Age of Ultron The Avengers 2! The Official News and Speculation Thread - - - - - Part 51

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LOVE these kinds of tv spots with the 3d words in them
[YT]hoRFemtsQO4[/YT]

I also do I just hate how sometimes it shows spoilers like in Iron Man 3, the tv spot after the movie showed scenes like Pepper kicking the armour mid air at the end
 
What do you guys about think Vision's deviation in the movie from the comic book canon? Was it really necessary? Wouldn't be much cooler if he was initially against the avengers and then turned on Ultron? Why didn't they go for that route?
 
What do you guys about think Vision's deviation in the movie from the comic book canon? Was it really necessary? Wouldn't be much cooler if he was initially against the avengers and then turned on Ultron? Why didn't they go for that route?
I liked it. I'm more curious if we see the Vision/Wanda relationship in the future over the differences in his origin.
 
What do you guys about think Vision's deviation in the movie from the comic book canon? Was it really necessary? Wouldn't be much cooler if he was initially against the avengers and then turned on Ultron? Why didn't they go for that route?

I don't think it was a deviation, but they had to shortcut things for time sake. They substituted using JARVIS instead of using Wonder Man's brain waves. He does try to attack Thor at first, but I think with JARVIS' AI, he realizes who and what he is.

The movie was pretty loaded as is, to have a huge battle with Vision, and then have another where he changes sides, would take too much time to tell.
 
There's me, saying what you said I didn't say.



So yeah, you're "wrong" for selectively reading my posts. I don't understand why Marvel making good decisions in some cases has any bearing on the existence of "bad" decisions they've made and the effects of those decisions. They made TFA better and they made Thor 2/IM2/AoU worse. They put the success of the overall franchise over the quality of any given movie. If they didn't, they'd probably be out of a job.

What's complicated?



Well, that's more of the straw man. The problem doesn't boil down to that.

My problem with Guardians of the Galaxy, for instance, with that "two minute scene" with Thanos and Ronan is that it makes the characters laughable, even after that scene, and thus less interesting to me for the duration of the MCU. For me, whenever Thanos shows up I roll my eyes. My kids don't see the problem, because they don't expect (or notice) most social dynamics. My girlfriend doesn't see it as a problem, because to her these are cartoon characters, that can't be taken seriously anyway. Only me and my comic book nerd friends see it as a problem because we see these characters on the level with Darth Vader, Hal and Hannibal Lecter. To see them handled with all the weight and subtlety of Snidely Whiplash and Mandark the Magnificent, well, it's a bit sad, really.

There are other problems that come up with the checklist, from decreasing the hero's agency and relevance in his own story to simply requiring plot points that are less interesting. These are appreciable problems. Whether you as an individual appreciate them or not is your own affair, of course.



But we do know several things about what go on behind closed doors. We have dozens of first hand accounts and we can see the effect and compare it with the effects of other studios. I think that's what's really interesting about your point of view, you seem to be really selective in what you accept as reality, even in the face of documentation.

I think Gunn is playing it smart. He knows when you give in you get more power later. That's probably how he got to the point where they backed off the Thanos requirement. He also has a little more lee way in that he's out in space away from everyone. Even the way he publicly goes on record with the moderate response whenever there's a controversy on this issue is brilliant politics. He probably means every word, too, but it's also perfect hollywood political maneuvering.

I also reject any "either/or" false dichotomy along with the ad hominem and strawman. Marvel can improve their framework's flexibility without having to choose between running off talented directors and "just do what you want."



If mods give you warnings for nitpicking a film, then maybe I'm on the wrong forum. :cwink:

All movie studios stifle creativity. Not supposedly, it's literally their job. In order to further the idea that they don't you've been using rhetoric that ignores a lot of stuff that's well known. Yes Picard is out to lunch... who cares? We can still talk about what's wrong with Marvel movies. It doesn't mean there's nothing right with them, far from it, but, as I said before, good is the enemy of great.

I think therein lies the problem. The fandom is content with just "good" and doesn't demand great. This is something I've only seen with this franchise. Its like people are under a spell that prevents them from acknowledging legitimate problems with the series and they get defensive when you bring that to their attention.

On Facebook I've read some nasty things said about Whedon for speaking out against the studio. I'm talking absurd statements. My fav was a guy who said "That hack Whedon doesn't deserve the right to make Marvel movies. Why did they even hire him???"

