The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - Part 1

Discussion in 'The Avengers Sequels' started by Thread Manager, Jan 14, 2013.

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  1. Crimson King

    Crimson King Superhero Novelista

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    Just read this on Bleeding Cool:

    That's...surprising. I wonder if it's more about contract negotiations than anything else.
     
    #151
  2. I'm Venom

    I'm Venom "Hi, honey..."

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    I'd go with making Ultron some piece of rogue Stark tech, myself. Aside from not knowing whether the movie Ant-Man is going to be Eric O'Grady, Hank Pym, or Scott Lang, an artificially intelligent robot seems more like something Stark would build rather than someone like Pym, who's a biochemist. Just because Stan Lee didn't care/realize how specialized the sciences were forty years ago doesn't mean the movies shouldn't try to do better.
     
    #152
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2013
  3. VictorShade

    VictorShade Well-Known Member

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    I don't like it either.

    (See Name)
     
    #153
  4. cherokeesam

    cherokeesam SHIELD Director Coulson

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    Stark and Pym are two very different types of scientists. Stark is all about hardware, while Pym is more of a biochemist. I'd link his Pym Particles to a biotech form of nanotechnology that he develops after studying insects and microorganisms. And then make Ultron from that --- have him be more of a biotech construct than a nuts-and-bolts walking tin can.
     
    #154
  5. ThePhantasm

    ThePhantasm 2 sexy 4 a stormtrooper

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    That's confusing. So Stark might not be in A2? What are they hinting at with the whole "that's the wrong question?"
     
    #155
  6. Mr. Dent

    Mr. Dent Well-Known Member

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    I think when the guy said it's the wrong question, he means we shouldn't be asking whether he's in the film or not but how big a role/how relavent he will actually be to the plot of the film. Tony might be incapacitated throughout the course of the film...we know Thanos is involved so there you go.
     
    #156
  7. spideymouse

    spideymouse Well-Known Member

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    You don't have to use the impersonal "people" when you're directing something towards me. I can take it. And of course I realize that this isn't a direct translation from the comics. But I think you miss the point.

    I and others have been arguing that from a storytelling perspective, it is important to keep in mind that Ant-Man indeed will be joining the MCU, which means that the opportunity is there to be true to the characters both as they have been written in the comics as well as how they have been/will be portrayed onscreen, and that is the better option.

    We've seen the Stark-technology-turned-against-him storyline a few times already (and we'll see what happens in IM3). So a Stark-invents-Ultron/JARVIS-and-then-Ultron-turns-against-him story would probably be easy to do; I'm sure we can imagine him dealing with the guilt of seeing his technology turning into a vehicle of destruction, and his determination to right the wrong. I bet we can all picture it. Probably because we've seen it before. Twice (maybe three times).

    Now picture instead a brilliant scientist, similar to Stark in intelligence and ambition, but wholly dissimilar to Stark in his lifestyle and attitude towards violence and war. Picture a gentle man who seeks the scientific means to resolve conflict and achieve peace through the ideals of pacifism and collaboration. Imagine his hubris as he fathers an intelligence based on his own brain pattern, foolishly intending to create the ultimate peace-keeping machine, and imagine his horror in seeing his creation mirroring the broken, violent humanity within himself, a monster bent on destroying the very thing he was looking to accomplish. And imagine that driving him into a deep sense of self-doubt and depression, not determination. This isn't a battle between Stark and his guilt--this is a battle between Pym and his very soul.

    Now imagine an Ant-Man character who could have been that man but instead kind of has to sit around because it was convenient to have Stark create him. You're stuck making a movie about a Pym who creates shrinking/growing technology and doesn't have much else to do, and you're stuck making the movie about Lang instead because nothing is really driving Pym's character. In that scenario, I think you've missed a huge opportunity.
     
    #157
  8. cherokeesam

    cherokeesam SHIELD Director Coulson

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    I think you've nailed it.
    Conjecture, of course, so I won't spoiler-tag it, but maybe what happens is this:

    *End of IM3: Tony test-flies his new Deep Space Suit. For whatever reason.....mysterious signal from space, possible new alien threat, he's going looking for Peter Quill for whatever reason --- anything. Turns out that Thanos is luring him into a trap, and captures him.

    *End of GOTG: After all the events of GOTG, in which the gang presumably takes on Thanos unsuccessfully, they learn that he has an earthling captive: Tony Stark. Hell, just to mix it up even further: maybe he's even mind-controlled and enslaved to Thanos' will. Or maybe not --- that's just bonus stuff.

    *Avengers 2: Tony Stark *is* out of commission. He spends, say, the first two reels as Thanos' captive, and is rarely if ever seen. That leaves the Avengers and the Guardians to team up and not only take down Thanos, but also the mission becomes much more "personal" (remember that quote....?), because they're trying to save their friend. Third reel features Tony back in action, and the whole gang gets to whale away on bad ol' Thanos.
     
    #158
  9. I'm Venom

    I'm Venom "Hi, honey..."

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    Perhaps the government tapped Stark to make an army of Iron Men in a new take on the Super Soldier program...using some of Banner's research, of course...naturally, one prototype goes mad.
     
    #159
  10. Hawkingbird

    Hawkingbird I want to be Kate Bishop

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    That makes the entire MMU based around Tony though.
     
