring back Gwen. Bring back Uncle Ben. Bring back whoever, change whoever, none of it would have mattered anyway. Peter could have been a clone the whole time for all I care. Reset it all and the statement "this needed to happen to allow for stories we couldn't tell before" could actually have some merit.

Honestly, OMD and resetting continuing to the 90-something are equal parts bad but one would have had a better outcome. Or, you know, they could have just killed MJ off and dodged the whole mess, but why go the sensable route?

 

[Themanofbat]

Venom 13 to 13.4 is one big self-contained story, so why not simply skip Venom in February?

 

[JewishHobbit]

Venom 13 to 13.4 is one big self-contained story, so why not simply skip Venom in February?

Because supposedly this will have an impact on the ongoing Venom series. Chances are I'll skim every issue at the shop and pick them up over several slower weeks but I've not decided yet. A part of me just wants to drop as many Marvel titles as possible and that gives me a reason.