Its like this studio elicits an ugly side from its fans. The worst part is when they advocate for blatant missteps made by Marvel out of unrequited support.

Orson Welles predicted the integrity of film as an art form would meet its demise at the hands of studio heads. Here we are 70 years after Magnificent Ambersons and the majority of the internet would rather blast a man for voicing his battles with the suits he made billions for than support him in his valid airing of grievances.

Wells was clearly psychic.

This is why even though I'm completely bummed that Wright didn't get to do Ant-Man, I'm also glad he didn't because the last thing they deserve is for the fandom to do what its doing now with Whedon in giving all the credit to the studio for a great film like Avengers and saying "We don't need Whedon or any auteur director. All we need is Feige and pointless scenes that connect these movies."

The best movies in this series have been great for their ability to explore character and the hero's plight. Fury's Avengers Initiative, Thanos' scene with Ronan, the mention of Stephen Strange by Sitwell...I could care less about any of that.

The journey Stark underwent from the first act to the last in Iron Man, Cap's struggle to justify his role in today's world in TWS, Quill's relationship with his mother in GOTG...that's what stays with me. And that pathos carefully built for those characters wasn't possible without great directors at the helm.

Producers just want more Thanos rammed into movies he doesn't need to be in.
 
I think therein lies the problem. The fandom is content with just "good" and doesn't demand great. This is something I've only seen with this franchise. Its like people are under a spell that prevents them from acknowledging legitimate problems with the series and they get defensive when you bring that to their attention.

On Facebook I've read some nasty things said about Whedon for speaking out against the studio. I'm talking absurd statements. My fav was a guy who said "That hack Whedon doesn't deserve the right to make Marvel movies. Why did they even hire him???"

Its like this studio elicits an ugly side from its fans. The worst part is when they advocate for blatant missteps made by Marvel out of unrequited support.

Orson Welles predicted the integrity of film as an art form would meet its demise at the hands of studio heads. Here we are 70 years after Magnificent Ambersons and the majority of the internet would rather blast a man for voicing his battles with the suits he made billions for than support him in his valid airing of grievances.

Wells was clearly psychic.

This is why even though I'm completely bummed that Wright didn't get to do Ant-Man, I'm also glad he didn't because the last thing they deserve is for the fandom to do what its doing now with Whedon in giving all the credit to the studio for a great film like Avengers and saying "We don't need Whedon or any auteur director. All we need is Feige and pointless scenes that connect these movies."

The best movies in this series have been great for their ability to explore character and the hero's plight. Fury's Avengers Initiative, Thanos' scene with Ronan, the mention of Stephen Strange by Sitwell...I could care less about any of that.

The journey Stark underwent from the first act to the last in Iron Man, Cap's struggle to justify his role in today's world in TWS, Quill's relationship with his mother in GOTG...that's what stays with me. And that pathos carefully built for those characters wasn't possible without great directors at the helm.

Producers just want more Thanos rammed into movies he doesn't need to be in.

The real issue is people like you who think everything needs to always be perfect or else it sucks or is somehow not worthy of your time, and that you are somehow deserving of great films, you don't even deserve bad films as far as I'm concerned. Some of us understand it is hard making films in general let alone running an entire cinematic universe that is unprecedented and now everyone wants to copy. Not everything will be great or work perfectly, you have some issues? fine! Others may not share the same issues or simply see the bigger picture. And when everything works and hits on all cylinders you get a great movie. Orson Wells was right but he's been right for decades.....and we have had a lot of great films anyway. Also Marvel studios is unique from most studios in the fact that the overall story of their universe is being directed by them, the directors are just there to fill in the blanks.
 
@PS, Once again gross generalizations on your part. No one on these boards has defended the idiotic statements on Twitter and Facebook against Joss. You're also 100% wrong in that it's limited to this franchise. Remember when RT had to shut down the user comments, because a few idiots were blasting people that gave some bad reviews to TDKR? There are idiots in every fan base.

As I mentioned the only reason people get defensive with you, is you state opinion as fact and then you blow people off that post opposing views because they don't understand things as you do, rather than having a legitimate difference of opinion.

Thanos was an after credit scene, so you can't say he was jammed in there. If you're talking about the infinity stones, that was a central plot point that described how Ultron is created, how Scarlet Witch is able to read minds/show future events, and how Vision is created and becomes the protector of the stone.
 