    #160
  11. Mr. Dent

    Mr. Dent Well-Known Member

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    This seems like a plausible route. I'm thinking that if the Infinity Gauntlet is involved though, Tony will be "killed" by Thanos at the beginning of A2 which starts out with Tony in space. Here's what I'm thinking:

    -End of IM3: Sometime after he defeats the Mandarin, Tony is compelled to go into space after what he saw in the Avengers and the events that transpire on Earth in IM3. Basically, he wants time to get away from it all and remembers what both frightened and fascinated him in the Avengers, and decides to tackle it head first. Following a signal he discovers something related to the cosmic Marvel U (maybe another Chitauri ship, Thanos' rock, the Guardians, who knows)

    -End of GotG: A scene involving Tony that picks up from where the IM3 scene ends. Tony is discovered by Thanos somehow who has possession of the Infinity Gauntlet now after the events of GotG.

    -Beginning of A2: Tony is killed by Thanos using the Infinity Gauntlet in a sequence which involves the Guardians. SHIELD and the others will also be alerted by the fact Tony has been missing for a while.

    In this scenario IM3's end credits scene chronologically takes place after GotG, though we won't realize it at the time. The Guardians will also be intimately involved in the plot of A2 right off the bat if they're present when Tony is "killed" and will have a connection to the Avengers. It also works as a direct sequel to the Avengers (as in you don't have to watch the previous phase 2 films) because it would be easy for the audience to accept that Tony went into space after witnessing it (Tony, not the audience) in the first Avengers. It would also pick up where the first Avengers left off with teasing the "death" of Tony only to actually do it in the sequel. Sounds very Joss as well.
     
    #161
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2013
  12. I'm Venom

    I'm Venom "Hi, honey..."

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    They defeated Loki and the Chitauri. They'll drive back Thanos and save the universe. I can see Ultron being created in the film passively, and then all of a sudden, he strikes out of nowhere in the third Avengers.
     
    #162
  13. cherokeesam

    cherokeesam SHIELD Director Coulson

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    No, it doesn't. Just makes Tony the prime mover for Phase II, just as Fury was the prime mover for Phase I. And yet Fury didn't hog all the facetime --- not by a long, long, long shot.
     
    #163
  14. OB12

    OB12 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. We know that Ant-Man is happening and if all of the things that typically drive the Pym character are stripped from him what will be left with? All of these individual films inform and impact the larger MCU, so without Pym's classic storyline I struggle to come up with anything that Pym will bring to the table.
     
    #164
  15. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Well-Known Member

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    That bold part is spot-on. The way Tony endeared himself to the team at the end of Avengers makes it all the more personal.
     
    #165
  16. Whiskey Tango

    Whiskey Tango Well-Known Member

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    He introduced them to shawarma. How can they not love him?
     
    #166
  17. Mr. Dent

    Mr. Dent Well-Known Member

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    Mayimbe posted a pretty big hint.

    https://twitter.com/elmayimbe/status/296764930168877057
    I'm thinking it really might be Death of Cap. As I posted earlier that logo looks like it's from Steve Rogers outfit when Bucky was posing as Cap. I think one of those comics is also a Death of Cap variant (and we know it can't be any of the X-Men, Spider-Man, or FF titles posted there). And, of course, Death of Cap issues and GN were sold out. He also posted this:

    https://twitter.com/elmayimbe/status/296734462509735936
    Is it possible that both Tony and Cap will be caput come A2? Or maybe the movie begins with Tony's death (as some of us have speculated) and ends with Cap's?
     
    #167
  18. Chewy

    Chewy REDACTED

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    Yeah maybe they can kill off Hulk and Thor too, make the movie a full-on C-list bonanza
     
    #168
  19. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Well-Known Member

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    LOL.....

    Ya, killin' Cap isn't happening. Dunno why anyone would even think otherwise.
     
    #169
  20. Mr. Dent

    Mr. Dent Well-Known Member

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    Just saying most of the hints point toward Death of Cap.

    They're going to be fighting Thanos, heroes have to die. Not saying that they're going to stay dead of course.
     
    #170
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2013
  21. Joeyjojo72

    Joeyjojo72 Well-Known Member

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    Im hoping that TA2 ends with Bruce Banner in a space ship on a one-way trip into deep space. Sets up Planet Hulk and then A3 (half WWH and half ___). A billion dollars should get her done.
     
    #171
  22. Whiskey Tango

    Whiskey Tango Well-Known Member

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    Easy enough to borrow or steal Tony's Jarvis tech and pattern it after his own brainwaves. One insertion into a custom built indestructible nanotech chassis later and voila!

    Not that that's particularly clever of course. I did always like the idea that Tony based Jarvis personality on the Stark's family butler. But mostly I just like saying 'indestructible nanotech chassis'
     
    #172
  23. Rock Sexton

    Rock Sexton Well-Known Member

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    No.

    Cap just got started in the MCU. The idea is ludicrous.
     
    #173
  24. hawkeye27

    hawkeye27 Well-Known Member

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    I don't know how I feel about WWH. But with Thanos coming soon, Marvel can't be afraid to kill some heroes. Thanos is dangerous and ruthless and won't hesitate to kill even Captain America.

    Plus Death of Captain America makes a little sense with Bucky coming back in CA:TWS.
     
    #174
  25. Chewy

    Chewy REDACTED

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    I know the BuckyCap is recent but it's really no different than RhodeyIronMan or ThunderstrikeThor or whatever else - a short-lived hiatus from the main character that only works because readers are so used to reading about the big icon whose title it was for hundreds of issues.

    That doesn't really translate to screen. Maybe if this was like James Bond and they were on their 25th film they'd consider killing off Cap and replacing him with Cap-lite.
     
    #175
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