I liked it. I'm more curious if we see the Vision/Wanda relationship in the future over the differences in his origin.

Agreed, you can see that Wanda has already taking a liking to him. She glanced his way when Vision was talking with Thor at Avengers Tower outside, and the way Vision flew in and rescued her before the destruction of Sokovia.
 
The real issue is people like you who think everything needs to always be perfect or else it sucks or is somehow not worthy of your time, and that you are somehow deserving of great films, you don't even deserve bad films as far as I'm concerned. Some of us understand it is hard making films in general let alone running an entire cinematic universe that is unprecedented and now everyone wants to copy. Not everything will be great or work perfectly, you have some issues? fine! Others may not share the same issues or simply see the bigger picture. And when everything works and hits on all cylinders you get a great movie. Orson Wells was right but he's been right for decades.....and we have had a lot of great films anyway. Also Marvel studios is unique from most studios in the fact that the overall story of their universe is being directed by them, the directors are just there to fill in the blanks.

Oh man.....this horse is so dead it ended up in a can for my dog yesterday. I think the last thing we need to do is get overly frustrated because a movie isn't "great" (which is a subjective opinion anyway). IMO superhero movies are almost, can almost "never" vie for such things as "the greatest or one of the greatest movies ever made".

Let's use The Godfather (I and II) as examples because they have already been put forward as "great" movies. In my opinion, that's a fair thing to say. Those movies are in the discussion. If we went to a superhero movie with the pacing of TG, most of us would be up in arms. What I'm trying to say is "Let SH films stand on their own as examples of their own genre". I don't think you are going to see a SH movie that really has the emotional impact of a Godfather, Sophie's Choice, or, my own personal favorite, Once Upon a Time in America. Why? Because on some level, it's divorced from reality (and I don't call that a bad thing). These types of movies are just different. The same would go for cartoons. On some level, they're just not as real to us. We generally don't put cartoons in best movie of the year no matter how much we enjoy them. They're different.

That being said, I thought AoU was a really fun, enjoyable, well made movie. Could Joss have made it better? Probably yes. Could he have made it worse? Again, I think, the answer is yes. Might Kevin had played a role in it being not as good as it might have been? Very possibly so and possibly he contributed it to being better than it would have been without his input. But, all of that is going to be subjective to the individual. 10 of us could watch 10 different cuts of the same movie and have 10 different opinions of which was best. It's not a black and white answer.

My opinion is simply this in the case of MCU; the producers have the long term vision. They are responsible for that. If the director is deviating, they need to step in. What they shouldn't do (or if they do, they should be very, very careful) is try to make a movie they hired someone else to make. They should not be saying "Well, you can have this scene or that scene but you can't have them both". Again, I say that because by the nature of saying this, it is an admission that the director hasn't strayed from the overall path.

Finally, I think the less we say things like "You think that" or "You just want" or things of that nature, the better off we'll all be.
 
If only he were succinct and didn't repeat the same points over and over again. Wadayagonnado.
 
Dude is like a broken record funny thing is look at his ratings for the mcu films most are 8 and up lol
 
Dude is like a broken record funny thing is look at his ratings for the mcu films most are 8 and up lol

I was thinking the same thing! It doesn't make any sense that he talks about the quality of the movies going down, but his ratings are all high except perhaps IM3.
 
I was thinking the same thing! It doesn't make any sense that he talks about the quality of the movies going down, but his ratings are all high except perhaps IM3.

Which is the movie that by all accounts Marvel let their writers/director run wild with. :funny:
 
Which is the movie that by all accounts Marvel let their writers/director run wild with. :funny:

And, to be fair, a lot of people seemed to like (not me so much), but, yeah, I get the irony.
 
If only he were succinct and didn't repeat the same points over and over again. Wadayagonnado.
That's basically why I've stopped paying attention to him on this topic. He's like a dog with a bone at this point and just can't drop it.
 
@PS, Once again gross generalizations on your part. No one on these boards has defended the idiotic statements on Twitter and Facebook against Joss. You're also 100% wrong in that it's limited to this franchise. Remember when RT had to shut down the user comments, because a few idiots were blasting people that gave some bad reviews to TDKR? There are idiots in every fan base.

As I mentioned the only reason people get defensive with you, is you state opinion as fact and then you blow people off that post opposing views because they don't understand things as you do, rather than having a legitimate difference of opinion.

Thanos was an after credit scene, so you can't say he was jammed in there. If you're talking about the infinity stones, that was a central plot point that described how Ultron is created, how Scarlet Witch is able to read minds/show future events, and how Vision is created and becomes the protector of the stone.
There's not ONE movie out there in ANY genre that will be PERFECT to EVERYONE.
NOW I'm hearing that it's FEMINISTS that were harassing Joss on twitter. I don't know what to think about people now a days. WHY harass someone over FANTASY?
 
What I'm trying to say is "Let SH films stand on their own as examples of their own genre". I don't think you are going to see a SH movie that really has the emotional impact of a Godfather, Sophie's Choice, or, my own personal favorite, Once Upon a Time in America. Why? Because on some level, it's divorced from reality (and I don't call that a bad thing). These types of movies are just different. The same would go for cartoons. On some level, they're just not as real to us. We generally don't put cartoons in best movie of the year no matter how much we enjoy them. They're different.

The Dark Knight.
 
The Dark Knight.

TDK was IMO definitely one of the better ones and I thought it was an outstanding piece of film-making. I thought some of the cinematography was astounding in places. I saw it in true IMAX and often use it in my theater reviews as a baseline of what many movies should look like. Heath Ledger just blew my socks off with his performance. It just came completely out of left field and "I didn't see that coming". :cwink: I'm a big Gary Oldman fan (LOVED him in Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy and many, many others) so that was a plus for me.

Even so, I still don't know that it would really be considered one of the greats. A lot of people didn't even like it much (go figure). I dunno, there's something just different (to me anyway) about this genre of movie. Maybe someday, I'll see one that, without doubt, crosses over. Not sure I have just yet and, believe me, I'm a HUGE MCU/Comic Book/Fantasy/Sci-Fi) fan. I can't explain clearly why (I don't think I'd do a very good job of explaining it), but I think Sci-Fi and Fantasy have more of an opportunity to make that jump.

My two cents.
 
TDK was IMO definitely one of the better ones and I thought it was an outstanding piece of film-making. I thought some of the cinematography was astounding in places. I saw it in true IMAX and often use it in my theater reviews as a baseline of what many movies should look like. Heath Ledger just blew my socks off with his performance. It just came completely out of left field and "I didn't see that coming". :cwink: I'm a big Gary Oldman fan (LOVED him in Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy and many, many others) so that was a plus for me.

Even so, I still don't know that it would really be considered one of the greats. A lot of people didn't even like it much (go figure). I dunno, there's something just different (to me anyway) about this genre of movie. Maybe someday, I'll see one that, without doubt, crosses over. Not sure I have just yet and, believe me, I'm a HUGE MCU/Comic Book/Fantasy/Sci-Fi) fan. I can't explain clearly why (I don't think I'd do a very good job of explaining it), but I think Sci-Fi and Fantasy have more of an opportunity to make that jump.

My two cents.

TDK will definitely be remembered as one of the greats. It was the CBM that transcended CBMs.

I think Marvel got the closest with TWS but obviously Avengers is also a thing to behold in being the first true cinematic crossover and a great film at that.
 
TDK will definitely be remembered as one of the greats.

By some. I'm a big Christopher Nolan fan and like the fact that he uses the equipment he does to make his movies. I know it makes his job more difficult, but the texture of the film shows it's worth the effort (IMO).

Whenever I talk cinematography, there's always a chance that I'll bring up Martin Scorcese and Hugo. What a beautifully 3d filmed movie. Google James Cameron's comments about it. He referred to it as the best use of 3D he had seen.

EDIT: http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/hugo-martin-scorsese-james-cameron-261940
 
Let's use The Godfather as examples because they have already been put forward as "great" movies.

it insists upon itself :o
lol

TDK will definitely be remembered as one of the greats. It was the CBM that transcended CBMs.

TDK "transcends" CBM's because it was barely a CBM
someone I saw called it basically "Heat with costumes" and I thought that was extremely accurate
it's a crime thriller, that just so happens to have Batman and Joker in it

so it's a tossup, do you say "f the comics, let's make a (insert genre)"
or do you say, "let's try to give it this type of flavor, while still hitting some of the iconic comic moments"
TWS did the latter, while TDK did the former
and they worked equally as well, imo
 
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